My no-till garden...

[MickThompson]

I thought I would share some pics of how my no-till garden effort is coming along. If weeds in a garden offend you, turn away now.

I have put in roughly 1500 sq ft, and it's more than I can keep up with! I started with tilling a 20x25 spot 3 years ago, and it was exhausting, frustrating work with a front tine tiller. And my tiller had a broken tine, so really all I had was 3/4 of a front tine tiller. It was great at bringing rocks to the surface. I expanded it slightly the next year with the tiller. I work with several folks with the Natural Resources Conservation Service, and about that time they began a big soil health farming campaign. I took the principles I could from production level soil health farming and tweaked it to fit my backyard garden. I figured the worst case scenario was I would have to pull the tiller back out and turn my failure under...

 

[MickThompson]

One of the keys to soil health is having something growing year-round, meaning cool-season cover crops in the winter. Greens, clover, and wheat fill that niche nicely. Go light on the greens or they will choke everything else out. I terminate my winter cover by mowing or weedeating when I get ready to plant. I want the organic matter to stay in the garden. You don't have to turn them under, just get them in contact with the soil and the worms will do the rest. When I plant, I simply break a spot of soil about the size of a quarter and mash the seed in the ground.

This corn is about a month old. We are in a moderate drought in Putnam County right now, at least until we got 0.7 inches yesterday. I haven't needed to water anything except the tomatoes and peppers that were transplants. After my plants get 4"-5" tall, I side dress with a little 19-19-19. I pull weeds by hand out of the row at this time, but just mow from here on out for weed control.

 

[MickThompson]

Same for my beans, except I plant double rows and fertilize in between. Once these beans play out, I will double crop behind them with squash. I follow my squash with beans, and plant peas into the corn after I pick it. This helps prevent diseases and pests from building up in the soil. Diversity and rotation is another important part of the soil health equation.

 

[MickThompson]

This corn went is mid April. I haven't pulled weeds since the initial weeding at planting. Ag research has show that after 4 weeks, weed pressure does little to influence yield. It's over waist high now.I'd say it's looking pretty decent for growing in a drought.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I do mine no till but plant into fabric. Thanks for aharing


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[MickThompson]

Next year I want to try to roll crimp my covers to use the residue as weed fabric. It works on a production scale, but I haven't figured out how to scale it down yet.

 

[DaveB]

1) How do you control insects from aphids up through those green caterpillars?

2) Your harvest affected? How much is your yield impacted-10% 15%?

3) How do you control the weeds-pull by hand? You can't weed-wack everything.

Not so sure I am in agreement with this methodology. How do you naturally replenish the soil nutrients? Same for maintaining Ph. Gardening can put and take, I understand, BUT I don't think the soil is replenished by rotation of crops that does not involve much more intensive plantings over a longer period of time.

Just seems to me the weeds are competing for the soil resources with your food. I agree, easy to overdo the chemical treatments and long term this may be detrimental to human health. However, avoiding a debilitating and/or fatal disease or health condition isn't of much value if you cannot feed yourself.

Can you share more info on the underlying objectives of this type of gardening?

 

[catman529]

I like it, and looks to be growing well so far.

I had similar results with the front tine tiller - chewing up a 25' square of Bermuda grass isn't the greatest. I didn't even till my pumpkin patch or corn, and so far the cucurbits are growing very well and I will see how the corn grows when it comes up.


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[MickThompson]

1.) I use insecticides if I need to. The only issue I had last year was the tiny orange/yellow caterpillars on my beans. I am not eliminating inputs, just minimizing them. I had no issues in my corn except raccoons. I will be spraying 22s for them this year.
2.) I would say my yield has improved, especially my yield per unit effort. That's the core principle- reduce inputs while maintaining productivity. This system isn't right for everyone, but it works for me. I lost way more yield to raccoons than anything.
3.) I weed a 4" swath down the row when I plant, then it's mowing from there. If I see something noxious, I pull it. I use the weeds to mulch around my plants to shade out what comes next.

I'm not organic- I use lime and mineral fertilizers, but I try to put more than I take through residue management and cover crops. I try to
The basic principle of "soil health" farming is mimicking natural soil processes to reduce input while maintaining productivity. In this philosophy, weeds and pests are viewed as a symptom of a disfunctional system- it's a completely different philosophy than what we've been taught about farming. As I said earlier, weeds matter until the crop has them well overtopped, then the weeds are irrelevant. Once I mow them, I spread the clippings back into the garden and the weeds become plant food. I am trying to combine the best of conventional, no-till, and soil health in my garden. The soil health movement is based on principles in the book "One Straw Revolution". Check Ray Archuleta's videos here-
https://vimeo.com/channels/raythesoilguy
He's the soil health guru for USDA.

