new bucks pic heavy

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hunter3405

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Columbia, Tn. USA
checked the camera today and got pics of these guys. How old do you think they are and what score? I am trying to figure out aging and scoring buck.

I really want to know how to keep them around too, these are the biggest bucks I have seen out there ever


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They look like solid 2.5 year old deer. The second pic, buck to the left looks like he may make 90-100 inch? Hard to guess them right now. Looks like some good ones to keep around if you can.

Cool pics
 
I was not far off, I thought 2 years old. Most of these guys will get a free pass this year. We are trying to manage the land to promote bigger bucks.
Now what should I do to keep these guys around? I have food plots going in over the next few weekends.
 
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hunter3405 said:
Now what should I do to keep these guys around? I have food plots going in over the next few weekends.

All the pictured bucks appear to be 2 1/2 with gross scores ranging from 80-100.

Unfortunately, there is no guaranteed way of keeping those bucks on your hunting land. In fact, I'll bet some will leave as velvet sheds. However, you will also probably gain new bucks at the same time. Hopefully it won't be a "net loss" situation.

The only thing you can do is try to provide as much of everything deer want and need, and highest on that list--especially come fall--is sanctuary cover: areas where they are safe from human predators.
 
hunter3405 said:
Most of these guys will get a free pass this year. We are trying to manage the land to promote bigger bucks.

Would you be thrilled to kill one of these bucks? I ask because I want to make sure you haven't set your management goals at some arbitrary level because "That's what everybody else does." Buck age management should be set at a level that will provide enjoyment with the harvest, not neccessarily at some preset level that others recommend.

Now if killing one of those bucks WON'T make you happy, then by all means give them a pass.
 
BSK said:
hunter3405 said:
Most of these guys will get a free pass this year. We are trying to manage the land to promote bigger bucks.

Would you be thrilled to kill one of these bucks? I ask because I want to make sure you haven't set your management goals at some arbitrary level because "That's what everybody else does." Buck age management should be set at a level that will provide enjoyment with the harvest, not neccessarily at some preset level that others recommend.

Now if killing one of those bucks WON'T make you happy, then by all means give them a pass.

killing a buck like that would make me very happy, but I want to see our population grow and meet potential. So I will say maybe one of them would go down if they came past but I want to get BIG deer for future years.
 
hunter3405 said:
BSK said:
hunter3405 said:
Most of these guys will get a free pass this year. We are trying to manage the land to promote bigger bucks.

Would you be thrilled to kill one of these bucks? I ask because I want to make sure you haven't set your management goals at some arbitrary level because "That's what everybody else does." Buck age management should be set at a level that will provide enjoyment with the harvest, not neccessarily at some preset level that others recommend.

Now if killing one of those bucks WON'T make you happy, then by all means give them a pass.

killing a buck like that would make me very happy, but I want to see our population grow and meet potential. So I will say maybe one of them would go down if they came past but I want to get BIG deer for future years.

Hunter3405,

Having worked with lots of groups first developing QDM programs, one of the things I stress is creating "realistic goals," and not only realistic in what can be produced, but also realistic in what's going to be harvested. Too often I see groups "shoot for the moon" right off the bat, setting their goals at 3 1/2+ bucks or even mature bucks (4 1/2+). Now growing those age bucks may be realistic on the property, but growing 3 1/2+ buck (or mature bucks) and seeing/killing them can be two completely different things. Hunting techniques that have served hunters well in seeing/killing does and yearling bucks may not be the same techniques best suited for seeing/killing older bucks. Older bucks, especially those 3 1/2+ are whole different creatures. If hunters aren't prepared to make that jump, it can lead to a lot of frustration.

Of the few QDM "failures" I've seen, the most common cause was hunters setting their buck harvest goals too high. They could produce those age bucks, but they couldn't kill them frequently enough to make the hunters happy.

Personally, I would recommend getting some 2 1/2 year-old bucks under your belt. Once 2 1/2 year-old bucks no longer thrill you or challenge you enough, then move your standards a step higher--to 3 1/2+ year-old bucks. While you are hunting 2 1/2 year-old bucks, your skill set will be increasing, teaching you techniques necessary to seeing and killing older bucks. This will help tremendously in making the jump to only hunting 3 1/2+ bucks.

Surprisingly, just managing for 2 1/2 year-old bucks will produce some bucks older than that, and hunters will end up killing a few. Many years ago I started a QDM program on my own property with the simple buck harvest rule of "no yearlings." Any buck 2 1/2+ was open for harvest. This system has served us very well, with the property eventually holding a few mature bucks. Some of the hunters now hold out for 3 1/2+ bucks even though the buck limit is still "no yearlings." And mature bucks are being killed every year. Simply taking the harvest pressure off yearlings (the dumbest age-class of adult buck) allows bucks to learn and get some experience evading human hunters. Once a fair number of bucks make it to 2 1/2, many will survive the hunting season and advance in age.
 
What I'm getting at hunter3405 is keep the fun in your management program. Don't set goals so high that successes are few and far between just for the ultimate goal of producing a rare monster buck.

Everyone is built differently. Several hunters that post on this Forum have no problems going 5 years without killing a buck. They have their standards and nothing less is acceptable, no matter how long they have to wait. Others will feel differently. I would never go that long between buck kills and still enjoy the hunting. To each their own.

