Looking Down the Ammo Reloading Rabbit Hole

[TAFKAP]

I'm working with a guy at work on reloading both matched weight rounds for hunting, and relatively consistent rounds for plinking. He's pretty well practiced at reloading his own .223 & .308 stuff, but hasn't ever stepped out into other "recipes". I'm looking for some pointers from the reloading folks on here, so I'd appreciate your input on some recipe development.

I'm shooting a .300 Blackout. For many various reasons, I haven't been satisfied with the polymer tipped rounds (of any caliber). I've shot the Barnes VOR-TX 110gr, and I just wasn't pleased with them, and I don't think I am as good of a shooter with low mass/high velocity rounds. Typically I'd prefer a heavier bullet, and was pleased with the Remington 130gr "Hog Hammer" round, shooting the hollow-tipped Barnes TSX bullet. The Barnes recipe book for .300 AAC Blackout only shows 2 rounds, 110 (not happening) and 120gr (seems a little light).

So, what input might you have for a recipe using a 130gr Barnes TSX using IMR4227 powder? For the 120gr bullet, Barnes specifies max/min charges of 16.5gr/17.5gr H110 powder.

What stuff should we consider in developing a recipe for my rifle?

 

[Hunter 257W]

Not sure what input you are expecting regarding that specific load? All I can suggest is to try it in your rifle and see how it does. Some reloaders will try to make it sound very scientific but reloading simply isn't that complicated. You do need to be methodical and careful, but it's mainly a "try it and see the results" process. What works in my rifle might shoot terribly in somebody elses. I load for something like 20 different cartridges and have been doing so for almost 30 years. There are very few absolutes as some "Know-it-all" types seem to want to suggest.

If it were me, I'd start with the load you mentioned at the min charge and load maybe 3, then go up half a grain with 3 more and finally increase to the Max load for a final 3 shots and see what kind of accuracy you get. Always keeping a watch on pressure signs, in which case if you see them, stop shooting and pull the bullets from the rest of the cases and go with the max charge that does NOT show pressure signs. You can also experiment with bullet seating depth within the constraints of your magazine or rifle's ability to feed to see how that will affect accuracy. Of course you have to realize that changing the seating depth will affect pressure and might change what max powder charge you can use.

Not sure why you haven't had good results from polymer tipped bullets. I don't think you are ever going to see a difference between terminal performance of a 120 and 130 grain bullet assuming both are of the same general type construction. It's going to take more weight difference than that to see measurable differences. Either one is pretty light for a 30 caliber bullet. I've used a 125 gr Hornady in my 7.62x39 for deer and it makes me nervous due to it's low sectional density and in one case with a larger deer, it failed to exit leaving zero blood trail. Good thing the deer didn't run too far because I had to just walk until I found him with no clue as to where he might be from a blood trail.

 

[mrw]

How does the weight of the bullet change how accurately you shoot? Some rifles prefer heavier bullets but some don't. Generally the lighter bullets have less recoil which should help your accuracy.

 

[TAFKAP]

My observations aren't overly heavy in excessive shooting experience. I'm coming out of a .30-30 that would flat out chew through 160gr Cor-Lokts like nobody's business, and that's the rifle I've about pounded through my shoulder. The day I sighted in 130gr Lever Revolutions, they were all over the page and 1" high.

Fast forward to now, the first (2) boxes of .300BLK I shot were 110gr Barnes VOR-TX, and they weren't very consistent. Granted, it could easily be me and my MILSPEC 400lb trigger.......but I got much better consistency out of the Hog Hammer stuff. The Hog Hammer knocked down a doe in her tracks from 175 yards.

As for the "Try it and See" method, I'm way new to this and not experienced enough to really mess with it. I'm trying to reload so that I can better afford the ability to develop a more intuitive feel for ammo loads and performance. At $30/box of difficult to find rounds, I need a more economic practice method.

 

[TAFKAP]

And more confusing as well, the Barnes page calls out a smaller powder charge for a larger grain weight bullet. So it's safe to say that I can't just average the values to get a "close enough" charge. Not only that, but how the Sectional Density and Ballistic Coefficients will apply to the charge recipe.

I'm not looking for a speed demon round. I'm looking for advice for a new reloader to get a 130gr Barnes TSX bullet consistently downrange.

 

[DaveB]

Kind of important, what is barrel twist rate? Sure hope we are looking at 1 in 8

Go here for reload data. Scroll down to the 140 grain bullet weight.
http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/ ... -blackout/


Some bullet choices are here
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... dia/130-gr

 

[griz01]

You picked a bullet and a powder, so I will presume you know that will work with the barrel you have. I pick a bullet for my barrel and then use several powders because powders all burn differently and some guns just shoot better with a different powder. The process below is what I use, once with each powder I pick, then when I settle on the powder with the best group.

I generally use what is called the ladder approach. Basically I load 1 bullets starting with the minimum charge recommended by the reloading manual I am using. Then I increase the charge by .3 gr and load 1 bullet at a time until I reach the maximum recommended charge. Important!! keep track of the grains in each cartridge! Now it is time to shoot, I shoot about 3-5 rounds of commercial just to heat thing up.Now I am looking for point of impact with no correct for aim (always aim at the same spot). Starting with the lightest load and work your way up to the heaviest. look for groups, a pattern should arise. find the closest 3 shot group and that is the charge your rifle likes. Because the best 3 shot group has a charge that varies by .6 gr, you have some leeway in your reloads. Load up another box with the newly found sweet spot charge and enjoy!

