More idiots.

[Spurhunter]

I guess the Drury brothers will sell their souls for the right money. "66 yards. That's where I dropped him." With lead. I wonder how many turkeys will get fed to the coyotes this year because of this stupid ad. It is sickening what turkey hunting is becoming.


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[deerhunter10]

Re: More idiots.

Wow. Most people don't even know what 40 yards is much less how to get a bird in that close.

 

[Setterman]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

 

[PalsPal]

Re: More idiots.

That was posted last year.

The LBs are great shells.

 

[ZachMarkus]

More idiots.

Longbeards are great shells but there's no way I would shoot at a turkey that far. He will live to see another day if he hangs up at 50-60 yards.









Unless I decide to pull out the fan and bring him on in[emoji12]

 

[scn]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

x2

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

That was posted last year.

The LBs are great shells.

It was a different ad last year that didn't include the Drury brothers. I don't disagree that the LBs are great shells. But, shooting at a turkey at 66 yards is unethical with any shell and your hunting priveledges should be revoked for life if you do it.

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

x2

X3. Saw a new full strut decoy in a catalog yesterday that mounts to a 4X4 remote control car chasis so you can drive it around. Seriously? This is what turkey hunting has become?

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

amen.


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[deerhunter10]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

X2

 

[TreyB]

Re: More idiots.

Every day I'm becoming more and more fed up with the new generation of turkey wannabes. With each season that passes more rubes jump on board and their only desire is to kill as easy as possible.

All the fanboys who support the if it's legal it's okay with me philosophy will have themselves to blame when this sport is completely trashed by them and the others who seemingly have no respect or desire to hunt turkeys. All they want to do is kill, and never actually learn to hunt.

I've spoken out big time about decoys, blinds, fanning, long range bs, ambushing, hen killing, etc etc, because all of those things are destroying what was a great form of hunting. That's been ruined by the bone collector dipsticks joining our ranks. I just wish they'd go away.....

x2

X3. Saw a new full strut decoy in a catalog yesterday that mounts to a 4X4 remote control car chasis so you can drive it around. Seriously? This is what turkey hunting has become?

:rotf:

 

[Boll Weevil]

Re: More idiots.

What Setterman said.

 

[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

Ok I'll bite and send out opposing view. I'm new to Turkey hunting but have been a long time Hunter of deer and small game. My opinion is that if you know your weapon system and it's capabilities and know that you can make a clean and ethical kill on a shot like that I have no problem with it. I think it's hypocritical to bash longer shots (if they are kill shots) when many on here are running around with tight chokes and tss loads for super dense patterns. Your still manipulating the shot just in another way. And then to the arguments against decoys and other things people consider "cheating". If you don't want to use them that's fine but no one is less of a hunter for using them. I'd bet most on here that argue against decoys and the LB add still use calls and camo clothing. So who are you to say some are a real hunter that uses xyz gadgets but not if they use ABC gadgets? Are some ridiculous? Absolutely! Would is use all of them? Absolutely not! Does it offend me that my neighbor might? No! I know I'm probably about to catch heck on here for that opinion but that's my opinion. I still think woodsmanship is ultra important above anything else. I don't think these gadgets will cause a decline in turkey populations, as that's up to each state regulations.

Just for the record I won't buy one of those remote control car decoys but think it's gonna make some hilarious youtube videos.

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[elknturkey]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

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[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

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I wasn't arguing that it should be done, I was just arguing that if you can do it then I don't see issue with it. Going back to my comment of KNOWING YOUR WEAPON SYSTEM! If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it. I would like to see actual ballistic testing data concerning the energy that LB carries vs regular lead at those distances. Compared to the energy required to kill a bird. If your statement saying it won't work is accurate then I'd agree it shouldn't be done, I believe when you pull the trigger it should be a kill, I despise people taking bad shots then wounded animals get away.

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[deerhunter10]

Re: More idiots.

Its still lead shot the long beard shells just added better patterning. They loose their energy it does matter what lead shot it is. Lb just pattern better then most lead shot.

 

[gobblinfool]

Re: More idiots.

Many years ago I got into it with the people that created the Alaska Fish/Wildlife regulation book. One of our archers shot a magnificent caribou up off of the haul road. It made the front cover, with the caption that read, "shot at 90 yards with his bow".......the rest of the story is like this......when asked why there was no blood near the kill zone.....he admitted to striking the bou in the Johnson......no doubt some people with the right equipment/training can do this...and do it consistently........but unfortunately with todays gear.....everyone thinks that they can do it......

 

[easy45]

Re: More idiots.

I like the shells but I'm not taking that far of a shot.

 

[Andy S.]

Re: More idiots.

If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it.