 

[MickThompson]

I like it, and looks to be growing well so far.

I had similar results with the front tine tiller - chewing up a 25' square of Bermuda grass isn't the greatest. I didn't even till my pumpkin patch or corn, and so far the cucurbits are growing very well and I will see how the corn grows when it comes up.


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The only issue I can see you having is not being able to manage weeds in the pumpkin patch because of how they spread and run. I am doing my cucumbers on a trellis so they spread vertically and take up less space in the garden. I don't think my trellis will hold pumpkins though. I think you will be pleased with the no till corn though.

 

[catman529]

I like it, and looks to be growing well so far.

I had similar results with the front tine tiller - chewing up a 25' square of Bermuda grass isn't the greatest. I didn't even till my pumpkin patch or corn, and so far the cucurbits are growing very well and I will see how the corn grows when it comes up.


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The only issue I can see you having is not being able to manage weeds in the pumpkin patch because of how they spread and run. I am doing my cucumbers on a trellis so they spread vertically and take up less space in the garden. I don't think my trellis will hold pumpkins though. I think you will be pleased with the no till corn though.

I don't like how two huge rabbits busted out into the corn patch while I was watering. But anyway I will have to hand pull a bunch of weeds that pop up among the vines. I will weedeat wherever the vines aren't growing until they've taken up all the ground space. I won't plant pumpkins for another week or so, but the melons and Atlantic Giant are up and growing fast.


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[MickThompson]

Have you thought about putting down cardboard or newspaper under the pumpkins? And you shouldn't have to water the no till plantings. I have had seed germinate in 10 day droughts before. I haven't watered mine at all except the pepper and tomato transplants.

 

[catman529]

Have you thought about putting down cardboard or newspaper under the pumpkins? And you shouldn't have to water the no till plantings. I have had seed germinate in 10 day droughts before. I haven't watered mine at all except the pepper and tomato transplants.

I am watering the corn to speed the germination. Normally I don't water plants once they get going, the roots go deep and wide


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[DaveB]

In order to avoid ground rot with the large pumpkins I took plastic storage boxes and cut them to about a 6 inch height. Stuck them in the ground, put a 2x2 sheet of 3/4 plywood on top, put the vine and sprouting pumpkin on top of the plywood.

You want your pumpkins sprouted and at least two new leaves by July 4th. I planted 3 seeds per mound. When they flower, manually pollenate and do a good job, take pistils from plant A to pollenate plant B. Once pumpkins are set you need to use your eyes. Which ones to prune off? Which ones to keep? Adage says keep closest to main roots and this is a good starting point. One per vine is good. I generally at this point pruned back the 3 original plants to the one I judge most healthy.

I used a generic miracle-grow liquid about every two weeks. My soil prep was much different. I dug down close to two feet and worked an area about 3 feet on a side. I turned and turned and turned the soil and heavily fertilized several months ahead of seed planting.

I grew an average 5 squash over 100 every year. The amount of room they need is unreal.

 

[catman529]

In order to avoid ground rot with the large pumpkins I took plastic storage boxes and cut them to about a 6 inch height. Stuck them in the ground, put a 2x2 sheet of 3/4 plywood on top, put the vine and sprouting pumpkin on top of the plywood.

You want your pumpkins sprouted and at least two new leaves by July 4th. I planted 3 seeds per mound. When they flower, manually pollenate and do a good job, take pistils from plant A to pollenate plant B. Once pumpkins are set you need to use your eyes. Which ones to prune off? Which ones to keep? Adage says keep closest to main roots and this is a good starting point. One per vine is good. I generally at this point pruned back the 3 original plants to the one I judge most healthy.

I used a generic miracle-grow liquid about every two weeks. My soil prep was much different. I dug down close to two feet and worked an area about 3 feet on a side. I turned and turned and turned the soil and heavily fertilized several months ahead of seed planting.

I grew an average 5 squash over 100 every year. The amount of room they need is unreal.

good info. Mine already have at least 3rd leaves. When they set fruit I will definitely put a board or a piece of foam under the pumpkins. I also saved room in the patch for Connecticut field and buckskin pumpkins. I hope the AG's don't take over the whole patch. How long did your vines grow?


