Let's Talk Catoosa

[quackaholic]

I've got the upcoming muzzleloader hunt starting the 24th. I haven't been in a good long while, and I keep hearing negative statements about it. Then I got curious, on the short 9 day bow hunt, the area killed 70 deer, and at least 2 bears. I don't know how many hogs, I didn't check. So I scrolled through all wma data and nowhere put up comparable numbers; of the which, most have been open all season. Some of those had done had some muzzleloader hunts. Now granted it wasn't a large number of bucks taken, but given the fact the bowhunt there is probably the worst part of the year to see mature bucks. I say mature because antler requirement puts them on the mature side. So why do so many say it sucks now?

 

[Tenntrapper]

I've got the upcoming muzzleloader hunt starting the 24th. I haven't been in a good long while, and I keep hearing negative statements about it. Then I got curious, on the short 9 day bow hunt, the area killed 70 deer, and at least 2 bears. I don't know how many hogs, I didn't check. So I scrolled through all wma data and nowhere put up comparable numbers; of the which, most have been open all season. Some of those had done had some muzzleloader hunts. Now granted it wasn't a large number of bucks taken, but given the fact the bowhunt there is probably the worst part of the year to see mature bucks. I say mature because antler requirement puts them on the mature side. So why do so many say it sucks now?

We go there sometimes. It's big, thick, and tons of people wanting to hunt the same spot.
We usually try to find an area that no one is in.
We've seen deer, but never killed anything but time there.
Don't hate it...but didn't put in for it this year.
Going to chuck Swan instead.

 

[quackaholic]

We go there sometimes. It's big, thick, and tons of people wanting to hunt the same spot.
We usually try to find an area that no one is in.
We've seen deer, but never killed anything but time there.
Don't hate it...but didn't put in for it this year.
Going to chuck Swan instead.

Chuck Swan is a little more irritating to me to hunt. However, I have a soft spot for it. I really just wanted a place the resembles an old hunt camp to take my son in law. He wasn't raised hunting, but he's fell in love with it. So I thought he might enjoy the experience of staying in a tent with all the wood fires burning and taters and onions cooked on the ol coleman.

 

[Tenntrapper]

Chuck Swan is a little more irritating to me to hunt. However, I have a soft spot for it. I really just wanted a place the resembles an old hunt camp to take my son in law. He wasn't raised hunting, but he's fell in love with it. So I thought he might enjoy the experience of staying in a tent with all the wood fires burning and taters and onions cooked on the ol coleman.

Sounds like fun. I'm sure he will enjoy it either way.
We have only hunted CS once before. Seen deer, but nothing taken. I hunt with my daughter, so we try to hunt places reasonably accessible...and not a long drag back out.. she's not much help..
Best of luck to you. And be careful...can get crazy there at times. ML probably not that bad...but rifle... different story.

 

[Ladys man]

I'll be on the bicolor side for the muzzy hunt.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

You have to look at the acreage vs the amount of deer and people out there.

 

[deerfever]

There is no telling how many people it took to kill those 70 deer. Catoosa is normally packed solid with people. There will be a few good bucks killed on the gun hunts but 2000 people get drawn. I hunted it when I was younger but just don't care to fight the crowds anymore. There are some good deer but I would have a plan A,B, C , D etc.......Personally I wish they would cut the numbers in half on the gun hunts to make for a better quality hunt . Good luck and try to avoid the crowds if possible, the camping should be fun and you never know up on the mountain what may show up!

 

[quackaholic]

You have to look at the acreage vs the amount of deer and people out there.

So compared to Prentice Cooper or LBL? People, acres, or just not liking the terrain? Because LBL has been open and they haven't put up those numbers. Nor has any other management areas. That is my point. I know a lot of people don't enjoy hunting inside those clear cuts. But as far as deer killed it seems to still be better early on than any of the others. The only one with as many killed and more bucks is Old Hickory. And that is with season open with regular seasons. So in essence, 20 more days of hunting.

