Lets try this ? again

[Grill-n-man]

Ok let me ask this again and see if can be answered without being locked out. I have pondered over this for many years and am simply looking for a clear definition and/or legal clarification as to the explanation of. I once asked a game warden what the definition of bait was and was told that it was any type of food source that is not naturally occurring used to attract wildlife for the purpose of taking wildlife. Now here is the question that I have yet to get an answer for. What is the difference between going out and pouring lets say corn out in the middle of 100 acres of pine to attract wildlife for the purpose of taking wildlife verses going out into the same 100 acres of pines and clearing, planting, and growing turnips, glover, corn, etc to attract wildlife for the purpose of taking wildlife? Both are a non naturally occurring food source and both are being used to attract wildlife for the purpose of taking wildlife. The last time I asked this it got two, if you want to call it answers, and was locked. Now I do the difference between farming and food plots, pouring verses growing, providing habitat for wildlife verses attracting for the purpose of taking, yada yada. My question is What is the specific legal difference between the two when both are being used for the single purpose to attract wildlife to take. And the response of pouring is illegal and growing it isn't doesn't sum it up.

 

[Hunt 365]

get nominated to the TWRA Commission and change it

 

[Savage]

It's the act of harvesting the finished product that makes it illegal. When you plant, you aren't putting out a finished product like you would be if you poured out a bag of corn. Same reason a corn crop can be bushhogged. - it was never harvested. Also why you can hunt acorns, but not if you put them there.

 

[TN Larry]

From what I have read, it is more of a health concern than it is a concern of attracting and killing. When bait is poured out, it is poured in one single, small area where deer congregate and eat. Their saliva can be shared since it is in one little spot thus having the chance of spreading a contagious disease to the herd. Salt does the same thing in terms of congregating in one area, but the salt mostly kills the bacteria. A food plot can bring the deer in too but in most cases will spread the deer out in a wider area thus not all deer coming into contact with each other and reducing the chance of spreading disease. That sort of makes sense and biological health reasons is supposed to be the concerns. Now, other states do allow it, but the health reasons is supposed to be the issue here. Personally, I don't care either way.

 

[102]

In my humble opinion, here is my answer,

If you are putting out a food source strictly for the purpose of attracting an animal for the purpose of killing it, you are baiting.
For me, this includes food plots.

Apparently some food plots are legal for this purpose.

But in the end, I believe that baiting will become legal, eventually.

 

[leader]

Legal in parts of GA....

 

[Winchester]

I too think baiting will be legal in TN before too long. I could care less just my opinion.

 

[Planking]

I plant food plots because its better for all the wildlife than the fescue that was there. Yes i hunt in them sometimes but they are not my most productive spots. I think its a great practice that benefits many different species of wildlife in this state, not just deer. I see all kinds of crazy critters using the plots year around. Besides yourself, what does pouring out a pile of corn benefit?

 

[Grill-n-man]

Didn't think about the health issue and finished product points. Didn't even think of that and it makes sense so thanks for that. To help some, corn is an example of, not a specific. And what does pouring out corn benefit? Lets see how about birds, turkey, raccoons, squirrels,- should I go on. Educate yourself on the animals in nature and re read the question as the question is a very simple one.

 

[DeerKiller2012]

They might as well legalize it. It's obvious a bunch people are doing it every year. I know it ain't everyone on here but around my area people bait like crazy. I personally don't just because its not legal and it's not worth my gun, bow, or truck, or being interrupted while I actually get to sit in my stand a few hours . Deer patterns are already screwed up by people baiting, road riding, spotlighting. So might as Well legalize baiting and focus on the other two since that's a little easier to work with less manpower. I'd rather them bust all these people shooting deer with rifles during bow and muzzleloader myself . . This is just an opinion so don't be rude.

 

[Frank G]

I'm not a fan of hunting over "bait" or with dogs. Seems to "mock" the word hunting. Food plots on the other hand is still right brain left brian. I have 3 and don�t hunt over them, although the deer are rather healthy and the turkey are �plump�. Mineral licks are OK but dumping a truck load of corn on the ground would not get my vote.

 

[Jmed]

I dont think its a scientific question, but an ethical one. In places like texas and florida, where baiting is legal, I bet they wouldnt kill half the deer they do out of those sendaros and swamps. But here in TN, I dont think we have to bait to have harvest opportunities. I feel like I earned my kill by putting in the time to plant and cultivate the land. Dumping out a bag of corn takes no effort, thought, and does not offer long-term benifits to the entire ecosystem as planting does.

My prediction:

Baiting will one day be legal in TN. As well as Gay Marriage, and Medical Marijuana. For now these 3 things are taboo in TN and thats fine with me

 

[Planking]

Didn't think about the health issue and finished product points. Didn't even think of that and it makes sense so thanks for that. To help some, corn is an example of, not a specific. And what does pouring out corn benefit? Lets see how about birds, turkey, raccoons, squirrels,- should I go on. Educate yourself on the animals in nature and re read the question as the question is a very simple one.

