Loose Powder vs Pellets

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I prefer loose powder so that you have infinite number of adjustments to achieve the ideal load. Not every gun works best with 2-3 50 grain pellets. What if you want to shoot 90 or 110 grains. What could be easier than pouring a premeasured quick load into the muzzle? Plus it's cheaper.
 
fairchaser":3ipadgyx said:
I prefer loose powder so that you have infinite number of adjustments to achieve the ideal load. Not every gun works best with 2-3 50 grain pellets. What if you want to shoot 90 or 110 grains. What could be easier than pouring a premeasured quick load into the muzzle? Plus it's cheaper.
what all would I need to get started?
I am going between a cva wolf or optima v2, cant decide, and I know I will have to buy a special breech plug for loose. so let say I will be starting over with everything. I will not be buying this year, I like to read up and get opinion before I do anything. Thanks
 
I switched to BH209 this year and also with a brand new CVA Wolf as well. The only thing I did was to modify my original BP to install a vent liner to be compatible with using BH. That's about all you'll need , but you can buy the BH BP outright and be done with it I think.
 
I guess I'm glad you posted this, I'm looking forward to replies. I decided to switch to BH209 loose powder myself. I have a CVA accura and wasn't aware that anything had to be changed to accompany it.


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MUP":30s7hcd3 said:
I brought that thread regarding vent liners back up if y'all wanna take a look at it.
so to clarify MUP, a man would need vent liners if he was modifying his original BP. If you buy the BH209 BP, then you don't need vent liners.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm catching on now. I preferred the new BP for mine. Thanks


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:pop:
cbhunter":2xebg60f said:
MUP":2xebg60f said:
I brought that thread regarding vent liners back up if y'all wanna take a look at it.
so to clarify MUP, a man would need vent liners if he was modifying his original BP. If you buy the BH209 BP, then you don't need vent liners.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I'm catching on now. I preferred the new BP for mine. Thanks


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My TC encore I used the same BP it came with and switched to BH when it came out because I didn't like to clean my barrel after several shots using 777 pellets or pyrodex. If I zeroed it with a clean barrel then I'd have to run a wet patch followed by a couple dry patches before shooting another shot so I always zeroed it with a dirty barrel. With BH I can shoot 12 to 15 times with no difference in accuracy and it might load just a little harder but can't notice the difference like you could with 777 and the crud ring. I think it's easier to clean with regular solvent versus the hot soapy water method for other powders.
My gun shot well with pellets but like fairchaser stated you can fine tune with loose powder and if choosing loose powder I'd go with BH over the others.
 
Also, even tho it's not necessary, I have been running a dry patch down after each shot, just cleaning the dust out of the barrel so to speak, and the following loads have gone in a little easier.
 
MUP":2stsastu said:
Also, even tho it's not necessary, I have been running a dry patch down after each shot, just cleaning the dust out of the barrel so to speak, and the following loads have gone in a little easier.
Also makes cleanup better if you run a couple dry patches before adding the solvent patch because most of the residue is gone.
 
I switched to BH209 this year and it is great. I can shoot about as many rounds as my shoulder can handle and every bullets seats as easily as the one before. The only downside would be the time it takes (which is minimal) to weigh out charges. That is made up by how quickly the barrel cleans up after use. I did buy the 209 breech plug and used magnum primers.
 
iowavf":1jnw8ig1 said:
MUP":1jnw8ig1 said:
Also, even tho it's not necessary, I have been running a dry patch down after each shot, just cleaning the dust out of the barrel so to speak, and the following loads have gone in a little easier.
Also makes cleanup better if you run a couple dry patches before adding the solvent patch because most of the residue is gone.

Absolutely

When its time to clean, remove the breach plug. Run 1 or 2 dry patches all the way through the bore. Then cleanup with whatever centerfire solvent you like. Hoppes, Break Free, Ballistol whatever as long as its not water based. I use SENT milspec CLP just because a gallon was cheap. Store with a good synthetic oil or mineral oil based CLP. If you use a petroleum based oil for storage just swab it out extra good before shooting it again. A little bit of Brake Clean or 91% isopropyl on patch works well.
 