 

[lol]

I had one of my most memorable hunts there probably 30 years ago. We hunted right behind the campground off otter creek. I can't recall the name anymore. There was never any pressure behind the campground but that day, on the way in I waited for my partner to get ahead of me before I entered and a couple hundred yards in a buck came running over a rolling hill, stopped, stomped angrily, then snorted and ran the other way. I could hear him run up and do the same to my partner. Then he ran back and did the same to me again but it was too thick for a shot but he turned again and I could hear him running when my buddy's shot went off. I walked over and my partner was on the ground shaking with the buck skidded to his feet. The deer had charged him, horns down while he was sitting at the base of a tree with an old hawken rifle, and hit the deer at about 10 feet. It was a decent 8 pt. The deers skull had been broken right down the middle and was completely loose on one side. When we skinned him, he had puncture wounds all over his body. I suspect brain damage from the skull fracture caused the violent behavior he displayed. Anyways, I never hunter there a lot, and its been a long time ago, but we always saw the most deer close to the roads and behind the campgrounds, where no one thought to hunt.

 

[quackaholic]

There is no telling how many people it took to kill those 70 deer. Catoosa is normally packed solid with people. There will be a few good bucks killed on the gun hunts but 2000 people get drawn. I hunted it when I was younger but just don't care to fight the crowds anymore. There are some good deer but I would have a plan A,B, C , D etc.......Personally I wish they would cut the numbers in half on the gun hunts to make for a better quality hunt . Good luck and try to avoid the crowds if possible, the camping should be fun and you never know up on the mountain what may show up!

So 480 acres per hunter is too small? I believe what most people are really upset about is deer density, not Hunter density. Granted you may night find optimal areas to suit you, but I don't really think that for a draw hunt it's overcrowded.

 

[DMD]

So 480 acres per hunter is too small? I believe what most people are really upset about is deer density, not Hunter density. Granted you may night find optimal areas to suit you, but I don't really think that for a draw hunt it's overcrowdedS

Some hunter frustration with Catoosa comes from the fact - many years ago, Catoosa held a considerable number of brute bucks. I suspect, but probably nobody knows, it was because they stocked Catoosa with deer from Wisconsin, which were a slightly different strain from deer that normally run around down here. As time went on, and that strain of bucks was washed out of the gene pool, coupled with the fact of hunters killing any buck that walked by - Catoosa really didn't produce the big bucks it once did. Around 1998, they implemented a "4 point on one side rule" - many folks thought that rule was going to produce Godzilla bucks all over Catoosa, but it never happened. I would bet there are less big, mature bucks killed there since the rule, than there were before the rule. NOW, I don't know that for sure, as I haven't looked at the numbers...but that's the perception. Couple that with seeing orange vests everywhere you walk AND orange vests walking by you when you are sitting in a tree - all hours of the morning and a lot of folks got disheartened with Catoosa. I stopped hunting up there when I figured out my chances of killing a mature buck were much greater on other properties I hunt then they are there. I still love it, and I want to get back to hunting it some - but, it's just doesn't really seem to be what it ought to be AS FAR AS holding big bucks. Part of that, I think, is the "four on one side" rule has people shooting the first 8 point they see - thereby culling the most promising 2 year old bucks on the place. But, I'm not an expert. Anyways, I think that's what causes much of the frustration with hunters concerning Catoosa. I got drawn on two hunts, but so far, I haven't had a chance to get up there and scout at all. I don't know if I'll make it up there or not.

 

[deerfever]

So 480 acres per hunter is too small? I believe what most people are really upset about is deer density, not Hunter density. Granted you may night find optimal areas to suit you, but I don't really think that for a draw hunt it's overcrowded.

You can't hunt every acre on the place, it's some rough country in spots and some of the clear cuts are not huntable. On paper yep it looks fine but just wait til you get to your spot early and 3 or 4 vehicles pull in and come right with you. Again not trying at all to discourage you at all some good deer in the place , find you a spot that you don't think others will be and you should be fine. Just my experience, people tend to congregate to the same areas at Catoosa . I wish you the best of luck and hope you guys both kill a dandy! Just saying you could cut the number of people and add another hunt and it would probably be better quality hunt for all involved . Again just an opinion.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

So 480 acres per hunter is too small? I believe what most people are really upset about is deer density, not Hunter density. Granted you may night find optimal areas to suit you, but I don't really think that for a draw hunt it's overcrowded.

I dont think your math is correct. It's more in the 40's acre per drawn hunter, recognizing not everyone shows up. You seem pretty set on it so just go for it and you may well have some luck!