A corn pile last a few days. It also concentrates the animals in one spot increasing the risk for disease for them as previously stated. This is proven. I have a degree in wildlife biology from TTU. Sounds like you are the one lacking education on nature bud. Maybe if you keep reading on here you can educate yourself on how to kill a deer. You could always hire a guide.

 

[BSK]

To help some, corn is an example of, not a specific. And what does pouring out corn benefit? Lets see how about birds, turkey, raccoons, squirrels,- should I go on. Educate yourself on the animals in nature and re read the question as the question is a very simple one.

I agree Grill-n-man, hunters should thoroughly educate themselves about any pertinent hunting topic. I especially think they should educate themselves on the real damage pouring corn out does for wildlife, especially during the fall months. In studies in the Southeast, 50% of bait corn piles tested had high enough levels of aflatoxin to be deadly to turkey and certainly make deer sick. Aflatoxin poisoning of corn is a serious problem, and will either kill or make sick most mammals or birds that eat the infected corn.

Another issue is nutrition. Corn is considered a very low-quality food source for deer, outside of the winter months. The carbohydrates provided can be a good energy food in the dead of winter, but in summer and fall, it would be a food source much lower in nutrition than anything grown in a food plot. Plus it tends to act as a stomach-filler, preventing animals from eating healthier foods. Kind of like kids filling up on candy. They like it, but the pure sugars aren't really that good for them.

Numerous research papers have been written on the positives and negatives of baiting, supplemental feeding, and food plots. I promise you, food plots have their negatives as well. However baiting has very, very few positives, and none of them nutritional.

 

[Frank G]

BSK ........ you ARE the "Guru" in my book. A wealth of knowledge based on fact. Keep posting.

 

[deerhunter10]

imo the corn piles are d4ng more damage to our turkey population then anything else. because people really don't educate themselves and understand the damage a simple corn pile can do.

 

[Grill-n-man]

Look guys the question is not about corn piles, should you use bait, what does it do to wildlife, its nutritional values, etc. I know about what happens to corn as it sets yada yada. Corn was obviously a bad example so forget about corn. The question is and still remains WHAT is the actual legal difference as defined by the law between when you pile up anything to hunt over where the only purpose is to take wildlife verses planting something to hunt over for the sole purpose of taking wildlife? And no I don't need a guide, food plots, corn piles, or a $50,000 education to take deer but thanks for the advise.

 

[knightrider]

the difference is the law!!! duhhh :grin:

 

[THE DUKE]

Would a feeder that only put out small portions of something be harmful, I personally dont see how whatever got put out would be eaten before it turned bad?

 

[DaveB]

Personally, I like to outsmart what I hunt, not whack them over a pile of bait.

Nothing wrong with food plots although I can see the similarity to baiting and lets change corn to these attractants. They work so well its unreal. A great way to get trail cam pics, illegal to hunt over as it should be.

 

[BSK]

Look guys the question is not about corn piles, should you use bait, what does it do to wildlife, its nutritional values, etc. I know about what happens to corn as it sets yada yada. Corn was obviously a bad example so forget about corn. The question is and still remains WHAT is the actual legal difference as defined by the law between when you pile up anything to hunt over where the only purpose is to take wildlife verses planting something to hunt over for the sole purpose of taking wildlife? And no I don't need a guide, food plots, corn piles, or a $50,000 education to take deer but thanks for the advise.

I still don't know what you are asking. Are you asking what the difference is ethically or legally? Legally, you can grow food out of the ground to attract wildlife but you cannot pour food out to attract deer. If it grows out of the ground, it's legal. If it is food poured on the ground or into a trough or spin-feeder, it is not legal. Simple as that.

Now ethically? Very little difference in my opinion...

 

[Public land rat]

Just my opinion, but the toxins in the corn, like bsk said is obviously a bad deal, toxic. One can understand that being a valid reason for baiting to be illegal. But saying that corn congregates deer in a area that potentially increases the spread of diseases doesn't make sense. Salt licks concentrate a lot of deer in a 2 ft. area, and they are licking, licking the same area. Trophy Rocks aren't natural, but legal, wouldn't this pass a transmitted disease faster than a corn pile? I don't put out corn, to dang expensive, but I think that a lot more people do it than admit it, just walk around a hunting lease, but to each his own, and who am I to judge another man?

 

[BSK]

Would a feeder that only put out small portions of something be harmful, I personally dont see how whatever got put out would be eaten before it turned bad?

Aflatoxin is the byproduct of a mold. Corn can become deadly to wildlife within just days, even if it is inside of an enclosed spin feeder. It can be deadly before it ever comes out of the feeder.

 

[Cy]

Like any other law, somebody says "I think it should be okay to plant stuff (pick anything but corn) to attract deer, but I don't think it should be OK just to dump it out of a sack".

Somebody else said "OK by me, let's vote on it".

