Little "T"

[stik]

any folks that remember the phenominal trout fishing that was ruined by tellico dam? many times we would put in at chilhowee dam and take a 3 day float all the way back to lenoir city. i would love to see tellico dam dismantled. anybody got any memories to share?

 

[oldmanelrod]

The Little T helped me to turn 4 years of Maryville College into 6 years. First big trout river I fished.

 

[scn]

any folks that remember the phenominal trout fishing that was ruined by tellico dam? many times we would put in at chilhowee dam and take a 3 day float all the way back to lenoir city. i would love to see tellico dam dismantled. anybody got any memories to share?

I spent many weekends on the Little T and got into fly fishing and fly tying in a major way during that time. I can still picture the 23" brown I caught on one of my big stoneflies. There will never be another TN river with the diverse insect life and extreme growth rate for trout. It was called the Madison East for very good reason.

I learned to hate politicians when Howard Baker lied about letting the ESA control the life of the river. He changed the act after we beat him in court. It pretty much broke my heart to the point that I rarely trout fished for 30+ years until Gil hooked me up on the Caney and awoke the monster.

I was working illegal fox hunting down there the night the legal thugs bulldozed and burned Nellie McCalls house so they could steal her land for Tellico redevelopement. I can still remember watching the flames bounce off the clouds and finding out later what had been done. I hope some folks burn in hell for the way they treated that lady.

So, yeah, stik, some very strong and emotional memories of a very special place.

 

[RUGER]

Wow, didn't know about all that.

 

[blountcountyboy]

I love to set and listen to the older local guys talk about fishing that river. They tell of going up Citico Creek and catching one big brown after another when they left the "T" to spawn. These same guys echo what you said SCN, that there will be a special place in hell for the bas*(& that did what they did to so many people. My wife's family owned several hundred acres of bottom land on the upper end and after it was all said and done they TOOK it all for what all but amounted to nothing. What upsets most people is how much this prime lake front property goes for nowadays. I've heard that Tellico was built for the sole purpose of recreation. I guess that is true because there is no electric generation coming from Tellico dam.

I have a question tho. I have heard so many old timers talk about going in and picking up HUGE dead trout after they sprayed the water to kill everything. Why would they have sprayed to kill everything?

 

[scn]

Wow, didn't know about all that.

The Little T was recognized by many in the trout and outdoor writing world as the best trout stream east of the MS River. That is saying something when you take into account the storied streams in the northeastern states and Michigan. The insect hatches on the river were extremely diverse and prolific, and the trout grew really fast because of it. It had several species of stoneflies which are only found in very well oxygentated and pure streams and caddis hatches that looked like clouds coming off the water.

It also had some of the best agricultural land in ETN. And, more importantly, it was the birthplace of the Cherokee Nation. The meaning of that land for those Native Americans was immesurable.

And, it all got put under water so some of the well-connected could get rich(er) on land deals where imminent domain stole it for a pittiance and was sold at astronomical rates later. And, some foks have another pretty place to jet ski.

Hope it was worth it to them........

 

[scn]

I love to set and listen to the older local guys talk about fishing that river. They tell of going up Citico Creek and catching one big brown after another when they left the "T" to spawn. These same guys echo what you said SCN, that there will be a special place in hell for the bas*(& that did what they did to so many people. My wife's family owned several hundred acres of bottom land on the upper end and after it was all said and done they TOOK it all for what all but amounted to nothing. What upsets most people is how much this prime lake front property goes for nowadays. I've heard that Tellico was built for the sole purpose of recreation. I guess that is true because there is no electric generation coming from Tellico dam.

I have a question tho. I have heard so many old timers talk about going in and picking up HUGE dead trout after they sprayed the water to kill everything. Why would they have sprayed to kill everything?

I never heard the stories on the spraying, but nothing that some of that bunch from TVA did would surprise me. When the courts were still considering stopping the construction of Tellico Dam TVA went to a 24/7 schedule so they could have more money tied up in the construction to wiggle the figures in their favor. I cost myself a chance at a TVA fisheries job by bringing that up to an adjuant professor from TVA in a Special Problems class. There is no telling how much money that has cost me over the years, but I sleep pretty good most nights.

The Little T brings back some of the best, and worst, memories for me.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

I have a really good powerpoint presentation developed by Billy Minser you would like to see Steve. We presented it a few years ago at the public meetings when we finally got enough people motivated to put an end to the TVA land sales/swaps. Billy organized in Knoxville and called me to organize in Chattanooga. We made an impression.

