Muzzleloader and short range shots

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HuntnMoon

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Missed 2 bucks this morning... Both within 10 yards. Due to a shoulder injury I'm hunting from the ground. I know about height over bore... Anyone
Else find shooting at this close a distance very difficult? I usually hunt with a bow from a stand... Close distance shots with a muzzleloader from the ground gives me way more problems. Any thoughts/experiences? These type of hunts make me think I am in the wrong hobby or maybe sight in my muzzloader at 15 yards
 
I am having some difficulties this year. Pretty certain that I need rotator cuff surgery due to too many pitches in the batting cage over the years. My right shoulder bothered me more than ever over the past year and my shooting so far[we are in our 2nd week of mz in VA] might be telling me something. I'm missing from the ground and tree stand. Go home after each miss and my mz is dead on from a rest.
Really do not want surgery! :(
 
You are probably shooting over the back. Take a shot at a closer target and see how high you are.


Could it bee you are flinching when not shooting from a rest?


I find I cannot hold my ML steady enough for an off hand shot at any distance.
 
I think I did that very thing (shooting over the back) on a close shot (miss) Saturday morning. I may bring my shooting sticks to use in the stand my next trip out.
 
docpoco said:
No amount of "line of sight over bore" can account for missing a deer at 10 yards. Especially the theory of shooting over the back, because the bullet will still be BELOW line of sight at 10 yards.

In other words, a whitetail chest is approximately 18 inches tall. In order for you to shoot over the deers back at 10 yards, you would need to be aiming nearly 10-12 inches ABOVE center of the vitals.

One theory is that you may not be missing the deer. The bullet may be travelling so fast at that point it doesn't expand well, leaving a poor exit wound/blood trail
Click to expand...

Good thought.

What grain bullet are you using?
 
docpoco said:
No amount of "line of sight over bore" can account for missing a deer at 10 yards. Especially the theory of shooting over the back, because the bullet will still be BELOW line of sight at 10 yards.

In other words, a whitetail chest is approximately 18 inches tall. In order for you to shoot over the deers back at 10 yards, you would need to be aiming nearly 10-12 inches ABOVE center of the vitals.

One theory is that you may not be missing the deer. The bullet may be travelling so fast at that point it doesn't expand well, leaving a poor exit wound/blood trail
Click to expand...
Yep. Pretty much sums it up. Aim for bone on the next one. Shoulders help bullets expand :grin:
 
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I'm zeroed at 150 yards. From the muzzle to that point my bullet is on the rise leveling out at 150 Yards. Same can be said for zeroing at 100 yards. On my set up at 50 yards I'm hitting 1.75" above where I'm aiming. Zeroed at 100 yards wouldn't be quite that high. At 10 yards that rise would be even less. You shouldn't be missing the deer. Either the scope is off or like mentioned, your bullet isn't expanding and possibly costing you a deer. I would think you'd see some kind of reaction from the deer at a hit.
 
Bullet traveling too fast to expand is not scientifically possible. Bullet will open up too fast and fragment if shot too fast, not the opposite.
 
Okay, quick follow up on my post... 1st deer I missed...clean... 2nd deer turned out to be the first deer (8 pt) and I found him about 60 yards away.... Double lung... Pass through and only the tiniest drops of blood did I ever find... Not even worthy of being called drops more like specks... I hate to be the guy crying about deer that don't bleed but this happens often where I either don't get a pass through or very little blood. I think I have the pass through thing taken care of now that I am shooting the hornady sst instead of the xtp... Thanks for listening... Any other thoughts advice would be appreciated... FYI my muzzy is sighted in at roughly an inch high at 50 and dead on at 100 I shoot 100 gr 777 and a 300 gr hornady sst
 
Your dead on.. That is what happened... I know what your talking about the bullet being low and out of sight that is what happened on the first shot I'm used to bow hunting and like an idiot I aimed low at 10 yards which is ridiculous.
 
Just picked up the was about to read this post b4 leaving for this afternoon hunt. I get climb 2/3 the way and here something and its a 8 point at 15 yds he walks to twenty after spooling a bit and is behind a tree. SOME HOW! I was able to pull my muzzy up and get a primer on he steps out and I take A shot! He bolts and runs 100 yards and slow for a sec and and I though he might be down there. ( haven't check ther yet) 5 mins later I see a doe that looks to be smelling something around there for min. I got down and have no blood at shot so I climb back up to wait a few. Well see this post gives me some hope...
 
