Food Plots New plot cleared today
- Thread starter Mr. Hawk
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That sounds like a killer project! Getting a dozer in to clear an old log landing is the perfect start, but since those spots are often compacted and nutrient-depleted, your follow-up is everything.
The Foundation: Soil Health
Since this is a brand-new field, you're starting from zero on soil health. Don't skip these steps:
Soil Test is Mandatory: You need to know exactly what you're working with.
1. The Lime Situation: If you can get a truck to the spot, Ag lime is the way to go. It works significantly better than pelletized lime. "Pel lime" is really just for a quick jump start; Ag lime is for long-term pH correction.
Feed the Soil: Follow your soil sample results strictly for fertilizer and micronutrients.
2. The "Durana" Upgrade
Frost seeding in February is a solid plan, but if you want this plot to be elite, rethink the Ladino. Ladino is cheaper for a reason, and frankly, it doesn't compare to Durana clover.
Go with Durana and add in Chicory and Alfalfa.
Don't Fear Alfalfa: A lot of guys will tell you that you "can't grow it," but honestly, most people who say that have two brain cells and one is currently giving the other CPR. If you prep the soil, it'll grow.
3. Don't Build a "Lazy Man's" Plot
I've seen a lot of piss-poor clover plots the last couple of years, and it's usually the result of pure, unadulterated ignorance.
The biggest mistake—and frankly, it's embarrassing to see—is guys who think they can just throw clover down and be done. Come fall, you HAVE to add in your grains. Clover goes dormant in the cold. If you aren't overseeding grains, you're basically just growing a patch of dirt for the deer to look at while they walk to your neighbor's property to actually eat. Watching someone put in the work to clear a spot and then fail to add winter grains is like watching a guy buy a Ferrari and then try to run it on vegetable oil—it's just stupid.
4. Maintenance
With a good wet spring and drill seeding at 1.5x the recommended rate, you'll be set. You can spray in the summer to keep it clean, and next spring, just crimp or spray to manage the grains from the winter.
Do it right the first time so you don't end up with one of those "charity cases" of a food plot that looks like a weed patch by November.
The Foundation: Soil Health
Since this is a brand-new field, you're starting from zero on soil health. Don't skip these steps:
Soil Test is Mandatory: You need to know exactly what you're working with.
1. The Lime Situation: If you can get a truck to the spot, Ag lime is the way to go. It works significantly better than pelletized lime. "Pel lime" is really just for a quick jump start; Ag lime is for long-term pH correction.
Feed the Soil: Follow your soil sample results strictly for fertilizer and micronutrients.
2. The "Durana" Upgrade
Frost seeding in February is a solid plan, but if you want this plot to be elite, rethink the Ladino. Ladino is cheaper for a reason, and frankly, it doesn't compare to Durana clover.
Go with Durana and add in Chicory and Alfalfa.
Don't Fear Alfalfa: A lot of guys will tell you that you "can't grow it," but honestly, most people who say that have two brain cells and one is currently giving the other CPR. If you prep the soil, it'll grow.
3. Don't Build a "Lazy Man's" Plot
I've seen a lot of piss-poor clover plots the last couple of years, and it's usually the result of pure, unadulterated ignorance.
The biggest mistake—and frankly, it's embarrassing to see—is guys who think they can just throw clover down and be done. Come fall, you HAVE to add in your grains. Clover goes dormant in the cold. If you aren't overseeding grains, you're basically just growing a patch of dirt for the deer to look at while they walk to your neighbor's property to actually eat. Watching someone put in the work to clear a spot and then fail to add winter grains is like watching a guy buy a Ferrari and then try to run it on vegetable oil—it's just stupid.
4. Maintenance
With a good wet spring and drill seeding at 1.5x the recommended rate, you'll be set. You can spray in the summer to keep it clean, and next spring, just crimp or spray to manage the grains from the winter.
Do it right the first time so you don't end up with one of those "charity cases" of a food plot that looks like a weed patch by November.