Replied

Something that has not been mentioned.

Loose powder is cheaper even BH209 when you adjust for velocity. 80-85gr of BH209 will produce similar speed as 2 pellets. Even a little better when we start talking about 300gr bullets.

You get 73 shots at 85gr by volume or 59gr by weight from a 10oz bottle. 10 oz = 4375 gr WEIGHT
You get 50 shots from a box of T7 original pellets and even less from the Firestars since it takes 3 to make a 100gr load.

So even at full BassPro rip off price the cost per shot really is not that bad compared to pellets. No swabbing, no water based cleaners, no crud ring and you can fine tune a load easily.
$50 divided by 73 is 68 cents per shot at the rip off price and it can be found cheaper. Walmart is around $37 per bottle.

Why anyone would choose to shoot pellets is a mystery to me.
 
"Why anyone would choose to shoot pellets is a mystery to me."

Because it's easy and works "good enough". I think a very large percentage of deer hunters are just that and not shooters. They seem to abhor having to work up a load.
 
What exactly is easy about pellets in hunting?

They still need to be in a tube or something. You certainly are not walking around in the woods with a 100ct box of pellets. Pouring powder from a tube seems no harder than pouring pellets from a tube unless you are laying down? Pellets require more care in storage and fracture easily. Every pellet needs some kind of swabbing between shots which easily takes as much time as using a volume measure for loose powder.

So i walk into the field/range with premeasured BH209 loose powder in tubes. Took me a few seconds to measure each load at home. I never have to swab between my BH209 shots which gives me back those seconds and my time in the field/range is easier. If you have a RCBS Chargemaster, Redding 3BR or similar reloading powder measure you can use BH209 in it.

Nope sorry i dont get it. People have been duped into thinking its easier. They pay more for the privilege of being ignorant and getting worse performance.
 
I've never cared for the pellets either. There more expensive and harder to ignite in my opinion.
 
Pyrodex pellets are actually easier to ignite. The "igniter end" of the pellet is very similar to black powder. Lower ignition temp than loose Pyro or T7. Pyrodex though is just as corrosive or more so than real black. I would rather use Swiss than any sub other than BH209. Its a wonderful powder if you can get it. More powerful than Pyro and very very close to Triple7. Rock solid dependable too.
 
Keep preaching...with Tennessee's impending ML season at hand the shelves at Murfreesboro Sportsman's Warehouse this Sunday afternoon devoid of pyrodex and triple 7...looks like they had plenty of BH209. FYI a fella standing there ask where he might find real black powder and l told him of the only place nearby that has it stocked.
 

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I started BP hunting to extend my season back in 95', I bought a cheap CVA, those in the blister pack at Walmart and a bottle of pyrodex. I don't recall having any good way to carry premeasured shots, just a powder measure to do it in the field. So when pellets came around, you bet I jumped on it, I was using 100 grains anyway, so it was quite convenient, and never had an issue with them. A few years ago friend told me about BH209, so I gave it a try, and from the beginning it gave me issues, first it was the ignition, the #11s just weren't cutting it, but by then I had one that used the 209 primers, and they also gave me issues because I was using the BP 209s. I switched to regular primers and for the most part things were looking up, but on occasion, like when I was shooting at a doe, it failed to ignite on me, had to load a second primer. Now I read that it needs/wants magnum primers and vents? With the extra price of it, you would thing it wouldn't have all these issues. Honestly I don't see much advantage to any combo; yes BH209 shoots cleaner, which helps at the range, but after that it's usually one shot, then I have time to clean it before the next hunt. So pyrodex or Triple seven in powder or pellet form have some issues with soot and the like, but for years before BH209 I had to figure out how to hunt with those limitations and never failed to get a deer.
 
So you used a 1995 rifle design made well before BH209 and its the powders fault? You tried #11 and its the powders fault? You used more expensive ML 209s and it was the powders fault? Every mistake you made could have been prevented by going to Blackhorn209.com before you ever bought the first bottle. So clearly it was not the powder to blame, it was you and your rifle.