 

[Pso94]

I've got the upcoming muzzleloader hunt starting the 24th. I haven't been in a good long while, and I keep hearing negative statements about it. Then I got curious, on the short 9 day bow hunt, the area killed 70 deer, and at least 2 bears. I don't know how many hogs, I didn't check. So I scrolled through all wma data and nowhere put up comparable numbers; of the which, most have been open all season. Some of those had done had some muzzleloader hunts. Now granted it wasn't a large number of bucks taken, but given the fact the bowhunt there is probably the worst part of the year to see mature bucks. I say mature because antler requirement puts them on the mature side. So why do so many say it sucks now?

just curious- was there a season for bears in catoosa or were they shot as a nuisance kill? I'll be out at catoosa for both MZ and rifle...have several spots picked out for what everyone is saying here about the crowds. apologies in advance if I walk past yall in the tree- I'll be on the ground and will be respectfully quiet, but with all these people, moving around is part of the deal whether we like it or not...would have to agree with the others about TWRA maybe thinking about hunter density or different timing to make for a better/safer experience for us all.

 

[Volbuck777]

So 480 acres per hunter is too small? I believe what most people are really upset about is deer density, not Hunter density. Granted you may night find optimal areas to suit you, but I don't really think that for a draw hunt it's overcrowded.

I can tell you've not been there. It's not 480 per acre unless you're a rabbit. Most of it is cutover that you can't get in and other parts ( bicolor) is super steep. I've hunted it for years and have killed bucks and have had awesome hunts there. I will tell you it took homework and boots on the ground. I go with a group every time I go I've killed 4 times the rest of my party between 6 guys on many hunts have killed 2 times and they were in spots that I put them. There is pockets that hold deer but they're few and far between. If you hunt catoosa any time at all you know it's not what it used to be. The early bow hunt in my opinion is by far your best opportunity to kill.

 

[quackaholic]

I can tell you've not been there. It's not 480 per acre unless you're a rabbit. Most of it is cutover that you can't get in and other parts ( bicolor) is super steep. I've hunted it for years and have killed bucks and have had awesome hunts there. I will tell you it took homework and boots on the ground. I go with a group every time I go I've killed 4 times the rest of my party between 6 guys on many hunts have killed 2 times and they were in spots that I put them. There is pockets that hold deer but they're few and far between. If you hunt catoosa any time at all you know it's not what it used to be. The early bow hunt in my opinion is by far your best opportunity to you

You must think I ain't been around lol. I have hunted it since 1985. I don't think the full picture of what I'm getting at is coming through. And yes my math was off earlier post one too few zeros as I fat thumbed the calculator. As far as what I am trying to get is success so far this season compared to other wma's. Plus the constant complaining i hear about clear cutting. It's been managed that way since I first hunted it in 85. So how far back are you going when you say used to be?

 

[quackaholic]

just curious- was there a season for bears in catoosa or were they shot as a nuisance kill? I'll be out at catoosa for both MZ and rifle...have several spots picked out for what everyone is saying here about the crowds. apologies in advance if I walk past yall in the tree- I'll be on the ground and will be respectfully quiet, but with all these people, moving around is part of the deal whether we like it or not...would have to agree with the others about TWRA maybe thinking about hunter density or different timing to make for a better/safer experience for us all.

Bears are allowed on open Archery hunt.

 

[killingtime 41]

I hunt it several times every year and have for quite a few years. You can get away from people but in my experience you have to pay attention to roads and access trails. There is a lot of access 4 wheeler trails all over the place.so some think they are all by themselves but walked 1.5 miles only to be 50 yards off an access trail without knowing it till a 4 wheeler comes by. I have had chances at some really fine bucks and somehow blew it every time. I've got to get the monkey off my back at catoosa. I've had 5 opportunities in last 4 years only for something to go wrong at the last minute. Weather has been awful these last few years out there. I'll be there god willing for both the rifle hunts. I like the hunt. I grew up camp hunting and that's what I like most about it. Hunting and camping with friends and family. Hope it isn't packed like it has been last 2 years.

 

[Volbuck777]

You must think I ain't been around lol. I have hunted it since 1985. I don't think the full picture of what I'm getting at is coming through. And yes my math was off earlier post one too few zeros as I fat thumbed the calculator. As far as what I am trying to get is success so far this season compared to other wma's. Plus the constant complaining i hear about clear cutting. It's been managed that way since I first hunted it in 85. So how far back are you going when you say used to be?

