Looks like time for NR to start using their PP's...
- Thread starter tellico4x4
- Start date
I read the comments and some of the brought up what I always thought about Federal land. Why do the states dictate how much I pay to hunt lands I'm taxed on. The residents and I pay the same federal tax rate and we should have equal access to the federal land we pay for.
Buzzard Breath
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It's because the animals that are on the land are managed by the state. If you want to just hike on the land, it costs the same. Once you start hunting or fishing, it changes the game.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
I was building sheep point back in the mid 2000s. After 3 years of watching the point creep, I wised up and bailed, realizing I would never be able to draw a sheep tag until I was in my early 70s
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
This similar proposed system (allocating majority of NR tags to outfitted hunters with only 2% going to nonresident unguided hunters is why I no longer apply for NM tags any longer.
Got to hunt NM one time before they went to allotment. I quit then as well.
Maude
Well-Known Member
I hate to see this but I guess we saw it coming. Unfortunately, there are more states to come. It reminds me of a scene from I think it was Vegas Vacation; "It's mine, All mine!"
At least NM is random and no point structure.
The WY tag allotment math is likely to work out that no random tags will be available, per the article sheep area 2 will now take 53 points for a current 22 years point holder…better start exercising and eating healthy.
Thanks for sharing.
Yup if you EVER wanted to head west to hunt backcountry style or big game in general I'd suggest picking a state with otc and enjoy it for the next few years cause it's going to spread to other states out west. I'd say the only hope we OOS hunters have is that it cuts out a ton of revenue and they will revise it down the road. Yes huge mulies and elk are great but if you have a chance at a unit or place with subpar standards then I suggest you go and enjoy the scenery and the experience before it's choked out also. I'm just waiting on @AT Hiker to get 10,000 acres of prime hunting land so I can be a "guest or a trespasser" lol
LanceS4803
Well-Known Member
Utah does 90/10 for NR.
If I move back there I will ABSOLUTELY clean up!!
If I move back there I will ABSOLUTELY clean up!!
Do your points roll over from NR to R?
As I understand it, this new WY law (90/10) does not apply to elk.... but I suspect it will be a discuss point in the future.
WY as with many other western states Game and Fish dept. derive a substantial amount of their budget from NR's license fees every year, so they will be cautious.
WY as with many other western states Game and Fish dept. derive a substantial amount of their budget from NR's license fees every year, so they will be cautious.
LanceS4803
Well-Known Member
I don't see why not. As long as I am a legal resident of Utah. I would expect that claim to be thoroughly vetted, though!
In fact, every time I log in, it asks if I am a Resident.
They tried to pass 90/10 for all species but failed, this one went through basically unopposed.
No doubt the other species will be up for debate. Honestly, the current point system is just not realistic. Not enough game to go around for the number of hunters.
As for funding. NR fork over a lot of coin for tags, no doubt, but the amount of money we spend on the overall hunt is astounding. Never mind guided hunts, just a DIY, where you enjoy yourself and don't act too frugal, puts a hurting on the wallet.
A big beef I have with WY is their Wilderness rule toward NRs. Pretty clear to me that this rule is from the guide/guide lobby within the state.
Let's assume that they are responsible (lobbied for) for the Wilderness rule toward NR's. It would seem to me that the purpose of the rule was to drive more NRs their way for business. Now the state is going in the direction to reduce NR tags. So my question is: Are the guide/guide lobby against the trend of less tags for NRs? I don't know the answer to this.... but I haven't spend any time looking for answer I admit.
Let's assume that they are responsible (lobbied for) for the Wilderness rule toward NR's. It would seem to me that the purpose of the rule was to drive more NRs their way for business. Now the state is going in the direction to reduce NR tags. So my question is: Are the guide/guide lobby against the trend of less tags for NRs? I don't know the answer to this.... but I haven't spend any time looking for answer I admit.
arkwaterfowler
Well-Known Member
pressure on animals is the root cause but PP was doomed from the start for the WY big five. They needed somebody with some math skills on the committee when this was discussed 20 yrs ago. I've seen pressure drastically affect duck behavior in Arkansas over the last 30 years. I am happy we get to pursue white tail and long beards in this state they way we do. A quality western elk hunt is now $10 k and out of reach for a lot of folks. I don't know the answer.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
They will just increase NR license fees. Gonna cost $2000 for an elk tag out west before too long. Supply and demand.
The wilderness rule was established to drive hunters to use guides. Perfectly okay for NR to hike & fish in wilderness areas but not hunt.
With 14 PP's & being 68 years old I'm in too deep to back off, but my next three hunts ( elk, deer & antelope) there will definitely by diy. I have an enclosed trailer that I'm going to convert this summer into a mobile hunting shack just to use in WY with grandsons.
Mega is spot on about what tag costs will evolve into. In fact a "special" elk tag in WY is already over a grand.
With 14 PP's & being 68 years old I'm in too deep to back off, but my next three hunts ( elk, deer & antelope) there will definitely by diy. I have an enclosed trailer that I'm going to convert this summer into a mobile hunting shack just to use in WY with grandsons.
Mega is spot on about what tag costs will evolve into. In fact a "special" elk tag in WY is already over a grand.
The WY wilderness rule is backed up with claims of having to rescue NR hunters, believe it or not...I tend not to believe it.
Wanna hear some craziness for guide welfare? Look at what MT did last year. I you were a NR hunter that booked through a guide in 2021 and didn't draw your deer or elk tag, you could then go ahead and purchase that tag...they issued an additional 2900 extra tags just to outfitted hunters. Thats pure welfare at the expense of the states wildlife.
MT guide association has been lobbying hard lately too, they are no longer hiding it. They are lobbying for less NR DIY tags and more guide tags.
Other states, like NM and NV, both have separate guide draws. Sadly, we are headed in the wrong direction when it comes to wildlife management in this country. Its all about money.
Ive read that they will loose about $200,000 from this, which could easily be made up by increasing resident fees by $1 (Total resident hunting license, tags, permits and stamps: 256,326).
Wyoming receives approximately 48% of its total revenue from NR's. Im not smart enough to figure out what a total re-allocation of 90/10 for all tags would be but most other Western states seem to handle it. Actually, WY used to be the most NR friendly. With such a low total state population (more antelope than residents) I suppose it was very acceptable to give away so many NR tags.
I think your formula is based on current non resident tags, not on the reduced tags that will be available. Howeve, I agree they will probably make their money back with an increase in tag fees. Sometimes reduced availability increases demand, which may negate the reduced tags available and support the increased price.
LanceS4803
Well-Known Member
Huge "discussion" about this on RMEF's fb page. A few outfitters are surrounded and fighting hard, but really can't justify the position when other western states have wilderness/roadless and don't require the same thing.
Of course it is for our safety.
I call "cow excrement" on the "SAFETY" precaution. No problem with you hiking, fishing, hunting small game, bird hunting, camping, mountain climbing, horse back riding,.... as far as you want to go into the wilderness area for as almost long as you want to stay (14 day limit I think).
It was and is there because the outfitters lobbied (paid) for it. I don't think anyone could convince otherwise.
To be fair, we should acknowledge that a resident can get a permit to "guide" a NR in the wilderness area.
Let me know when you become a resident
Buzzard Breath
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Get in line. I've already called first dibs.Let me know when you become a resident