Almost any modern inline can be made reliable very cheaply. Virtually all of them have plugs available excluding models that require open ignition to comply with PacNW regs. Older Omegas and most new T/Cs need nothing. They ignite it just fine right out of the box. The old Savage ML-II and ML-BP worked just fine right out of the box.

I never use mag primers in my Knight/Lehigh plugs and never had a fail to fire. I paid under $30 for them and they have been flawless with a regular Win209 which are roughly half the price of a WinT7 primer. Ive shot hundreds of near slip fit conicals without a hitch and stellar accuracy so what is it im able to do that makes BH209 so elusive to others?
 
GMB54":1sp3t1re said:
So you used a 1995 rifle design made well before BH209 and its the powders fault? You tried #11 and its the powders fault? You used more expensive ML 209s and it was the powders fault? Every mistake you made could have been prevented by going to Blackhorn209.com before you ever bought the first bottle. So clearly it was not the powder to blame, it was you and your rifle.

Almost any modern inline can be made reliable very cheaply. Virtually all of them have plugs available excluding models that require open ignition to comply with PacNW regs. Older Omegas and most new T/Cs need nothing. They ignite it just fine right out of the box. The old Savage ML-II and ML-BP worked just fine right out of the box.

I never use mag primers in my Knight/Lehigh plugs and never had a fail to fire. I paid under $30 for them and they have been flawless with a regular Win209 which are roughly half the price of a WinT7 primer. Ive shot hundreds of near slip fit conicals without a hitch and stellar accuracy so what is it im able to do that makes BH209 so elusive to others?
Yes, I used a black powder substitute in a black powder rifle, paid for expensive primers and failed to read the instructions(online), as many non BP experts would. So you are basically saying I need to replace my BP rifles or modify them to use a powder that essentially does nothing for me? All my rifles I've owned have had great accuracy if I do my part, even when I used RBs, and used within their limitations. I now have a Thompson Black Diamond, and a Thompson Triumph, sold the CVA, and both can handle BH209 without any mods, but once I finish the bottle I have I doubt I will get another. Again, BH209 has it's merits, as it does seem to be a cleaner powder than the others mentioned, but that is only good for range time as I clean my ML after every hunt and usually have only fired once, I have not seen any improvements at the target. Since I now rarely hunt BP anymore, the powder I have will last for some time, so it will be many years before that happens unless I do some plinking now and then.
 
Would you expect a old Swede Mauser to handle the same loads as a modern 6.5x55?....Didnt think so. There is no difference. Modern loads need modern equipment.

Its super simple, 2 powders win at the inline matches over and over again....Swiss and mostly BH209. There must be a reason why so many are using it and winning year after year. If i was talking about a old Knight MK85 or 451 Gibbs i would grab some Swiss or OE and never look back. Either will smoke pellets from here to next Sunday for less cost per shot. Both are well suited in virtually any ignition type. Both produce speeds similar to Triple7 loose but better standard deviations.
 
GMB54":qc74jkje said:
Would you expect a old Swede Mauser to handle the same loads as a modern 6.5x55?....Didnt think so. There is no difference. Modern loads need modern equipment.

Its super simple, 2 powders win at the inline matches over and over again....Swiss and mostly BH209. There must be a reason why so many are using it and winning year after year. If i was talking about a old Knight MK85 or 451 Gibbs i would grab some Swiss or OE and never look back. Either will smoke pellets from here to next Sunday for less cost per shot. Both are well suited in virtually any ignition type. Both produce speeds similar to Triple7 loose but better standard deviations.
No, and I don't expect for a regular BP rifle to handle smokeless. And I don't shoot competitions, just hunt and plink so...
 
I say it's up to the individual and I really don't care what anyone else uses in their ML. I've had my 45 cal Encore for around 30 years and tried Pyrodex , 777 pellets until BH came out and decided to give it a try after what I had read about it. Wasn't a fan of loose powder which I had tried and at the time the pellets seemed easier. Been using BH every since and won't go back to 777 due to the grud ring and not needing hot soapy water to clean is fine by me too. I do like being able to shoot many times with no issues and find it pretty easy to have pre-loads ready to go and have 3 or 4 speed loaders along with several tubes I've made with pre-loads in them when hunting.
 

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