Hey bud not being argumentative, if it came off that way. I had a neighbor that hunted it in the 70s, 80s and 90s. He always talked how great the place was and he had the wall to prove it, im talking studs. My dad also hunted it back in the glory days and saw what he said was 2 of the largest deer he's ever saw. I've got family that has a farm that borders catoosa they've went from seeing 20 deer an evening to now seeing 2-3 deer a week.So, for that reason I started hunting it in early 00s. I've hunted it and seen some dandy's. Honestly 2 years ago was my best year for sightings but it took years to decipher that area out to give my best accessibility to the spot so that other hunters would push deer to me. I'm not sure without the orange army that I'd even saw deer. I do however get what your saying about deer to hunter ratio for wmas. Tennessee in general is lacking management on public ground. All public ground. 4 on one side or this 9 pt rule crap is not management. I saw a 70 inch 9 pt 2y/o this morning. I've got a 7 pt that may possibly make 120plus that I know is 4.5. If I was a manager which do I shoot. lol. I guess you see why we're a bit aggravated over Twra and the program they've set. I won't get into the rest of it, maybe others will speak up. By the way they may have been clear cuts then to, but they weren't clear cut happy like today. You said you haven't been there for a good long while. Be ready to have the wind took out your sails. It's a clearcut.

 

[quackaholic]

I hunt it several times every year and have for quite a few years. You can get away from people but in my experience you have to pay attention to roads and access trails. There is a lot of access 4 wheeler trails all over the place.so some think they are all by themselves but walked 1.5 miles only to be 50 yards off an access trail without knowing it till a 4 wheeler comes by. I have had chances at some really fine bucks and somehow blew it every time. I've got to get the monkey off my back at catoosa. I've had 5 opportunities in last 4 years only for something to go wrong at the last minute. Weather has been awful these last few years out there. I'll be there god willing for both the rifle hunts. I like the hunt. I grew up camp hunting and that's what I like most about it. Hunting and camping with friends and family. Hope it isn't packed like it has been last 2 years.

That's the only reason I really put in for it was for the son in law to experience what I did with my dad.

 

[MickThompson]

Hey bud not being argumentative, if it came off that way. I had a neighbor that hunted it in the 70s, 80s and 90s. He always talked how great the place was and he had the wall to prove it, im talking studs. My dad also hunted it back in the glory days and saw what he said was 2 of the largest deer he's ever saw. I've got family that has a farm that borders catoosa they've went from seeing 20 deer an evening to now seeing 2-3 deer a week.So, for that reason I started hunting it in early 00s. I've hunted it and seen some dandy's. Honestly 2 years ago was my best year for sightings but it took years to decipher that area out to give my best accessibility to the spot so that other hunters would push deer to me. I'm not sure without the orange army that I'd even saw deer. I do however get what your saying about deer to hunter ratio for wmas. Tennessee in general is lacking management on public ground. All public ground. 4 on one side or this 9 pt rule crap is not management. I saw a 70 inch 9 pt 2y/o this morning. I've got a 7 pt that may possibly make 120plus that I know is 4.5. If I was a manager which do I shoot. lol. I guess you see why we're a bit aggravated over Twra and the program they've set. I won't get into the rest of it, maybe others will speak up. By the way they may have been clear cuts then to, but they weren't clear cut happy like today. You said you haven't been there for a good long while. Be ready to have the wind took out your sails. It's a clearcut.

I think part of it is expectations- when good bucks can be found more and more across the state, it takes the shine off a place that used to be the only place to experience that.

What would you suggest for regulations to bring it back?

I hear many stories of Catoosa hunters ground checking multiple bucks- either to find a dead one that finally meets the minimum or only checking the biggest legal one. And lots of concern over road hunting. I'm not sure how to fix either one of those

 

[quackaholic]

Hey bud not being argumentative, if it came off that way. I had a neighbor that hunted it in the 70s, 80s and 90s. He always talked how great the place was and he had the wall to prove it, im talking studs. My dad also hunted it back in the glory days and saw what he said was 2 of the largest deer he's ever saw. I've got family that has a farm that borders catoosa they've went from seeing 20 deer an evening to now seeing 2-3 deer a week.So, for that reason I started hunting it in early 00s. I've hunted it and seen some dandy's. Honestly 2 years ago was my best year for sightings but it took years to decipher that area out to give my best accessibility to the spot so that other hunters would push deer to me. I'm not sure without the orange army that I'd even saw deer. I do however get what your saying about deer to hunter ratio for wmas. Tennessee in general is lacking management on public ground. All public ground. 4 on one side or this 9 pt rule crap is not management. I saw a 70 inch 9 pt 2y/o this morning. I've got a 7 pt that may possibly make 120plus that I know is 4.5. If I was a manager which do I shoot. lol. I guess you see why we're a bit aggravated over Twra and the program they've set. I won't get into the rest of it, maybe others will speak up. By the way they may have been clear cuts then to, but they weren't clear cut happy like today. You said you haven't been there for a good long while. Be ready to have the wind took out your sails. It's a clearcut.

