Little to no blood trail...

[BUCKYJR]

I've always seemed to have issues with my muzzleloader harvests not leaving a very good blood trail. I've probably switched bullets 10xs and have settle on T/C Shockwave's 200gr for the last couple of years but still lack the blood trails I would normally get w/ a rifle. Just curious if that is typical w/ muzzleloaders in general given their makeup or if anyone has suggestions on how to get better results. I'm not complaining b/c 9 out of 10 times, my deer crash within sight but there is that one time that I just cant find my deer (like this past Sat.) due to little/no blood. I am grateful that I still harvested 2 does this past weekend (different days) but hate that I lost one--may've hit a limb for all I know. One interesting fact, I actually found the yellow plastic tip of the bullet on the inside of one doe- even with a pass through. Never had that happen... I'd heard that shots within 75-100 yds (which most of mine are) are typical to just pass through without expanding unless they hit bone. I'm just wondering if I should be using 150 gr (3 Pyrodex pellets) to expand the bullet faster or what. Again, just curious what ya'll see when using muzzleloaders...

 

[TX300mag]

Barnes Expanders

100% copper. Unbelievable expansion and retention. You will never look back. Don't be put off by the big hole. They are plenty accurate out to 200.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/422084 ... -box-of-24

That's my recommendation for blackpowder, too. I use 250g for lighter recoil for the kids, but prefer a 300g bullet in general.


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[BUCKYJR]

Wow! I've heard ALOT about Barnes...quite a difference in price, but this may be one of those cases where you get what you pay for. Wheres the cheapest place to buy them?

 

[cbhunter]

To answer your question, yes it is very common with muzzys. I shoot the same bullet you do with 2 pellets. Last two deer I have shot fell in their tracks but neither was a pass through. Bloods trails are awful with muzzys and that (for the most part) is across the board. I help track lots of deer over the years with lots of diff bullet and powder combos. Your not alone. I have shot the Barnes expanders in the past and have no complaints with them, I just prefer the cheaper stuff


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[THE DUKE]

are the barnes expanders hard to load?

 

[Mike Belt]

I shoot Barnes and have no complaints. No blood trails can spell disaster. I've shot others and although some were deadly accurate, had the problem of no pass through and very little if any blood trails. I never lost a deer because of it but the potential was there. Barnes bullets pack devastating punch.

 

[arctic_cat]

Hornady sst 250 grain with 2 Pyrodex pellets. I have only had 1 deer run. all the rest fell where they stood.

 

[String Music]

I've been using Federal B.O.R. in 270 grain this year and have been very pleased. Shot a big buck and doe this year and had a pass-thru on both. Very accurate and easy to load.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I'm using 250gr tc shockwaves. They are very accurate but I too sometimes don't get a pass through. The buck I shot this weekend I hit the shoulder so it was fully expanded well before entering the cavity. I found the bullet in the chest cavity and my fear is that the petals were gone along with the jacket. I haven't weighed it but I'm guessing weight retention is around 60-70 grains. This is not good. The description sounds like they are bonded, but this result does not reflect that. I know a shoulder will eat a bullet up, but dang, it just didn't retain enough mass to carry energy through the deer. I will say though, he folded in 10-15 yards, even if there wasn't a single drop of blood. Look at the pic, this core is about as thick as a coin. It was enough to get the job done, but a bit scary how close it was to not making it into the chest.

 

[Winchester]

Go to a Smokeless MZ with 250 grn Hornady XTP bullets and when they do run you WILL definitely have as good a blood trail as most rifle rounds. Deadly performer well beyond 200 yards.

 

[Bone Collector]

If you are going to shoot a an Inline, go to Barne's. I just switched and they are accurate. I shot a Yote yesterday morning at 25 yds and she dropped in her tracks. Almost blew her offside leg off.

I used to shoot the TC shockwaves 250 gr BONDED (that is important) bullets and the Barne's are not much more expensive than those. You get 24 in a pack (I think) vs. the 15 or 16 you get in the TC. Also even with the bonded TC bullets sometimes the blood trail was not good.

You'll need to go to a BPS, Cabelas, Gander MT. or something like that. At least those are the only places I have seen them.