I never got to fish the Little T, but I can remember my dad would get emotional when he would talk about the lost fishery. he truly loved fishing there.

One day when I was returning from am Ichthyology field trip with Dr. Etnier dad came to pick me up and demanded I introduce him. I thought that was weird, but I did it. He spent the next 30 minutes telling Ets how much he admired him for his efforts trying to stop the Tellico Dam.

 

[scn]

I was taking ichthyology under Ets when the fight was going on. What a rollercoaster of emotions as ETS and crew won and then had it snatched away by Baker. It was where I got my rude awakening that Lady Justice could be bought and paid for-or at least where the politicos could change the game in mid-game. Like your Dad, it is a pretty emotional subject for me as well. It was that special of a fishery and was part of our ETN mountain culture.

I'd love to see the powerpoint at some time. Billy Minser is another one of the special persons put on this earth to fight for the little guy and what is right.

 

[stik]

scn,
i see that we have a lot of the same feelings on this. shameful what they did to those people.i was a VERY vocal opponent to tellico dam. so much so that the FBI paid me a visit when the"scarecrow" was doing his thing. i'm still bitter 30+ years later.

 

[gil1]

I don't think I've ever seen a more angry group than those remembering the fate of the Little T. I wasn't around for any of it, but it must have been "JUST PLAIN WRONG." It seems those hard feelings will never die.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

I don't think I've ever seen a more angry group than those remembering the fate of the Little T. I wasn't around for any of it, but it must have been "JUST PLAIN WRONG." It seems those hard feeling will never die.

The hard feeling will never go away.....See my tag line.

 

[7mm08]

Didn't TVA buy the land for $249 per acre? This was told to me by a friend who's family owned a half mile river front.

and wasn't it our great president Carter that actually overturned a National Wild and Scenic river act to start the damming process. The same great president that does Habitat homes but i bet has not set foot in those poor counties in and around Tellico.

PS..They say the caddis hatches were so great you had to fish with a bandana over your mouth to keep from sucking in the flies during a hatch.

What a pity. Can you imagine the economic benefit to the area today for sportsman coming to fish such a river?

 

[Diehard Hunter]

You can't just pin this one on Carter. Both the house and senate were under democratic control, but the republican leader was our very own Howard baker and he was just as, if not more to blame. The simple fact of the matter is...the big money developers got their way. Yes, Carter was president, but you have to lay the blame where it belongs, on ALL the crooked politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle.

In fact, you can thank Carter for a lot of environmental reclamation, including several superfund sites right here in our back yard (oak ridge) and the ability to make beer if you want to without having a government license.

 

[B.D.]

I never got to fish the Little T, and it pains me that I didn't. What a stupid, stupid waste, and all to line the pockets of a handful of land developers.

The irony is, with the way trout fishing has taken off since the 1970s, the real estate out there would probably be worth more if they'd just left it alone. It would be like riverfront property on the Caney Fork times 100.

I wish they'd find structural problems under Tellico Dam like they have under Center Hill and Wolf Creek. If we ever got to a point where it needed to be repaired, maybe we'd have a toehold to argue that they ought to just tear that worthless dam down.

I don't think I'll see Tellico Dam taken down in my lifetime, but if we all keep this discussion alive and spread the word about how it was before, maybe my kids or grandkids will see the Little T flow freely again.

bd

 

[blountcountyboy]

I have another question?

Would the "Little T" have been the trout river that it was if it hadn't been for the building of Chilhowee dam? The reason I ask is, if I'm not mistaken, Chilhowee was built in '46??? So I doubt many can remember if the trout were there as goog before Chilhowee. I believe that Chilhowee took several communities as well if I'm not mistaken.

I have a friend who's step family owned over 1000 acres on the river and they took all but, a small part of it. His step fathers dad (in his 80s) was cutting locust trees for fence posts on TVA land that adjoins theres and his son said "dad you know your on TVA don't ya?" The dad replied "As much as they took from us son they had better not say a word about these d*^&^ trees that I once owned."

 

[shudy]

Blount county boy,


Yes Chilhowee was built before Tellico and it was apparently a good trout river after Chilhowee was built. Chilhowee dam was built in the mid 50s and was finished in 57. Chilhowee is a ALCOA dam along with Calderwood Dam. The generation is possible through permission by TVA. The tailwater at Chilhowee is still apparently a good tailwater for trout according to some people but not like it used to be. I have a story on how the canal came to be as well for Tellico and Ft Loudoun. Its not my story but came from someone working on the project. I wont tell it here as I am ashamed to say I used to work at TVA. I hope all the developers and Tellico Villagers are happy with what theyve done.