Never thought you were arguing, so don't worry about that. I'm just a little curious as to different thoughts on the place. I never thought it was a great place. I know for a fact it's hard to hunt and you can never do the scouting that the area game managers do and pass that info to their families. And yes I had one tell me he did so. When he saw good ones he kept tabs on them and made sure they knew where to go. I am inclined to think that they should allow more open hunting and less draws. No rifle hunts period and no antler restrictions.

 

[East TN Bowhunter]

Never thought you were arguing, so don't worry about that. I'm just a little curious as to different thoughts on the place. I never thought it was a great place. I know for a fact it's hard to hunt and you can never do the scouting that the area game managers do and pass that info to their families. And yes I had one tell me he did so. When he saw good ones he kept tabs on them and made sure they knew where to go. I am inclined to think that they should allow more open hunting and less draws. No rifle hunts period and no antler restrictions.

That would be awesome, but way too many gun hunters that would be tore up about no gun hunts. I do like the 4 on one side bc in my opinion it does keep atleast most of the 1-2yr olds alive til they hit 3. I think it is better than no restrictions at all, but I am not sure what the better answer would be than 4 on one side or 15inch spread. It is a tough hunt with lots of doe groups and big steep draws everywhere you go. I think scouting 10x more than you hunt is probably the most important factor to success there. I also think the weather helped play a significant role in the number of does that were killed during the open bow hunt this year as well as limited acorn crop=more movement.

 

[quackaholic]

Just a thought on the area and hunters walking around you. That isn't the areas fault, nor the management of the area. That is a direct result of stupidity. Albeit sometimes it can be accidental when you walk in from one direction and walk up on someone who came from another. But if you park where another guy is parked, you have to know you have probably seen the same sign and have the same location in mind, so if you are not there first....move on down the road. Don't just walk in hoping to cut that person off. Most likely there is more than one with him already going to that spot.

 

[Billboy]

Last time I hunted there a nice 6pt walked right under my stand. About 2 minutes later I heard a shot a few hundred yards away, coming from the direction he was headed. On my way out at lunchtime, he was laying dead, no hunter to be found. I'm sure this happens all the time. Between this behavior and all my favorite spots being clearcut, I've never been back.

 

[Pso94]

Last time I hunted there a nice 6pt walked right under my stand. About 2 minutes later I heard a shot a few hundred yards away, coming from the direction he was headed. On my way out at lunchtime, he was laying dead, no hunter to be found. I'm sure this happens all the time. Between this behavior and all my favorite spots being clearcut, I've never been back.

So where does everyone go that all this talk of too many hunters in one place? Bicolor or genesis? I'd LOVE to avoid every Elmer and weekend warrior but sometimes you can't help it. Like most- if someone is parked there, we keep driving but at some point you have to pull in somewhere and just hope you avoid them or they avoid you. I'm not offended when someone walks up- miffed but I get it. Ain't their fault. Especially in bicolor. Call it what you want but It's completely attributed to too many tags for that timing.

 

[Volbuck777]

I think part of it is expectations- when good bucks can be found more and more across the state, it takes the shine off a place that used to be the only place to experience that.

What would you suggest for regulations to bring it back?

I hear many stories of Catoosa hunters ground checking multiple bucks- either to find a dead one that finally meets the minimum or only checking the biggest legal one. And lots of concern over road hunting. I'm not sure how to fix either one of those