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DoubleRidge
Well-Known Member
Nice, looking good. We also have some new clover plots to establish and others to expand. Research blending different clovers which mature at different times, also different clovers tollerate drought conditions better than others. We are reading on it but hadnt pulled the trigger yet....several options.
Go ahead and pull a soil test. If you skip anything dont skip lime. And be thinking about areas around the plot where you will get good sunlight then you could add some tree plantings. We planted dunstan chestnut down one side of a plot and sawtooth oak around another. Recently added a few chicksaw plum and hope to get some pear trees planted on the property in the future....also consider allowing a border around the edge to grow into a shrub or native grass type habitat...edge feather the border verses having a perfectly clean edge to open timber...in other words add diversity wherever possible...enjoy the process!
Go ahead and pull a soil test. If you skip anything dont skip lime. And be thinking about areas around the plot where you will get good sunlight then you could add some tree plantings. We planted dunstan chestnut down one side of a plot and sawtooth oak around another. Recently added a few chicksaw plum and hope to get some pear trees planted on the property in the future....also consider allowing a border around the edge to grow into a shrub or native grass type habitat...edge feather the border verses having a perfectly clean edge to open timber...in other words add diversity wherever possible...enjoy the process!
Spot on advice! You're speaking my language with the edge feathering. A perfectly clean line between a plot and open timber is basically a desert for a deer; breaking that up with native shrubs or grasses creates that "soft edge" where they actually feel safe enough to step out during daylight.
And you can't go wrong with tree plantings. Adding Dunstans and Sawtooths is like putting a buffet right next to the salad bar—diversity is the name of the game if you want to hold deer year-round.
Quick question for the OP: How big is this plot actually? The acreage is going to dictate a lot of your strategy. If it's a smaller "kill plot," you have to be even more aggressive with the Durana and Winter Grains because they'll try to lip-clip it down to the dirt the second it pops. If it's a larger destination plot, you've got more room to play with those different clover maturities and drought-tolerant blends.
Either way, like you said, don't skip the lime and don't be the guy with the "dormant dirt patch" in November because you forgot the grains.
Enjoy the process—nothing beats seeing a dozer-cleared landing turn into a honey hole!
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
Looks great!
Cant see the near side of the plot in the pic, but the wide open hardwoods adjacent to the plot on the far side is bothersome to me. I'd prefer to have some dense cover close to the plot to encourage daylight use. Perhaps those woods are wide open because they were just logged and will grow up with some successional growth next spring?
Cant see the near side of the plot in the pic, but the wide open hardwoods adjacent to the plot on the far side is bothersome to me. I'd prefer to have some dense cover close to the plot to encourage daylight use. Perhaps those woods are wide open because they were just logged and will grow up with some successional growth next spring?
Needs TSI & Fire without question.
bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
I would remove that wall of tree debris on the side unless it is there to block something.
That is a 100% fact. Unless you're trying to specifically funnel deer into a single opening, get that trash out of there!
Leaving a massive wall of dozer debris right on the edge of a fresh plot is basically just building a luxury hotel for predators. You're essentially inviting every coyote and bobcat in the county to set up a blind and wait for a fawn to step out. It's a "snack bar with a view" for them, and a death trap for your deer.
Plus, a giant pile of rotting logs and dirt is just a massive eyesore that eats up valuable planting space. Less clutter, more clover. Clean that edge up, feather it back properly like we talked about, and don't give the predators a front-row seat to the show.
If you leave that wall there, you might as well put up a sign that says "Free Lunch" for the local coyote pack.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Agree with all of the above, especially "whatever you do, don't skimp on lime," as well as "feather the edge." I did some comparative analysis of hunter collected buck observations from food plots, comparing food plots with edges that are open hardwoods versus thick regrowth. The plots directly adjacent to thick regrowth far outstrip the open hardwood-edged plots by a wide margin.