Disclaimer: This is what works for me as always reloading can be dangerous always use common sense. Never exceed what a reliable reloading manual says! :tu:

 

[jetwrnch]

reloadersnest.com

https://www.loaddata.com/

 

[TAFKAP]

Kind of important, what is barrel twist rate? Sure hope we are looking at 1 in 8

Go here for reload data. Scroll down to the 140 grain bullet weight.
http://www.nosler.com/nosler-load-data/ ... -blackout/


Some bullet choices are here
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... dia/130-gr

1:9

 

[TAFKAP]

You picked a bullet and a powder, so I will presume you know that will work with the barrel you have. I pick a bullet for my barrel and then use several powders because powders all burn differently and some guns just shoot better with a different powder. The process below is what I use, once with each powder I pick, then when I settle on the powder with the best group.

I generally use what is called the ladder approach. Basically I load 1 bullets starting with the minimum charge recommended by the reloading manual I am using. Then I increase the charge by .3 gr and load 1 bullet at a time until I reach the maximum recommended charge. Important!! keep track of the grains in each cartridge! Now it is time to shoot, I shoot about 3-5 rounds of commercial just to heat thing up.Now I am looking for point of impact with no correct for aim (always aim at the same spot). Starting with the lightest load and work your way up to the heaviest. look for groups, a pattern should arise. find the closest 3 shot group and that is the charge your rifle likes. Because the best 3 shot group has a charge that varies by .6 gr, you have some leeway in your reloads. Load up another box with the newly found sweet spot charge and enjoy!

Disclaimer: This is what works for me as always reloading can be dangerous always use common sense. Never exceed what a reliable reloading manual says! :tu:

Sounds like a great starter plan.....thanks. I like the Barnes bullet because of its near-100% weight retention. I've only had the rifle about a year, so I'm still developing a feel for it. But the IMR4227 is supposedly the ideal AR powder, so that's why we're starting there.

 

[DaveB]

Nosler and Barnes use a 1 in 8 twist barrel for their 300 BLK loads in a 16 inch barrel. What this means is with your 1 in 9 twist you will tend to find accuracy issues as the bullets get heavier (longer).

 

[2in1shot]

First of all, I apologize if I sound like "Johnny Raincloud". I jumped on the 300 blk wagon about 3 years ago. I had 2 ARs in it, and like you I got them for several reasons. The main reason was the interchangeability with my other black gun stuff. I shot a lot of animals with 300 blk over the course of 2 years. You, like me, are trying to turn the blackout into something it is not. The blackout was designed to shoot people at close range with a can on. I had too many deer with no blood trail or exit hole, ALOT of hogs that carried 4-5 rounds before falling, and some that ran off never to be recovered. It took me a while to see it first hand. I sold everything blackout I had last fall. I like to kill things and the 300 blk does not do an efficient enough job on any big game. I went back to 308 in AR. It's just not enough gun for all big game hunting scenarios. I would definitely not take it to hunt big west TN bucks unless it was the only gun I owned. No ill will intended just what I saw first hand.

 

[Deer Assassin]

125 NBT OVER MAX RE15 OR ANY POWDER YOU CAN GET MAX SPEED WITH

 

[TAFKAP]

First of all, I apologize if I sound like "Johnny Raincloud". I jumped on the 300 blk wagon about 3 years ago. I had 2 ARs in it, and like you I got them for several reasons. The main reason was the interchangeability with my other black gun stuff. I shot a lot of animals with 300 blk over the course of 2 years. You, like me, are trying to turn the blackout into something it is not. The blackout was designed to shoot people at close range with a can on. I had too many deer with no blood trail or exit hole, ALOT of hogs that carried 4-5 rounds before falling, and some that ran off never to be recovered. It took me a while to see it first hand. I sold everything blackout I had last fall. I like to kill things and the 300 blk does not do an efficient enough job on any big game. I went back to 308 in AR. It's just not enough gun for all big game hunting scenarios. I would definitely not take it to hunt big west TN bucks unless it was the only gun I owned. No ill will intended just what I saw first hand.

No ill will taken. What ranges were you shooting? What round(s)?

 

[TAFKAP]

125 NBT OVER MAX RE15 OR ANY POWDER YOU CAN GET MAX SPEED WITH

What's your experience with Nosler bullets and their weight retention? I'm leaning away from them in favor of the Barnes and its ability to stay in one piece.

 

[2in1shot]

I shot Sierra prohunter SP at 2230 fps. The ranges that I saw the round struggle were 70-150 yards. I never shot over 150. The worst was a 170 lb sow hog that took 5 rounds as she tried to leave the field one morning. Upon field dress I dug bullets out that never made it to vitals and a couple that were in perfect condition except for the barrel land cut into the side of them. When a soft point bullet does not expand there's a problem.

 

[DaveB]

I have shot Partitions at all ranges on deer and 3 elk & never ever had one come apart. I switched to Accubonds a few years back. This past season i killed a deer at 12 paces and 4 others at various ranges but most over 100 yards. Never have recovered a single one and one deer went about 20 yards, the rest DRT.

I never have used Ballistic tips in the field. The warnings about distance, velocity, bone, I don't work like that. I see deer my brain tightens down on distance crosshairs trigger squeeze.

The price tag on Barnes bullets and quite a few (older) reports of unusual wound channels always kept me away. I do have some for my 7mm08 and so far accuracy is okay but no deer just yet.