If the Drury brothers or anyone else could could kill everyone they shot at 66 yards, then I could see why you wouldn't have an issue, but that is not the case. A sample size of ONE shot at 66 yards is not convincing to me, more like a lot of luck. I relate a kill shot at 66 yards akin to someone hitting a half court shot. While it can be done, the odds are against you, thus err on the conservative side and don't pepper the bird with shot and risk the chance of wounding him.

 

[elknturkey]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I wasn't arguing that it should be done, I was just arguing that if you can do it then I don't see issue with it. Going back to my comment of KNOWING YOUR WEAPON SYSTEM! If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it. I would like to see actual ballistic testing data concerning the energy that LB carries vs regular lead at those distances. Compared to the energy required to kill a bird. If your statement saying it won't work is accurate then I'd agree it shouldn't be done, I believe when you pull the trigger it should be a kill, I despise people taking bad shots then wounded animals get away.

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That's the point I was making. No matter your weapon system lead will not kill at 66 yards. The gun or pattern density does not change the physical properties of lead

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[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I wasn't arguing that it should be done, I was just arguing that if you can do it then I don't see issue with it. Going back to my comment of KNOWING YOUR WEAPON SYSTEM! If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it. I would like to see actual ballistic testing data concerning the energy that LB carries vs regular lead at those distances. Compared to the energy required to kill a bird. If your statement saying it won't work is accurate then I'd agree it shouldn't be done, I believe when you pull the trigger it should be a kill, I despise people taking bad shots then wounded animals get away.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That's the point I was making. No matter your weapon system lead will not kill at 66 yards. The gun or pattern density does not change the physical properties of lead

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It won't change the physical properties of lead, but the resin used to hold the shot together, the choke, even the barrel length can effect the energy that the payload carries. Even the size of the shot in theory would have a varying in velocity. I'm not claiming it's enough so I'm not arguing against you. I'm just saying I'd like to see someone with the capability to actually test this and provide numbers vs "bro-science" from the court of opinions. I don't have the answer personally, but I'd like to see some proof either way. I would think that a short barreled shotgun with no choke and shooting let's say double x would have less energy at 40 yards than a longer barrel with a tight choke shooting LB. Also shot size wise obviously larger shot carries more energy over short distance but where would the mark be where it's energy drops below that of smaller shot? And would smaller shot carry more energy over a longer distance because of less drag? There are so many variables I think this would make an awesome article.

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[catman529]

Re: More idiots.

Winchester was advertising their shells like that last year, I don't like it either. Lets admit we have all misjudged and shot at one over 60 yards. But saying the shell kills at 60 will mean people misjudge and shoot at what, 70 or 80? As a public land hunter I don't like that


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[Bone Collector]

Re: More idiots.

That was posted last year.

The LBs are great shells.

I think by me....

 

[elknturkey]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I wasn't arguing that it should be done, I was just arguing that if you can do it then I don't see issue with it. Going back to my comment of KNOWING YOUR WEAPON SYSTEM! If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it. I would like to see actual ballistic testing data concerning the energy that LB carries vs regular lead at those distances. Compared to the energy required to kill a bird. If your statement saying it won't work is accurate then I'd agree it shouldn't be done, I believe when you pull the trigger it should be a kill, I despise people taking bad shots then wounded animals get away.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That's the point I was making. No matter your weapon system lead will not kill at 66 yards. The gun or pattern density does not change the physical properties of lead

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

It won't change the physical properties of lead, but the resin used to hold the shot together, the choke, even the barrel length can effect the energy that the payload carries. Even the size of the shot in theory would have a varying in velocity. I'm not claiming it's enough so I'm not arguing against you. I'm just saying I'd like to see someone with the capability to actually test this and provide numbers vs "bro-science" from the court of opinions. I don't have the answer personally, but I'd like to see some proof either way. I would think that a short barreled shotgun with no choke and shooting let's say double x would have less energy at 40 yards than a longer barrel with a tight choke shooting LB. Also shot size wise obviously larger shot carries more energy over short distance but where would the mark be where it's energy drops below that of smaller shot? And would smaller shot carry more energy over a longer distance because of less drag? There are so many variables I think this would make an awesome article.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

A pellet traveling at 1200 fps whether from a 10ga or a 410 has the same energy. Being encapsulated in resin does not change that. There's ballistic programs that can calculate the energy and lead falls below the 1.2 ft/lbs around 50. That's not bro science. The only thing to argue is if 1.2 ft/lbs is the absolute lowest energy required. Then again who wants to be on the border. I can kill a deer with a 22 but it's not logical

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[Coldfusion]

Re: More idiots.