What to plant is more difficult. How much native food is available? How many acres of food plot do you have? I tend to break the trend towards perennials because I have limited food plot acreage and I want to provide maximum food volume. Annuals produce more food than perennials (at the price of higher planting and maintenance costs). I try to make up for a lack of perennial plantings by maintaining as much of my property in natural forages as possible. But again, it all comes to site-specific conditions.
What to plant is more difficult. How much native food is available? How many acres of food plot do you have? I tend to break the trend towards perennials because I have limited food plot acreage and I want to provide maximum food volume. Annuals produce more food than perennials (at the price of higher planting and maintenance costs). I try to make up for a lack of perennial plantings by maintaining as much of my property in natural forages as possible. But again, it all comes to site-specific conditions.
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bloodtrailing
Well-Known Member
Agree with BSK. Soil prep with lime.
I'm about to have a couple cleared myself and planned on frost seeding as well if they get to it in time. Definitely lime it!
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Ah - went through that a few years ago - about 15 acres of it. Yes, lime tons! Fertilize also, but lime for sure. First year ours did ok. Second year they started to take off and they have been rocking ever since. Some are nothing but perennial clovers, others are annual plantings and some have a mixture of both (annual plots, but in portions we've planted fruit or chestnut trees, we plant perennials around those trees).
About half of ours are directly adjacent to thick cover and half aren't. Well the half that aren't kind of are - when the fields were made, everything was just pushed off to the sides, so their are mounds and stumps where our drill can't get. So, there's about 10-15 yards of thick saplings and tall grass. They love that stuff. BUT we plan to run fires around those perimeters and push all that crap further off the fields and smooth out. Edge feathering done purposefully or accident is great!
About half of ours are directly adjacent to thick cover and half aren't. Well the half that aren't kind of are - when the fields were made, everything was just pushed off to the sides, so their are mounds and stumps where our drill can't get. So, there's about 10-15 yards of thick saplings and tall grass. They love that stuff. BUT we plan to run fires around those perimeters and push all that crap further off the fields and smooth out. Edge feathering done purposefully or accident is great!
Might look into replacing your topsoil with some soil building crops for the first year or two. Expecting clover to root well and survive in dead hard clay is a big ask and I think you'll be disappointed. The dozer stripped your living topsoil. That mat of living, organic, decomposing plant matter is what clover needs to root into and feed off of. IMO you'll have much better results long term if you build soil first before starting the clover. Clover will explode and flourish in soil where its roots can creep.
Popcorn
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^^This^^
Soil building crops can be cover, food and matter producing all at the same time and can include annual clovers plus you get to plant spring crops and fall crops that will produce year round.
Then when your soil is ready plant your clover blend of cool season, regular season and heat tolerant clovers with a nurse crop of wheat or cereal rye that will help your young clover establish before the hoards of deer hammer it.
BSK
Well-Known Member
One of mine, from dozer clearing (in the mud of winter), to a productive plot. First pic, March of 2021. last pic, April of 2024:
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BSK
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Listen carefully to anything Popcorn and Megalomaniac say about soil-building and green manure. I've learned a ton from them.
When I started my soil-building, I was dealing with some really thin, acidic, rocky clay soils. My choices were a bit limited. But over time, we've gotten it done. I made some unorthodox choices, but my soil was a bit unique.
When I started my soil-building, I was dealing with some really thin, acidic, rocky clay soils. My choices were a bit limited. But over time, we've gotten it done. I made some unorthodox choices, but my soil was a bit unique.
I've got some pretty dense cover in the other end, here is a pic from other direction I took today. That cedar thicket runs a good way down a big gully
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megalomaniac
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Thats perfect!!! Totally fine to have one end off the plot open woods, as long as you have some good cover close.
I think that is going to be a great plot, especially since the hardwoods seem to be on the uphill side and the plot is on somewhat of a saddle...
Both feeding and you should also get bucks cruising thru looking for does.