And they did, and that was enough. This isn't physics where "this" reaction happens because of "that" action, every time and everywhere that action occurs. It's laws, rules, regulations, etc. put forward, discussed, approved and interpreted by legislators, committees, officials, officers, courts, etc., some of whom may actually know what they are doing, and certainly many who don't.

Why is it illegal to shoot albino deer? Because some legislator's campaign contributor thinks they are cute. (I heard.) Doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't make it any less binding if you get caught dragging one out of the woods.

 

[BSK]

But saying that corn congregates deer in a area that potentially increases the spread of diseases doesn't make sense. Salt licks concentrate a lot of deer in a 2 ft. area, and they are licking, licking the same area. Trophy Rocks aren't natural, but legal, wouldn't this pass a transmitted disease faster than a corn pile? I don't put out corn, to dang expensive, but I think that a lot more people do it than admit it, just walk around a hunting lease, but to each his own, and who am I to judge another man?

Public land rat,

Your idea makes a lot of sense. However, first, Trophy Rocks are natural (they are just chunks of natural salt deposit pulled out of the ground, just like a real salt lick), and second, the high saline environment of a salt block or rock will kill most living organisms (ruptures cell walls and kills through dehydration). HOWEVER, this high saline environment will NOT destroy the prion that causes CWD. In fact, there is evidence a high saline environment might actually enhance the viability of the CWD prion. Therefore, I would highly, highly recommend AGAINST using salt licks in any area that is know to have CWD or is close to a known CWD outbreak.

 

[BSK]

Like any other law, somebody says "I think it should be okay to plant stuff (pick anything but corn) to attract deer, but I don't think it should be OK just to dump it out of a sack".

Somebody else said "OK by me, let's vote on it".

And they did, and that was enough. This isn't physics where "this" reaction happens because of "that" action, every time and everywhere that action occurs. It's laws, rules, regulations, etc. put forward, discussed, approved and interpreted by legislators, committees, officials, officers, courts, etc., some of whom may actually know what they are doing, and certainly many who don't.

Of course there are good reasons baiting is illegal. Many have already been posted. However, those who want to bait but don't have land to plant food plots will argue until they are blue in the face that there is no good reason to make baiting illegal, no matter how many good reasons are given. That's just Human Nature.

 

[WG Taxidermist]

Like any other law, somebody says "I think it should be okay to plant stuff (pick anything but corn) to attract deer, but I don't think it should be OK just to dump it out of a sack".

Somebody else said "OK by me, let's vote on it".

And they did, and that was enough. This isn't physics where "this" reaction happens because of "that" action, every time and everywhere that action occurs. It's laws, rules, regulations, etc. put forward, discussed, approved and interpreted by legislators, committees, officials, officers, courts, etc., some of whom may actually know what they are doing, and certainly many who don't.

Why is it illegal to shoot albino deer? Because some legislator's campaign contributor thinks they are cute. (I heard.) Doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't make it any less binding if you get caught dragging one out of the woods.

Couldnt have said it better myself!

 

[BSK]

Couldnt have said it better myself!

See what I mean?

 

[WG Taxidermist]

Like any other law, somebody says "I think it should be okay to plant stuff (pick anything but corn) to attract deer, but I don't think it should be OK just to dump it out of a sack".

Somebody else said "OK by me, let's vote on it".

And they did, and that was enough. This isn't physics where "this" reaction happens because of "that" action, every time and everywhere that action occurs. It's laws, rules, regulations, etc. put forward, discussed, approved and interpreted by legislators, committees, officials, officers, courts, etc., some of whom may actually know what they are doing, and certainly many who don't.

Of course there are good reasons baiting is illegal. Many have already been posted. However, those who want to bait but don't have land to plant food plots will argue until they are blue in the face that there is no good reason to make baiting illegal, no matter how many good reasons are given. That's just Human Nature.

Its not just land. Most people dont have the equipment nor the funds to plant 10 different plots here and there. Im not saying I agree with baiting because I dont. I think its more about money and politics imo. You can go to walmart and buy any kind of bait you want in a state that its illegal to use during season. If its such a big deal as far as diseases and what not why cant the state make them stop selling it. Imo there wouldnt be as many tickets wrote.

 

[Cy]

[/quote]Of course there are good reasons baiting is illegal. Many have already been posted. However, those who want to bait but don't have land to plant food plots will argue until they are blue in the face that there is no good reason to make baiting illegal, no matter how many good reasons are given. That's just Human Nature. [/quote]

I'm not attempting to answer the "why is there air" question. Many believe it is ethical to hunt over bait even though it is illegal. (I believe it is ethical to shoot white deer with pink eyes.) Where the community believes that there is too much range in the ethics of its citizens, it often steps in and tightens things up with laws, ordinances, regulations, etc. In other words, they define what's legal and take the ethics arguments out of it. Often those that define what's legal/illegal bone it up pretty good because they don't have sufficient knowledge, use good common sense, etc., resulting in "white deer laws".

I read the original OP's post as an ethics question, which may be in error.