Killing Doe Late

[bhud84]

I am no biologist, I'm just normal hunter. I hear alot of people saying they are going to wait untill seasons almost over to take does for the freezer, which is fine but I have always wondered how killing a doe late affects the area. More than likely the doe is pregnant and if you kill her you are preventing one fawn possiably twins from being born.... I'm not against killing them late because I will probably take one here in the next week or so but I was just curious how it could wipe out a heard if I went in and killed 3 a day a few times.granted I'm only hunting a few hundred acres but I have a alot of deer in that small area..I don't blow the woods up every time I hunt and only kill 1-2 deer a year.. usually a doe early then try to kill a good buck... .. I guess I don't fully understand the killing ratio in order to keep a good selection and healthly herd....Thx for any input..

 

[Mike Belt]

It's been discussed on here over the years. Simply put, a dead doe is a dead deer. Dead deer don't produce fawns. Whether she was killed in September during archery season long before the rut takes place or late in December after she's been bred she's not going to fawn so what difference does it make when you take her out? The advantage to taking them early on is that sometimes there may be a difference in her size and that of any fawns she may have at present which may prevent you from mistakingly shooting a button buck.

 

[Stalkhunter]

[emoji897][emoji897][emoji481]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Riverday]

agree, just take a doe if you want, this has been talked about for years...what's the differences in killing a big mom doe first of bow season with a little baby deer with spots still on it...just kill you a deer if you want...

 

[bhud84]

How many doe per buck should be killed to keep ratio in check?

 

[Riverday]

How many doe per buck should be killed to keep ratio in check?

Just manage your area with the number of does that you feel needs to be taken...it's up to you...

 

[Mike Belt]

bhud84... How much money does it take to get by? Loaded question? Yep, like yours. It all depends on your situation. There is no across the board answer. An easy answer, not knowing your situation, would be to only kill 1 buck per 1 doe until you know just what you're dealing with.

 

[bhud84]

Thanks...

 

[bhud84]

agree, just take a doe if you want, this has been talked about for years...what's the differences in killing a big mom doe first of bow season with a little baby deer with spots still on it...just kill you a deer if you want...

Just so you know I would never kill a doe that had a small fawn with her. Usually don't even kill later in the year if the doe has a smaller fawn.

 

[Riverday]

agree, just take a doe if you want, this has been talked about for years...what's the differences in killing a big mom doe first of bow season with a little baby deer with spots still on it...just kill you a deer if you want...

Just so you know I would never kill a doe that had a small fawn with her. Usually don't even kill later in the year if the doe has a smaller fawn.

Agree, i was just using it as a example of being the same with a doe being pregnant in late season, no one was saying you would kill a doe with a fawn , you were the one that posted the questions , we were just giving you examples ....good luck with your hunting...

 

[rem270]

It's been discussed on here over the years. Simply put, a dead doe is a dead deer. Dead deer don't produce fawns. Whether she was killed in September during archery season long before the rut takes place or late in December after she's been bred she's not going to fawn so what difference does it make when you take her out? The advantage to taking them early on is that sometimes there may be a difference in her size and that of any fawns she may have at present which may prevent you from mistakingly shooting a button buck.

This. Nothing else to be said about it.

 

[TX300mag]

There's no reason (biological, practical) not to kill a doe with young ones. They'll get by fine. If one is a buck fawn he'll be dispersed soon, anyway.

Even if you did kill three does a day
1. You would get tired of it soon (like the second day)
2. Your deer will adjust to the added pressure quickly and they would be much harder to kill

Unless you conduct a reliable census (camera) you're just guessing at your ratio. Hunt and have fun, kill what you want and don't kill what you don't want to. :)

Since you mentioned health of the herd, ask yourself whether it's more healthy for a herd to be above or below carrying capacity.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bhud84]

There's no reason (biological, practical) not to kill a doe with young ones. They'll get by fine. If one is a buck fawn he'll be dispersed soon, anyway.

Even if you did kill three does a day
1. You would get tired of it soon (like the second day)
2. Your deer will adjust to the added pressure quickly and they would be much harder to kill

Unless you conduct a reliable census (camera) you're just guessing at your ratio. Hunt and have fun, kill what you want and don't kill what you don't want to. :)

Since you mentioned health of the herd, ask yourself whether it's more healthy for a herd to be above or below carrying capacity.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome points. Thanks

 

[pass-thru]

Biologically it is better to kill them early if possible, because that is up to 3-4 months less food they consume before dying. And bucks don't waste energy breeding them before they are killed.

But either does need to be killed or they don't. And if some still need to be killed late season then do it.