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[WTM]

coons eating corn huh? must be peaches n cream? i tried peaches n cream once and i think i fed every coon for miles lol and went back to what i was raised on, silver queen. its not as sweet and i think thats why it doesnt attract coons like some of the other sweeter variety.

so other than just planting cover crops you are not adding any other mulch, green matter, first cut hay, wheat straw, etc?

im with you on the cover crops and have been doing it for years. i plant a mix of daikon radish and brassica(helps in keeping clay soil less compacted), vetch. and a bit of clover or sometimes cow peas to replenish nitrogen. the daikon and brassica also helps me with deer meat, absolutely love it.

 

[MickThompson]

Ambrosia bicolor. I will be ready for the fight this year. How do they know it's almost ready to pick?

I just use cover crops, no other mulch. I added what was supposed to be wheat straw to cover potatoes last year and now I have an unending supply of ryegrass to fight now. To add insult to injury, voles ate >80% of the potatoes too. I am a little gun shy to add anything that could introduce a new weed to my garden. I did turnips and a variety of other greens. I think I will go with wheat and clover.

Funny you should mention deer. 2 years ago I had several does and even a nice 8 pointer visit. Last winter, nothing, even with no acorns to speak of. They are welcome to it all winter, as long as they let me have it in the summer.

 

[MickThompson]

Very nice, you've got a pretty place there.

Thank you sir!

 

[catman529]

coons eating corn huh? must be peaches n cream? i tried peaches n cream once and i think i fed every coon for miles lol and went back to what i was raised on, silver queen. its not as sweet and i think thats why it doesnt attract coons like some of the other sweeter variety.

so other than just planting cover crops you are not adding any other mulch, green matter, first cut hay, wheat straw, etc?

im with you on the cover crops and have been doing it for years. i plant a mix of daikon radish and brassica(helps in keeping clay soil less compacted), vetch. and a bit of clover or sometimes cow peas to replenish nitrogen. the daikon and brassica also helps me with deer meat, absolutely love it.

dang. I planted a bunch of peaches n cream cause it tastes so good. But it looks like they will now be opening coon season on July 1st on private land, so I can camp out in the evenings and shoot every coon I can.


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[WTM]

yep winter wheat and clover is a good mix. i plant my hillsides where my newly installed drainage ditches and french drain in winter wheat and annual rye grass. the roots keep it from washing. the rye grass is easy enough to kill by scalp mowing in the spring but he winter wheat is harder to kill when getting ready for spring season.

my guess is the sweeter corn is easier to smell by coons, prolly why my grandparents always planted silver queen they dont seem to hit it as much.

i dont have much trouble with voles, moles, rabbits and mice when using straw and hay mulch. between the cotton mouths from the river bottoms, the coyotes from the fields next door and the timber rattlers on the hill behind my house keeps them pretty much thinned out and manageable.

strange on the battle with rye grass, if cut short in warm weather it will kill it quick.

 

[MickThompson]

I mow that ryegrass weekly with my pushmower all the way down. It scrapes dirt off the high spots, and the ryegrass comes back with a vengeance. I pull all I can to try to stay ahead of it. That's an experiment I will not repeat.

Got any rattlers or mocassins to spare? I'd like to be able to grow potatoes again.I think the straw made it worse because I gave them thatch to tunnel under. The voles have a huge tunnel system under the willow tree right next to the garden. I would poison the evil little things but I have a 2 year old and can't take that chance. I've run rabbits out of my winter covers before, but they leave it be once I start putting my summer garden in. I am trying sweet potatoes in pots this year to see how that will work.

 

[DaveB]

My pumpkin vines grew over 20 feet. The leaves were on stalks big as rhubarb sticks. There are spines on the stalks you can barely feel on regular pumpkins but on mine these spines were so thick you had to wear gloves. I recall the blooms being huge-over 6 inches. The leaves got to be nearly two feet from tip to stalk. I wish I could find the pictures I took of me standing in the patch.

One year i decided I wasn't gonna spend as much time on the patch and did not prune back the sprouts. Instead of lots of big pumpkins it looked like a normal pumpkin patch, really quite discouraging.

The stem/handle on the big boys was so big I had to use a hand saw. Cut it long when you harvest. seems to allow the pumpkin to keep a bit longer.

When they get big, over a hundred pounds, they get hard to move. Don't be surprised if you need help to move/lift them. If you think you are going to roll them around be sure there are no rocks in the way. They become a part of the pumpkin, kinda ruins the look.