Wait! It never hurts and if you made a good shot will make the difference, I guess the lesson learned is no blood don't mean you didn't make a good shot....
 
SHOT A 7 point saturday. powerbelt 245 hollow point 20 yards . found my deer 100 yards away blood everywhere . no blood for first 80 yards . No exit wound.I GUESS lungs had to fill up first ???
 
Awesome, congrats, I'm telling you that happens to me very often, all internal bleeding with very little or no blood....completely different than bow hunting
 
DaveB said:
You are probably shooting over the back. Take a shot at a closer target and see how high you are.


Could it bee you are flinching when not shooting from a rest?


I find I cannot hold my ML steady enough for an off hand shot at any distance.
Click to expand...
This
 
I did the same thing several times over the years. Once at such close range I knew I hit the deer but later discovered I had missed. I sat down and recreated the shot and yanked the trigger but saw through the scope I had pulled the gun several feet to the right (right handed) because I was pulling with my hand and not my trigger finger. I have the trouble most at close range - if it is a longer shot I am very careful to be on target and squeeeeeze the trigger. My problem is a variation of flinching.
 
Just an FYI but bullets don't rise, they actually start toward the ground immediately once leaving the muzzle, simple law of physics and gravity. The misconception of them rising is because a scope is mounted 2+ inches above the muzzle hence the illusion the bullet is rising, which isn't the case at all.
 
Could it be that because of your shoulder injury you may not be following through with your shot. I may be over thinking this but if you're accustomed to hunting out of a tree your aiming point from the ground may be zeroed in a little lower and if you didn't follow through is it possible you could have shot completely under the deer. An inch because of this and an inch because of that could end up being no more than a tummy tuck on that deer.
 
EastTNHunter said:
Bullet traveling too fast to expand is not scientifically possible. Bullet will open up too fast and fragment if shot too fast, not the opposite.
Click to expand...

Agreed. According to my findings, the faster a bullet travels the faster it expand.
 
docpoco said:
EastTNHunter said:
Bullet traveling too fast to expand is not scientifically possible. Bullet will open up too fast and fragment if shot too fast, not the opposite.
Click to expand...

Not true at all, its called over penetration.
Click to expand...

That's funny! Kind of like a buddy of mine saying his 300 mag is no good at 50 yards but is great at 300. You know, when the bullet gets up to speed.
Faster it travels, the faster it expands.
 
HuntnMoon said:
Okay, quick follow up on my post... 1st deer I missed...clean... 2nd deer turned out to be the first deer (8 pt) and I found him about 60 yards away.... Double lung... Pass through and only the tiniest drops of blood did I ever find... Not even worthy of being called drops more like specks... I hate to be the guy crying about deer that don't bleed but this happens often where I either don't get a pass through or very little blood. I think I have the pass through thing taken care of now that I am shooting the hornady sst instead of the xtp... Thanks for listening... Any other thoughts advice would be appreciated... FYI my muzzy is sighted in at roughly an inch high at 50 and dead on at 100 I shoot 100 gr 777 and a 300 gr hornady sst
Click to expand...

This is exactly what happened to me on my first ML buck. No blood until the last 5 feet. It was a complete pass through shot at about 20 yards. I've read that those holes on double lung shots can clot/plug up really quickly and the blood leaves the mouth and nose at the last few moments, and that's what happened to my buck. He fell about 60 yards away and all his blood came from the mouth and nose.

Glad you found him!
 
This is my first year hunting with a muzzleloader and I've gone with the 250gr aerolite with 120gr. I hope this will be a good combination. Anyone have any experience with the 250gr aerolites?
 
Winchester said:
Just an FYI but bullets don't rise, they actually start toward the ground immediately once leaving the muzzle, simple law of physics and gravity. The misconception of them rising is because a scope is mounted 2+ inches above the muzzle hence the illusion the bullet is rising, which isn't the case at all.
Click to expand...


For your information if the muzzle is aimed anywhere above level with the circumfrence of the Earth then the bullet is traveling away from said Earth...and traveling in an upward direction. Some would call that rising. Back to my coffee now.
 

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