Shudy

 

[Piddler]

There was a fish kill below Chilhowee Dam on the Little T. It was a long time ago and I don't rember if it was by TVA or TWRA. As I remember it was to kill unwanted trash fish prior to a big trout stocking. People were invited to come and pickup all the fish they wanted. I don't remember if Rotenon was used or something else. It had to be something that was not poison.

I was a teenager at the time and now am 76. So it may have been close to 50 years ago. Time destroys some memories.

Building Tellico DAm was the biggest crime ever created by TVA to to people.

 

[B.D.]

I imagine that the Little T was a better trout stream after Chilhowee, since the river would run colder out of Chilhowee Dam, and that would make it liveable for trout.

Still, at least Chilhowee had a legitimate purpose - essential power generation for Alcoa. Can you imagine the mess if they had tried to accomplish that with a coal burning plant instead of a hydropower dam?

Tellico dam wasn't needed for power generation, and really it had minimal significance for flood control. It was primarily about creating valuable lakefront real estate for development.

bd

 

[Doskil]

Aren't brown and rainbow trout still stocked below Chilhowee Dam?

 

[Buzzard Breath]

Aren't brown and rainbow trout still stocked below Chilhowee Dam?

I've caught rainbows below Chilhowee, but never a brown. Doesn't mean they are not there, but it may just say something about my fishing ability.

 

[B.D.]

Yes, but basically what you have now is just a marginal trout tailwater that only lasts for a limited distance until it hits Tellico Lake and gets too warm, rather than dozens of miles of world-class trophy trout stream like nothing else east of the Mississippi.

bd

 

[B.D.]

I wonder if it would ever be possible to get enough people together to start a "movement" to decommission Tellico Dam? It's never too late to undo a mistake.

bd

 

[shorefisherman]

i would love to see that dam dismantled..it has been done in other states like washington state for salmon to migrate and complete the spawn cycle. i remember scn telling me about the little tn how good it was before my time, but i highly dought it would happen.....all thems yankees would have a fit to have a riverview property. it would need a good reason and evidence to prove for dismantle

 

[GRAMPS]

I had a chance to float fish the Little "T" right before the dam was built. For some reason, I decided not to fish with the college friend that invited me. I have always regretted that decision after talking to fisherman that fished the river. Can not remember why I did not go along on the trip as it was a long time ago. :(

 

[oldmanelrod]

I have caught them in Chilhowee Lake. Fished the area where Abrams Creek empties into the lake and had some luck. B.D. is right about the way the Little T is and was.

 

[B.D.]

Well the odds are against the dam ever coming down, but if there's any way to do it, then discussions like these are the first step. It would certainly be a victory like no other if they took that dam down one day.

bd

 

[shudy]

I would certainly be in favor of taking the dam down. If it could ever happen I think when the waters came down people would be amazed at the things TVA dumped into the bottom of the lake. It would be a pretty good sized clean up effort to clear everything out.
BD it would be a perfect place for our Gheenoes.

Shudy

 

[B.D.]

If I were more tech-savvy, I'd at least like to put up a website dedicated to tearing down Tellico Dam. I'd like to collect stories of what it used to be like, and maybe a discussion of the environmental and cultural damage caused by that reservoir (including destruction of habitat for endangered species and inundation of sacred Cherokee lands). It would be a good place to talk about how little benefit we really get from Tellico Reservoir, and the massive value that a restored Little T potentially could have to our state's economy.

That might help get people thinking about it, anyway. First step down a long road.

bd

 

[trealtree]

If I were more tech-savvy, I'd at least like to put up a website dedicated to tearing down Tellico Dam. I'd like to collect stories of what it used to be like, and maybe a discussion of the environmental and cultural damage caused by that reservoir (including destruction of habitat for endangered species and inundation of sacred Cherokee lands). It would be a good place to talk about how little benefit we really get from Tellico Reservoir, and the massive value that a restored Little T potentially could have to our state's economy.

That might help get people thinking about it, anyway. First step down a long road.

bd

You could set one up on facebook in about 15 minutes. A "Save cummins falls" page was set up and it helped raise money to buy the property for public use.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Cumm ... 4696261099