 

[catman529]

My pumpkin vines grew over 20 feet. The leaves were on stalks big as rhubarb sticks. There are spines on the stalks you can barely feel on regular pumpkins but on mine these spines were so thick you had to wear gloves. I recall the blooms being huge-over 6 inches. The leaves got to be nearly two feet from tip to stalk. I wish I could find the pictures I took of me standing in the patch.

One year i decided I wasn't gonna spend as much time on the patch and did not prune back the sprouts. Instead of lots of big pumpkins it looked like a normal pumpkin patch, really quite discouraging.

The stem/handle on the big boys was so big I had to use a hand saw. Cut it long when you harvest. seems to allow the pumpkin to keep a bit longer.

When they get big, over a hundred pounds, they get hard to move. Don't be surprised if you need help to move/lift them. If you think you are going to roll them around be sure there are no rocks in the way. They become a part of the pumpkin, kinda ruins the look.

when you say sprouts, do you mean the suckers that branch off the main stem?

Also, did you ever have a problem with vine borers or squash bugs?


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[WTM]

I mow that ryegrass weekly with my pushmower all the way down. It scrapes dirt off the high spots, and the ryegrass comes back with a vengeance. I pull all I can to try to stay ahead of it. That's an experiment I will not repeat.

Got any rattlers or mocassins to spare? I'd like to be able to grow potatoes again.I think the straw made it worse because I gave them thatch to tunnel under. The voles have a huge tunnel system under the willow tree right next to the garden. I would poison the evil little things but I have a 2 year old and can't take that chance. I've run rabbits out of my winter covers before, but they leave it be once I start putting my summer garden in. I am trying sweet potatoes in pots this year to see how that will work.

haha i got plenty of rattlers and cotton mouths to spare, thats why i have a bermuda yard so i can mow it closer to the ground. when it gets hot the rattlers come to my house and lay under the big hostas. i guess they looking for a cool place to be.

that may have been perrenial rye grass mixed in the straw. the annual rye i overseed the bermuda with will die when i scalp the bermuda at about 85 deg.

have you ever trie trash can taters an older fellow showed me how he grew them in those big storage containers you get at walmart. he put a couple inches of dirt then placed tater seed halves then cover with couple inches of mulch. let them grow about 6 inches then add more mulch. keep repeating until you get to the top. feed and let grow until they start to wilt at harvest time dump out the container and you have nice clean potatoes. a tall trash can works too, just make sure to empty out the garbage before using lol.

 

[DaveB]

You don't cut flowers off when they appear. You hav to manually take pistils from one plant and rub the pollen all over the stamen on a different plant. Then the flower will die back and a pumpkin MAY or MAY NOT form. It may be ugly, mis-shapen, it might get a bug, whatever. At some point, you prune these sprouts (thats what I call them) off, leaving one per vine, or just one per plant.

 

[catman529]

You don't cut flowers off when they appear. You hav to manually take pistils from one plant and rub the pollen all over the stamen on a different plant. Then the flower will die back and a pumpkin MAY or MAY NOT form. It may be ugly, mis-shapen, it might get a bug, whatever. At some point, you prune these sprouts (thats what I call them) off, leaving one per vine, or just one per plant.

oh so by sprout you mean small growing pumpkin. But leave the side branches to grow. How come you cross pollinate plants? I thought pumpkins could pollinate their own flowers.


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[DaveB]

For really good pumpkins you cannot rely upon natural pollination. Firstly, you know there is a male flower and female flower. The male flower generally appears first.....then the female. The female flower looks weird as it sits on top of what is going to become your pumpkin. If you pay attention you will see the female flowers appear to be pollinated and then the fruit doesn't set and your window of opportunity is gone and this will truly ruin your day.

There are stories (i think Wive's tales) that pumpkins can be pollinated by other squash....the female flower may get pollinated but it ain't gonna set so from a pumpkin farmers perspective I guess you wouldn't want to grow butternut next to pumpkins. But for big pumpkins your time, money and just plain work is shot when fruit doesn't set.

So what you are supposed to do is look at your female flowers as they get ready to bloom. Get up the next day at crack of dawn and with coffee cup in hand, gently remove the stamen from a male flower and coat the female flower stigma and really do it up right but be gentle. If the pollen isn't transferring easily that male flower was not ready. Go fetch another stamen and repeat.