Lay the cedar down and it would help with growing cover and browse adjacent.
skipperbrown
Well-Known Member
Go ahead and pull your soil sample now and get the lime scheduled. It's going to be expensive to get the soil where you want it and it's ok to work on it as your budget allows.
That's a great looking woods plot! I would burn all your trees in a big pile then disk in the ashes. Then lime and use a clover blend in the areas that are going to get the most shade and then annuals in the areas where the most sunlight will hit. Buckwheat is a good soil builder for new plot areas.
This is exactly it! You're talking about high-level soil management now, not just "throwing seeds and praying."
You hit the nail on the head with the Green Cover Seed approach. Blends will out-produce a monoculture every single day of the week. It's like offering the deer a full Thanksgiving spread versus a bowl of plain oatmeal—deer certainly know the difference. If the soil is healthy, the food tastes better, and the protein levels actually hit where they need to. Utilization cages don't lie; if your neighbor's plot looks like a golf course and yours is getting hammered, you know who's winning the dirt war.
My routine is pretty straightforward: Drill seed in the spring, crimp immediately after, and drill seed again in the fall. That's it. Stop disturbing the soil! Every time some guy gets "tillage happy," he's just killing his biology and releasing all that moisture. Keeping that soil covered and feeding it year-round is the secret sauce.
And I love the point about the nurse crop. Throwing in some wheat or cereal rye is like hiring a bodyguard for your young clover. It gives the "hoards" something to chew on while the clover gets its legs under it. Without that nurse crop, those deer will lip-clip your expensive clover into extinction before it even has a chance to say "hello."
Bottom line: If you treat your soil like a living organism instead of a dirt floor, the results will speak for themselves.
I can't get a lime Truck to this spot, it's an old log landing with access by an old logging road, but can get a tractor to it. So I was thinking I'd start with frost seeding a blend of clovers towards mid to late February and then in the fall go with a blend of wheat and cereal rye to start building soil, thoughts?
Popcorn
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Here is your opportunity to "kill 3 birds with one stone!
Mix wheat, pelletized lime and your clover seed all in the spreader! This is what I do in hidey hole plots!
Mix by pouring into the spreader proportionally. Start with a half bag of Pell lime so to get moving before the seed get flowing.
Spread at a half rate and cover the ground twice in opposing directions and you will achieve good even distribution of all!
You get it all done now and your clover will benefit rather than languishing!
Mix wheat, pelletized lime and your clover seed all in the spreader! This is what I do in hidey hole plots!
Mix by pouring into the spreader proportionally. Start with a half bag of Pell lime so to get moving before the seed get flowing.
Spread at a half rate and cover the ground twice in opposing directions and you will achieve good even distribution of all!
You get it all done now and your clover will benefit rather than languishing!
Would you do wheat this time of year? I've always done it in the fall.
Popcorn
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I do wheat any time, especially when I need it to protect clover.
The rule about planting wheat in the fall is from row croppers. When planted / started in the fall winter weather will cause wheat to tiller, dividing one seed into up to 7 seed head bearing stalks. Most cereal grains have this feature but wheat is most pronounced and I think oats is the least pronounced.
A little thatch will help hide it from birds. It will germinate in mid to late March.
Would Oats be a good option as well?
Popcorn
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Oats are a good choice but some varieties struggle with cold temps. If not wheat I would definitely use cereal rye!
kevin mays
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I frost seeded this plot this morning at daylight it was 22 degrees with Durana
I cleared this two acres in the fall and planted
wheat
oats
cereal rye
Austrian winter peas
Durana clover
Arrowleaf clover
Crimson clover
I pellet limes at 2000lb per acre
I didn't pull a soil sample as I've never pulled one in east tn that didn't say start at least 1 ton per acre
It was hell
I'm gonna pull a soil sample as soon as it gets dry
It's gonna say add 1 ton per acre
It sits between 3ac standing corn on one side 7 acres of standing corn on the other and lined with trees on each side