 

[Hardwoodmaterials]

I have found two 250gr Barnes Expander MZ still inside the deer. Both bullets were shot with 70gr by weight of BH209. Both deer were shot quartering head on and both bullets broke the shoulder they were shot in to and was found near the opposite side ham. The rest were all complete pass thru. The bullet on the left came from a deer shot at about 10-15yds and the one on the right was at 227yds by my rangefinder. All the deer I have shot with these bullets that have run left a blood trail that is less like tracking and more like just following the red line to the deer. They are a little more expensive than some but I don't mind paying for that kind of performance. I buy them when their on sale and usually get them for $20 for a 24 pack at Grafs or Midway. You can also get them at Dunhams if your close to one of those.

 

[JeepKuntry]

I shoot TC xtp 240 grain. I have killed 4 deer with the bh209 setup with the bullet in reference. 3 left a great blood trail. The 8pt I shot Saturday evening, no blood. The deer was broadside, hit the back of the shoulder. Complete pass thru. Heard the crash but with 0 blood I waited till daylight to find.

 

[smalljawbasser]

terminal ballistics. it's how and why certain bullets act why they do under certain situations. if you shoot a bullet that is designed to fragment, don't be surprised if it doesn't pass thru. all bullets are designed to do a certain thing at certain impact velocities. if you get outside that window, don't be surprised if it doesn't do what it is designed.

most muzzleloader bullets are designed to fragment at least somewhat. it's simply easier/cheaper to design a bullet to do that at typical muzzleloader impact velocities.

if you want a blood trail, you have to make two holes in the right place on an animal. when you do your job with a typical muzzleloader bullet, and it is delivered in the correct range of impact velocities, in the correct place, it will typically make two holes and provide a blood trail.

a monolithic expanding bullet (such as a barnes expander) will stay together and make two holes a higher percentage of the time, simply because of the construction of the bullet (which costs more money since it's solid copper). but remember, you still have to do your job. which means shot placement, and correct impact velocities.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/killing_deer_bullet.htm

 

[Urban_Hunter]

If you are going to shoot a an Inline, go to Barne's. I just switched and they are accurate. I shot a Yote yesterday morning at 25 yds and she dropped in her tracks. Almost blew her offside leg off.

I used to shoot the TC shockwaves 250 gr BONDED (that is important) bullets and the Barne's are not much more expensive than those. You get 24 in a pack (I think) vs. the 15 or 16 you get in the TC. Also even with the bonded TC bullets sometimes the blood trail was not good.

You'll need to go to a BPS, Cabelas, Gander MT. or something like that. At least those are the only places I have seen them.

That pic I posted is of a bonded TC shockwave. That's why I posted it, doesn't seem too bonded to me.

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I have found two 250gr Barnes Expander MZ still inside the deer. Both bullets were shot with 70gr by weight of BH209. Both deer were shot quartering head on and both bullets broke the shoulder they were shot in to and was found near the opposite side ham. The rest were all complete pass thru. The bullet on the left came from a deer shot at about 10-15yds and the one on the right was at 227yds by my rangefinder. All the deer I have shot with these bullets that have run left a blood trail that is less like tracking and more like just following the red line to the deer. They are a little more expensive than some but I don't mind paying for that kind of performance. I buy them when their on sale and usually get them for $20 for a 24 pack at Grafs or Midway. You can also get them at Dunhams if your close to one of those.

That's what I'm looking for! I'm already a huge fan of the Barnes TTSX, looks like this is the ML variety!

 

[catman529]

I've only killed 3 deer with a ML, one left a great blood trail, another dropped in its tracks, and the third was a head-on shot that grazed the ribcage and demolished the shoulder, with very little blood trail because it didn't puncture the chest, however the shock still ruptured lung and killed the deer. Was using Hornady XTP Mag 300 grain but switched to XTP Hunter 240 grain cause I couldn't find the 300s in any store I looked. I like them and they aren't expensive


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[lungpuncher1]

Started shooting nosler muzzleloading bullets and love them so far.

 

[psubuzz]

I also shoot the TC shockwaves with 2 pellets. I also have the same exact issues youre having. I have killed probably 15 deer with my ML always using that load, and I've never missed, or lost a deer. That being said, almost every deer I've shot I had 0 blood where they stood and for about the first 5-10 yards. After that it usually turns into a murder scene and I've never had one go more than 75 yards. About half of them piled up where they stood. I've learned not to expect blood at the spot of the shot, but to go to where they stood and walk the direction they ran and I haven't lost one yet. Until I do, I'll keep shooting them

 

[Urban_Hunter]

Go to a Smokeless MZ with 250 grn Hornady XTP bullets and when they do run you WILL definitely have as good a blood trail as most rifle rounds. Deadly performer well beyond 200 yards.