Once you have done your thing you are trapped. You have to wait and see if the fruit sets. This is why you pollinate every female flower and prune the sprouts based on what the fruits look like.

here-this and bunches of other how-to's are on the web to help you grow pumpkins.

http://www.pumpkinnook.com/howto/pollen.htm


PS. You hear of using sawdust? A lot of sawdust in the seed mound?

 

[catman529]

For really good pumpkins you cannot rely upon natural pollination. Firstly, you know there is a male flower and female flower. The male flower generally appears first.....then the female. The female flower looks weird as it sits on top of what is going to become your pumpkin. If you pay attention you will see the female flowers appear to be pollinated and then the fruit doesn't set and your window of opportunity is gone and this will truly ruin your day.

There are stories (i think Wive's tales) that pumpkins can be pollinated by other squash....the female flower may get pollinated but it ain't gonna set so from a pumpkin farmers perspective I guess you wouldn't want to grow butternut next to pumpkins. But for big pumpkins your time, money and just plain work is shot when fruit doesn't set.

So what you are supposed to do is look at your female flowers as they get ready to bloom. Get up the next day at crack of dawn and with coffee cup in hand, gently remove the stamen from a male flower and coat the female flower stigma and really do it up right but be gentle. If the pollen isn't transferring easily that male flower was not ready. Go fetch another stamen and repeat.

Once you have done your thing you are trapped. You have to wait and see if the fruit sets. This is why you pollinate every female flower and prune the sprouts based on what the fruits look like.

here-this and bunches of other how-to's are on the web to help you grow pumpkins.

http://www.pumpkinnook.com/howto/pollen.htm


PS. You hear of using sawdust? A lot of sawdust in the seed mound?

I have hand-pollinated pumpkins in the past, but was wondering why you recommend going from one plant to the next rather than using flowers from the same plant? Does it set better fruit or does it just help diversify the genes if you're saving seeds from the pumpkins? I always had thought it didn't matter if you were selfing the pumpkins or crossing with another plant. I remember buying Dills AG seeds several years ago, looking at all the options, told how big of a pumpkin each pack of seeds came from, and if that pumpkin was crossed with another pumpkin or pollinated itself.

Also no I haven't heard of sawdust, what does it do?

 

[DaveB]

Cross pollinating from one plant to a like plant is always a good idea. Think how you get corn kernels.....Why you think you have to plant corn so close together? I know this sounds weird but you mean you have NEVER pollinated your tomatoes? I used to have enough plants to compare results and I saw enough difference to convince myself it was a good idea to maximize yield. You do know most apples require cross pollination from a different variety?

It is not required but it is nearly always recommended.

Some monster pumpkin growers use fresh sawdust as a soil amendment. The absorbtion of moisture and supposedly it allows roots to grow faster...more roots, more nutrients, bigger pumpkins. The technique of cutting the growing tip of a vine and planting it is supposedly another technique. It is no different than incline planting of container grown tomato plants to get more roots, more and bigger yield.

http://www.burpee.com/gardenadvicecente ... 10276.html

http://www.gardenersnet.com/vegetable/giantpumpkins.htm

http://www.thepumpkinmaster.com/htg/how ... arethesoil

I know some folks think I am nuts but growing big pumpkins is unreal fun and doggone difficult to do. Anyone can grow those 25 pounders.

bunch more....I like this....
5. POLLINATE FLOWERS. At about 60 days after germination, the first female flowers will appear. They're easy to distinguish because they have a small pumpkin at their base. If you want to ensure you lineage, you'll need to hand-pollinate the flowers. It is a good idea to place plastic or paper bags over the male and female flowers that will be opening in the next morning so that no early morning bee's can pollinate your flowers with any foreign pollen. Next, in the early morning, locate a freshly opened male flower. Pick it and remove the outer flower petals, exposing the stamen and fresh pollen. Locate a newly opened female flower and gently swab the stigma (internal parts) of the female flower with the pollen-laden stamen. Cover the flower back up so that no late bees can put foreign pollen in them.

 

[catman529]

I guess you're right about being a good idea to cross with another plant. However not all plants are the same. Some trees won't set fruit unless pollinated with another tree of the same species. But tomatoes on the other hand are self-pollinating, and are difficult to cross with anything unless you do it by hand or a bug does it before self-pollination can occur. Just tapping the flower when the pollen is ripe will ensure pollination. But most times just the breeze or a bug landing on the flower will do it. The anthers grow around the stigma and pollen falls right off onto the stigma and pollinates the flower. Same for peppers and other nightshade plants


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