In addition, I also want to get the point across that killing 2 1/2 year-old bucks is still Quality Deer Management (QDM), if that's what you're group is trying to practice. One of the definitions of QDM is "the restraint in harvest of yearling bucks and some 2 1/2 year-olds." Notice there is nothing in that definition about mature bucks. I can guarantee you that killing some 2 1/2 year-old bucks won't "ruin" a program hoping to produce older bucks than 2 1/2. Hunters won't be able to wipe-out the 2 1/2 year-old buck population. 2 1/2s will survive and advance in age. At the same time, hunters will have the opportunity to see and kill older bucks than 2 1/2 even if the limit is only 2 1/2.
 
BSK said:
"One of the definitions of QDM is "the restraint in harvest of yearling bucks and some 2 1/2 year-olds."

That is where the QDMA lost me. If only they added the word "over" to that sentence, then I would totally agree with them.
 
Speaking of realistic goals, one factor I believe that's often overlooked is the typical range of a rutting buck. Even if you have 500 acres, the 3 1/2-yr-old bucks that survive in "your" hunting area may be contributed to more by what's happening in the 5,000 areas surrounding your hunting area than on your hunting area itself.

BSK said:
hunter3405 said:
BSK said:
hunter3405 said:
We are trying to manage the land to promote bigger bucks.
Would you be thrilled to kill one of these bucks? . . . . .
killing a buck like that would make me very happy . . . . . . .
Having worked with lots of groups first developing QDM programs, one of the things I stress is creating "realistic goals," . . . . .
Personally, I would recommend getting some 2 1/2 year-old bucks under your belt. Once 2 1/2 year-old bucks no longer thrill you or challenge you enough, then move your standards a step higher--to 3 1/2+ year-old bucks.
I agree, but would add much of this success equation has to do with how you adjust your "mindset" and how much patience you have in general. Not to mention, such things as peer pressure and whether or not you feel the need to "prove" anything to anyone other than yourself. There are some people who have no desire to take any bucks younger than 3 1/2 even when they first begin deer hunting. Some have to develop this mindset. Some already have much patience, others may never develop enough.

But if you have the mindset and the patience, the best way to learn to harvest 3 1/2-yr-old bucks is to take absolutely take no 2 1/2-yr-old bucks. If you want to step that up to mature bucks 4 1/2 & older, the best way is simply decide that's what you're after, and realize if you take one at 3 1/2, you are usually reducing your opportunity this year and next for a 4 1/2 or older.

But that said, any younger buck you shoot will not get any older, so you're shooting yourself in the foot anytime you say your goal is 3 1/2 or older, but you decide to take a 2 1/2. Few guarantees in life, but there are probabilities that a 2 1/2 roaming "your" neck of the woods is likely to present again next year should he survive. Your choice as to whether you have "some" chance of that happening or "no chance" of that happening.

There is also the issue of older bucks commonly trailing younger bucks. Anytime you decide to take a particular buck, you may never know what may have been trailing along just a few minutes behind him. Hunters are often very close to taking the buck they want, but by settling on something less, they never realize how close they came.

So to add to that "realistic" mindset, you cannot settle for something less without greatly compromising both your present and future opportunity on your prior goal, i.e. having a goal of a 3 1/2 but settling for a 2 1/2.

Be sure you've asked yourself, "Is this really MY goal?"

My personal "mindset" is at a point where I see mature does as better "trophies" than young bucks, and I believe they're better tablefare. So I just enjoy watching and learning from the bucks, and every once in a while, one comes along that's what I'm after. :) More important to me, my hunting is more for the "purpose" of hunting, than any "goal" of having to kill a particular deer to have a successful hunt. Some days, some years are simply better than others. My "mindset" is to enjoy them all.
 
I VERY MUCH disagree Wes. The idea that the best way to kill 3 1/2 year-old bucks is to hold out for them just doesn't hold water in real-world situations. I've seen clubs do that very thing and fail miserably. The reason for their failure was not shooting 2 1/2 year-old bucks, it was the hunters' unwillingness to learn the skill set necessary to put themselves in the position to kill 3 1/2 year-old bucks. In addition, I see landowners/clubs set a limit of 2 1/2+ year-old bucks yet they do kill 3 1/2 and even 4 1/2+ bucks.

As long as yearling bucks are passed, bucks older than 2 1/2 will exist. What determines whether bucks older than 2 1/2 get killed is the hunters' skill set.

Besides, if a hunter would be thrilled with a nice 2 1/2 year-old buck why in the world would you try to convince them to pass that thrill up? Honestly, I can't understand that at all. Hunting is supposed to be fun.
 
hunter3405,
Before your answers are lost in the "jungle" of tech-talk from Wes, BGG, and BSK, let me give you some "stump-sitter" advice from a "Real Deer Hunters" perspective.
I COMPLETELY agree with BSK's advice on having realistic goals and how difficult it is to kill the more mature bucks (truth is-it is almost ALWAYS the fact that the buck makes a mistake).

When you talk to the other members in the group, STRESS to them the importance of taking good field notes and scouting observations. That EVERYONE should do this and use the information COLLECTIVELY. Try to detail EVERYTHING. It will eventually make you ALL better hunters.

102
 

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