I hear ya big $$$

 

[pass-thru]

Since 2005 I have used 150 grains of 777 and 250 grain shockwaves. I have taken close to 50 deer with this set up. Most deer drop after a very short distance. I had a gut shot doe go 4-500 yards last year but still was able to find her. That was my fault.

Usually the blood trail is sufficient to find easily. The load does it's job. I shot a mature buck two years ago and took out both shoulders with the shot. The bullet lodged just under the hid on the off shoulder. The biggest advantage is the accuracy of the load in my Omega. I drive tacks with it. When I switched scopes a few years ago I zeroed it at 100 yards. At 200 yards the first shot hit the 2" bull. That kind of consistent lethal accuracy out to 250 yards overrides any concern on the blood trail for me.

 

[Hardwoodmaterials]

Are you saying your M/L has less than an inch of drop between zero at 100yds and 200yds using 150gr T7 and a 250gr Shockwave? My M/L using 70gr by weight(100gr by volume) BH209 and a 250gr Barnes Expander set at 2in high at 100yds will be 9 inches low at 200yds.

 

[pass-thru]

Are you saying your M/L has less than an inch of drop between zero at 100yds and 200yds using 150gr T7 and a 250gr Shockwave?

no, the scope reticle has a hash marks specific to the load....so once zeroed at 100, there is no guesswork at 150, 200, 250

Even so, the load performs that well in my Omega.

 

[Hardwoodmaterials]

Ha-Ha I thought I must be shooting the high arching rainbow M/L if there was that much difference! My scope has the hash marks for drop also. I have a love hate relationship with them! LOL

 

[pass-thru]

yes....the plex reticle is much better for quick shots under 100!

 

[Riverday]

Go to a Smokeless MZ with 250 grn Hornady XTP bullets and when they do run you WILL definitely have as good a blood trail as most rifle rounds. Deadly performer well beyond 200 yards.

If i have to spend 1500 dollars or more for a Smokeless MZ , loader i will just wait for gun season...the fun of MZ loading is shooting the old smokepole...

 

[Grundy.308]

I shot this yote with the Barnes Tez 300 grain it dropped in its tracks but as you can see blood was everywhere I switched to Barnes this year and I love them thus far.


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[usanglure]

Neck shoot them and they drop to ground, pass thru or not? I did quit using power belt after 2 face on shots i found the bullets in the rear hind quarters with absolutely zero expansion, i rea lly liked the ease of loading and they shot very well out of my Omega. I tried several different bullets for accuracy, and because I had heard expansion was good with them. I tried Barnes but was worried about the hole and possible deformation upon seating the bullet and affecting accuracy. I would love to get some gelatin and test all of them that way. But in the final, shot placement is what its all about.....

 

[Hunter 257W]

The only bullet I've killed deer with in a ML is the TC 200 gr Shockwave with 100gr of 777 pellets. Two deer were facing me and the bullet wasn't able to penetrate the full length of their body so did not exit, and I wouldn't expect any deer load to do that anyhow, so there was practically no blood. One of those dropped like struck by lighting anyhow so it didn't matter. The other ran in a small circle then suddenly dropped. The 3rd deer killed with this load was a broadside hit behind the shoulder at around 50 or 60 yards. The bullet passed through. It ran maybe 50 or 60 yards and there was a pretty good blood trail.

I really hoped to get to try out my own cast bullets this year on a deer but since I only got to hunt one morning with the ML it didn't work out. I'm quitting the 200 gr Shockwave not because it lacked anything but mainly to see if something else might work even better when I do have to shoot at raking angles. A 300 grain bullet is definitely going to outdo a 200gr for that job. So far I've got good results with water filled milk jugs as they are penetrating 4 and stopping in the 5th and expanding to around 75 caliber(staring out 44 caliber) and retaining 99% weight. Not bad at all. :)

 

[Crosshairy]

I've been shooting the Barnes bullets since I bought a CVA Optima.

The bore on the CVA is pretty tight, and the Barnes bullets are classic for having a snug fit.

I started using Bore Butter on the outside of the bullet (I just smear a pea-sized lump around the base/sides of the bullet) and it loads easier.

I've been pleased with the bullet performance so far, but I've only shot 1 doe, so my data set is rather small :)