Natural mortality rates

[BSK]

I had a 7.5 year this year in the mountains and killed a 6.5 last season in the same location...I found a dead 7 year old two years ago...I will have at least three 6 year olds this year.

I finally got my first 7 1/2 year-old on camera this year. And that's after literally millions of trail-cam pics taken in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

 

[wobblegobble]

I finally got my first 7 1/2 year-old on camera this year. And that's after literally millions of trail-cam pics taken in ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

I have a lot of older deer due most in our area are Trophy hunters. However, many are the genetically weak deer due to trophy hunters lol

 

[mike243]

Shot a buck that had a puncher wound through the throat that came out between its shoulder blades had to be 12" and was infected, always wondered if the 300wm hadn't killed it if the infection would have

 

[BSK]

I have a lot of older deer due most in our area are Trophy hunters. However, many are the genetically weak deer due to trophy hunters lol

I work on properties that are thousands and thousands of acres under "mature buck only" management. More bucks are dying of old age on these properties than by hunters. Getting bucks to 5 1/2, no problem. Yet still, only a few bucks making it to 6 1/2 and none making it to 7 1/2.

 

[TNTreeman]

I passed on a great 14 pt deer twice opening day ( rifle) a couple yrs ago. I was after another deer and at that time was only allowed 1. Saw it again the day after Christmas and shot it bc it could barely walk. It was missing about 3 inches of its back leg from the hoof and jaw was broken. Infection had set in and I couldn't even eat it. Zero meat along backbone and hams. This same deer looked great in mid November . Taxidermist aged it at 6.5. Still not totally sure what happened to the old guy.

 

[arkwaterfowler]

This is a great read. I hunt farm country in Montgomery county and was under the impression that if I let a 3.5 year old walk I would have a good shot at him later. Even in farm country I think a lot of bucks move or die before 4.5. i Hunt this 550 acre property alone and out of the hundreds of bucks seen in the last 15 seasons, me and the girls have only killed four 4.5 year old bucks. The two killed early in muzzleloader weighed 190 dressed. The two killed in rifle weighed about 155 dressed. Literally three weeks of rutting lost that weight.

 

[BSK]

...me and the girls have only killed four 4.5 year old bucks. The two killed early in muzzleloader weighed 190 dressed. The two killed in rifle weighed about 155 dressed. Literally three weeks of rutting lost that weight.

In the 6 weeks of primary rutting, it's not uncommon for older bucks to lose 30% of their body weight. That doesn't sound that dramatic until you realize that's a buck live-weighing 200 lbs at the beginning of the rut only weighing 160 lbs six weeks later. That's a HUGE difference.

The below pictured buck is a stud mature buck I had on my place in 2017. Knowing the deer in the area, I believe he weighed at least 220 lbs on the hoof when the picture was taken in mid-October. I ended up killing him at the very end of the season, on Dec. 31, very post-rut. He only live-weighed 175 pounds by then.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

I wonder how much difference it makes on age when it's a high fence operation and death by vehicles is taken out of the equation? Is it a negligible difference in the age of the bucks/deer may live to?

 

[BSK]

I wonder how much difference it makes on age when it's a high fence operation and death by vehicles is taken out of the equation? Is it a negligible difference in the age of the bucks/deer may live to?

Negligible? No. I've worked in high-fences in hillier terrain and their age structure is a bit older. I don't think it's cars. I think it's lack of free-ranging dogs, and lower coyote populations.

However, the biggest problem inside high-fences is the mortality of bucks due to fighting. Unfenced, bucks can just leave the area under intense social pressure. Inside the fence, they fight to the death. I've seen shockingly high fighting mortality inside high-fences.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

Negligible? No. I've worked in high-fences in hillier terrain and their age structure is a bit older. I don't think it's cars. I think it's lack of free-ranging dogs, and lower coyote populations.

However, the biggest problem inside high-fences is the mortality of bucks do to fighting. Unfenced, bucks can just leave the area under intense social pressure. Inside the fence, they fight to the death. I've seen shockingly high fighting mortality inside high-fences.

Thanks for answering. Looks like nature picks up where automobiles are taken out of the equation.

Makes since though, when you have a bunch of boys in a confined space competing for the ladies, push is going to come to shove....and even worse!

 

[BigAl]

However, the biggest problem inside high-fences is the mortality of bucks due to fighting. Unfenced, bucks can just leave the area under intense social pressure. Inside the fence, they fight to the death. I've seen shockingly high fighting mortality inside high-fences.

I've heard this mentioned before. And the closer the buck to doe ratio is to 1:1, the higher the mortality is due to fighting. Some places let the ration climb a little to minimize this.

 

[BSK]

I've seen large chunks of property managed in some of the most extreme ways possible. But the strangest results, from a social/behavioral perspective, I've ever seen have been inside high-fences, even those of 2,000+ acres. Being contained appears to be HIGHLY unnatural for whitetails, and doing so appears to produce very extreme responses.

 

[DayDay]

In the 6 weeks of primary rutting, it's not uncommon for older bucks to lose 30% of their body weight. That doesn't sound that dramatic until you realize that's a buck live-weighing 200 lbs at the beginning of the rut only weighing 160 lbs six weeks later. That's a HUGE difference.

The below pictured buck is a stud mature buck I had on my place in 2017. Knowing the deer in the area, I believe he weighed at least 220 lbs on the hoof when the picture was taken in mid-October. I ended up killing him at the very end of the season, on Dec. 31, very post-rut. He only live-weighed 175 pounds by then.

Am I missing something or do you need to check your math? ;)

 

[BSK]

Am I missing something or do you need to check your math? ;)

I needed to check the math. Make that 140 lbs. Good catch!

 

[DayDay]

I needed to check the math. Make that 140 lbs. Good catch!

That is incredible (the 140 lbs.; not that you needed to check your math).

This makes me wonder about one of the "biggest" bucks I've killed where I hunt. His frame was big but he seemed a little thin to me. He did not weigh as much as a smaller (shorter?) buck I've killed there. I thought maybe he was just getting old and lost some of his bulk like people do with old age. Now, I'm wondering if it was due to rut season as it was post-rut.

I didn't have a history on the deer (no cameras) and I've never paid much attention to determining the age of deer so I don't know what the case was. He looked healthy. Maybe he was just naturally tall and skinny.

 

[BSK]

The most active bucks in the rut lose the most weight. And that is REALLY hard on bucks that live in low to moderate-quality habitat, like extensive hardwoods in a poor acorn year, or a year without Red Oak acorns (Reds are the only acorns still viable post-rut). THAT is what kills mature bucks in hardwoods environments - rut stress.