^^^ "clean and ethical kills". You stated you are new so I will give you some info. LEAD WILL NOT KILL AT 66 YARDS. TSS is the best stuff available bar none and I still wouldn't shoot one at 60. Longbeards have really changed the game in getting lead to pattern really well but it's still lead. Hevi and tss is good till you're pattern falls apart. Longbeards don't play by that rule. They run out of energy before they run out of pattern density. In my younger days I killed 2 between 50-52 yards. It was a foot race. It didn't kill them it just stunned them long enough for me to get a boot on their head. I agree with everything setterman said. I started before the decoy game and it's went downhill ever since.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I wasn't arguing that it should be done, I was just arguing that if you can do it then I don't see issue with it. Going back to my comment of KNOWING YOUR WEAPON SYSTEM! If the Drury brothers were able to make that kill then I don't see the issue with it. I would like to see actual ballistic testing data concerning the energy that LB carries vs regular lead at those distances. Compared to the energy required to kill a bird. If your statement saying it won't work is accurate then I'd agree it shouldn't be done, I believe when you pull the trigger it should be a kill, I despise people taking bad shots then wounded animals get away.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

That's the point I was making. No matter your weapon system lead will not kill at 66 yards. The gun or pattern density does not change the physical properties of lead

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

It won't change the physical properties of lead, but the resin used to hold the shot together, the choke, even the barrel length can effect the energy that the payload carries. Even the size of the shot in theory would have a varying in velocity. I'm not claiming it's enough so I'm not arguing against you. I'm just saying I'd like to see someone with the capability to actually test this and provide numbers vs "bro-science" from the court of opinions. I don't have the answer personally, but I'd like to see some proof either way. I would think that a short barreled shotgun with no choke and shooting let's say double x would have less energy at 40 yards than a longer barrel with a tight choke shooting LB. Also shot size wise obviously larger shot carries more energy over short distance but where would the mark be where it's energy drops below that of smaller shot? And would smaller shot carry more energy over a longer distance because of less drag? There are so many variables I think this would make an awesome article.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

A pellet traveling at 1200 fps whether from a 10ga or a 410 has the same energy. Being encapsulated in resin does not change that. There's ballistic programs that can calculate the energy and lead falls below the 1.2 ft/lbs around 50. That's not bro science. The only thing to argue is if 1.2 ft/lbs is the absolute lowest energy required. Then again who wants to be on the border. I can kill a deer with a 22 but it's not logical

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I would argue the resin point. I don't see how it wouldn't effect the velocity. Anything that surrounds or leads a shot will effect it's ballistics. And just because it comes out at 1200fps doesn't mean that it will continue the same if there are other factors like the resin that holds the load together. The chokes can also effect this so you can't just look at the load stats. A tighter choke will cause higher pressure build up behind the load. BTW the 1.2lb/ft of pressure is that the velocity required to penetrate a birds skull?

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[LanceS4803]

Re: More idiots.

The LBs are great shells.

Agreed.
I shot a coyote at 42yds on Sunday with 3 1/2 #5 Long Beards (Mossberg 835 and Burris FF III). With the Sumtoy choke, it was a devastating hit to the head and chest.
Although this combo still patterns well at 50-55yds, for turkeys I set my personal max distance at 40yds.

 

[Gravey]

Re: More idiots.

I shoot them but not at 66 yards. I know they'll kill at 50 but prefer them at 20-30 because IMO the name of the game is to get them close.

 

[Roost 1]

Re: More idiots.

Why even start a thread like this???? :bash:

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

Why even start a thread like this???? :bash:

When I saw the ad I was so whizzed off I wanted someone to share in my pain. And I thought we might keep a newbie from trying it. Unfortunately the only newbie on the thread is arguing against common sense. Sorry if I offended you Rooster. :tu:

 

[Spurhunter]

Re: More idiots.

I would argue the resin point. I don't see how it wouldn't effect the velocity. Anything that surrounds or leads a shot will effect it's ballistics. And just because it comes out at 1200fps doesn't mean that it will continue the same if there are other factors like the resin that holds the load together. The chokes can also effect this so you can't just look at the load stats. A tighter choke will cause higher pressure build up behind the load. BTW the 1.2lb/ft of pressure is that the velocity required to penetrate a birds skull?

I'm going to give a little advice. Take it or leave it. You stated you are a new turkey hunter. Yet, you are the only one arguing this point with a host of veteran turkey hunters, reloaders, choke testers, etc. I've done a lot of shotgun/choke/load testing, but I don't hold a candle to some of the guys on this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge here. Learn all you can from these guys. Arguing with them is not going to help you learn.

As for a lead shell killing turkeys at 66 yards: Can it happen? Yes. There is a "magic pellet" in every box. Should you bet on a magic pellet? Absolutely not. I don't care what you call it and how fancy the box is, lead is just lead. Shooting at a turkey with lead (or anything else) at 66 yards is foolhardy, irresponsible, and unethical. You will feed many more to the coyotes than you will ever recover. If you can live with that, I can't stop you.