I honestly don't feel like they should be a restriction on bucks. If people are ground checking bucks it's the hunters that are going to kill the first deer they see anyway. So why give them an opportunity to kill two. They shot the one that wasn't legal and left it laying because they're afraid of what may happen to them and now they get another chance and may do it again. If the 2nd is legal they've still taken 2 bucks and neither one is going to get any older. In this case let them kill the 4 pt and let them be happy with it and go on their way. You just saved a buck. The other type of hunter is the one with trigger restraint. He could have a nice 10 walk by but won't shoot because it's a 2.5 y/o. That 4 on one side doesn't concern him either way. He's a trophy hunter that doesn't lift his gun unless he knows it's going on the wall. So what good is restrictions in this case. Is it saving deer or leaving more for bears and coyotes to eat. I hate that they took away the bonus buck personally. It would make sense if it was a desirable hunt, it's not. A lot of guys that go there it's because tradition of camping with their buddies. I believe they need to cut back on the number of hunters per hunt also. At one time the area could take that number of hunters, but with all the acreage of cutover it confines hunters to certain areas. Now we're all aggravated because we're all hunting on top of each other. I've hunted public in other states. Ohio, Indiana, Georgia. They all have better opportunities at bigger deer with more hunters and no restrictions. More big deer getting killed more sightings on open hunts not draws. Plus alot of out of state hunters. It's desirable. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MickThompson]

I honestly don't feel like they should be a restriction on bucks. If people are ground checking bucks it's the hunters that are going to kill the first deer they see anyway. So why give them an opportunity to kill two. They shot the one that wasn't legal and left it laying because they're afraid of what may happen to them and now they get another chance and may do it again. If the 2nd is legal they've still taken 2 bucks and neither one is going to get any older. In this case let them kill the 4 pt and let them be happy with it and go on their way. You just saved a buck. The other type of hunter is the one with trigger restraint. He could have a nice 10 walk by but won't shoot because it's a 2.5 y/o. That 4 on one side doesn't concern him either way. He's a trophy hunter that doesn't lift his gun unless he knows it's going on the wall. So what good is restrictions in this case. Is it saving deer or leaving more for bears and coyotes to eat. I hate that they took away the bonus buck personally. It would make sense if it was a desirable hunt, it's not. A lot of guys that go there it's because tradition of camping with their buddies. I believe they need to cut back on the number of hunters per hunt also. At one time the area could take that number of hunters, but with all the acreage of cutover it confines hunters to certain areas. Now we're all aggravated because we're all hunting on top of each other. I've hunted public in other states. Ohio, Indiana, Georgia. They all have better opportunities at bigger deer with more hunters and no restrictions. More big deer getting killed more sightings on open hunts not draws. Plus alot of out of state hunters. It's desirable. Just my 2 cents.

That only works towards improving the hunting if 1) they check the first one they kill regardless of size, and 2) the hunter quota is significantly reduced. Poachers are gonna poach and cheaters are gonna cheat- bottom line.

Will Catoosa hunters tolerate needing 2-3 points to hunt? The ARs probably do more to allow higher hunter participation than to grow "monster bucks". Keep in mind that "15 inches or 4 points on a side" are designed to protect almost all yearlings, not to get deer to 4.5+ yo.

Ohio and Indiana have completely different soils, angriculture, and genetics- that's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Volbuck777]

That only works towards improving the hunting if 1) they check the first one they kill regardless of size, and 2) the hunter quota is significantly reduced. Poachers are gonna poach and cheaters are gonna cheat- bottom line.

Will Catoosa hunters tolerate needing 2-3 points to hunt? The ARs probably do more to allow higher hunter participation than to grow "monster bucks". Keep in mind that "15 inches or 4 points on a side" are designed to protect almost all yearlings, not to get deer to 4.5+ yo.

Ohio and Indiana have completely different soils, angriculture, and genetics- that's not even remotely an apples to apples comparison.

1)They kill, but they kill 1, not more.
2) not sure what you mean.
3) I'd tolerate 2-3 points if it were worth hunting
4)How about Georgia soils and genetics?

 

[MickThompson]

1)They kill, but they kill 1, not more.
2) not sure what you mean.
3) I'd tolerate 2-3 points if it were worth hunting
4)How about Georgia soils and genetics?

1) they might kill 1, but there are hunters already killing the first barely legal the see and hunting on.

2) antler restrictions that protect the biggest buck cohort allow many more hunters to participate in a hunt than if the hunt allows any buck to be harvested. It artificially depresses hunter success since the most abundant and susceptible cohort is off limits to harvest. The other way to limit harvest is to limit opportunity.

3) it doesn't matter what you or I would tolerate- what matters is what the hunters at large will, especially those that get drawn for 2 hunts per year right now. And the open hunt would almost certainly have to go away.

4) I don't know enough about where the particular hunts are held in GA, but the Cumberland Plateau has about as little row crop production as anywhere in Tennessee.