 

[Deer Assassin]

ditto mike belt and tx300 mag

 

[TheLBLman]

How many doe per buck should be killed to keep ratio in check?

In the absence of other data, a really "good" strategy is to strive for a balanced-sex harvest.
It is somewhat self-regulating, at least in terms of buck:doe ratio, which would naturally be about 1:1 in a non-hunted environment.

On many areas over the past many years in TN (especially areas of less than 1,000 acres), a higher doe than buck harvest has been necessary to obtain/maintain a balanced sex ratio, simply because hunters in surrounding areas were killing more bucks than does. Keep in mind decades of mainly "buck only" hunting has somewhat conditioned generations of hunters NOT to shoot a doe.

Keep in mind deer, even females, typically range over a much larger area than most hunters seem to think, and deer do not recognize property lines.

Since you mentioned health of the herd, ask yourself whether it's more healthy for a herd to be above or below carrying capacity?

Excellent question! :)
My personal preference is below carrying capacity, which equals a healthier deer herd than above capacity.
Keep in mind it is often today becoming more an issue of "social" capacity than a food-based carrying capacity.

There can be a relatively unlimited food supply for deer in areas of big ag surrounded by subdivisions.
But neither the farmers nor the homeowners want too many deer eating them out of house and home, nor "too much" of a road hazard.

Into the future, we hunters may be having less role in deer management if we don't "harvest" in a more balanced manner, as in areas of growing deer populations, non-hunters demand "something" be done about too many deer, and this is increasingly being handled by contracted government-employed sharpshooters.

The ongoing deer herd is mainly controlled by the doe harvest.

 

[slagtown_dfa]

Dead doe is a dead doe regardless of when you shoot her. So if you shoot one in October that's one less to get bred. Same thing as shooting one already bred.

 

[Bone Collector]

Dead doe is a dead doe regardless of when you shoot her. So if you shoot one in October that's one less to get bred. Same thing as shooting one already bred.

This^^

 

[TheLBLman]

Dead doe is a dead doe regardless of when you shoot her. So if you shoot one in October that's one less to get bred. Same thing as shooting one already bred.

This^^

Generally agree, far as buck:doe ratio concerned,
but still better (from a herd health perspective) to take the females earlier rather than later.

Others have already pointed this out, but,

1) By targeting adult females earlier, fewer fawns get mistaken for adults, thus fewer button bucks get accidently killed ---- THIS also helps the ongoing buck:doe ratio. Quite simply, best way to never accidentally kill a button buck is to never kill a fawn, and it's typically easy to distinguish fawns from adults until early November.

Many of us prefer to not take does with fawns, but most does SHOULD have fawns (whether we see them or not). So long as the spots are gone, orphaned fawn survival should be high, and likely even higher for an orphaned button buck than for a non-orphaned button. I see very few spotted fawns after early October.

2) By targeting adult females earlier, more of the available food resources go to the fawns (both sexes) along with relatively more to the living/surviving male segment. This translates into healthier deer, the most meaningful aspect to many hunters being larger antlers grown in the coming year, as well as higher button buck survival (more bucks).

Again, a healthier deer herd grows bucks with larger antlers, and the earlier in the fall adult doe are killed, the more forage available to the others.

Of course, many of us still prefer to kill our doe in late season simply because we'd rather deal with a deer during colder rather than warmer weather. But when we really need to kill a lot, best to get started sooner rather than later. :)

 

[PalsPal]

What about those still nursing little ones if you take her out early?

 

[Deer Assassin]

What about those still nursing little ones if you take her out early?

they will survive just fine

 

[TheLBLman]

What about those still nursing little ones if you take her out early?

they will survive just fine

Exactly.
Once their spots are gone, they're weaned, but will still nurse if the mother allows.
Interestingly, it appears button bucks are more likely to survive to 2 1/2 yrs of age if they're orphaned.

 

[catman529]

There's no reason (biological, practical) not to kill a doe with young ones. They'll get by fine. If one is a buck fawn he'll be dispersed soon, anyway.

Even if you did kill three does a day
1. You would get tired of it soon (like the second day)
2. Your deer will adjust to the added pressure quickly and they would be much harder to kill

Unless you conduct a reliable census (camera) you're just guessing at your ratio. Hunt and have fun, kill what you want and don't kill what you don't want to. :)

Since you mentioned health of the herd, ask yourself whether it's more healthy for a herd to be above or below carrying capacity.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very well said.

Last two does I killed appeared to be carrying twins. It is kind of sad but makes no difference to the doe or the herd. It's just another doe taken out of the population...lots more deer still running through the woods carrying fawns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk