Issues with primers

[dirtyhands]

Hi guys I need some guidance. I went to the range yesterday to shoot my first ever handloads. It all went great I didn't loose and fingers or eyes nor did any of the spent cases look like I had done something wrong. My only issue was that out of the 40 rounds I shot I had probably 10 rounds that didn't fire on the first hammer strike. The last 5 rounds all took second strike to light. I'm using cci large rifle primers in new starline brass loading 45-70. I'm using a lee turret press to press in the primers. I've read conflicting things on the Internet about how much pressure to apply when seating primers. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I still had a great day the pic was my best group at 50 yards with a skinner peep sight.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I would suspect your screen name 1st. Seriously, oil on your hands is what I mean. Primers can't tolerate any oil. While different amounts of force used to seat primers could cause some measurable difference in accuracy I've never had a problem with that being the cause for a primer to not go off at all. Unless you are really souring down on them and crushing the pellet I just doubt that is the problem. It also could be some peculiar problem such as I recently had with my Marlin 35 Remington where failures to fire were caused by several factors other than the primer. In my case it was due to an aftermarket hammer spring(weaker than factory), re-sizing die adjustment and peculiar cast bullet design which COULD have contributed due to bullet being jammed into rifling which made lever hard to close. Prior to that event I had loaded since the mid 1970's with only one centerfire cartridge failing to fire. Most of mine have been primed on the reloading press too which is considered the most crude priming tool.

 

[DaveB]

Questions for you:
What rifle you shooting? Bolt? Single break action? Lever? Make? old new used ?

Any other factory rounds been fired with primer issues? Want to try and eliminate the You in the equation

Did the firing pin contact the primer and if so, what kind of indentation did it make? Did you compare a fail to fire with one that did fire?

You understand, the symptoms look like dirt/grit/grime is at fault since the problem got worse as you fired more rounds.

You need to clean the firing pin assembly. Spend some time on it. Can you soak the entire mechanism in solvent?

 

[jlanecr500]

CC I primers are the hardest. I use Winchester primers in most all of my guns including my 45/70's. Federal gold metal match are good if you can find them.

 

[dirtyhands]

OK guys this is a new as of last year chiappa ridge runner takedown. It's a winchester 1886 lever action rifle. I was unaware that primers were so finicky about dirty hands which I'm sure I had at the time. I did not inspect the primers I just recocked the hammer and squeezed the trigger. All the rounds fired after the second hit. I haven't had any failures with the 100 or so factory rounds I've fired. I loaded up some more yesterday and tried to focus on seating the primers till I felt resistance then stopped. I think that covers all the questions. Thanks so far for the help

 

[DaveB]

If the primers were adulterated by dirty hands, they wouldn't fire at all.

Probably you had them seated a bit too deep. Lay a straight edge across the base of the cartridge. Primer should almost touch the straight edge.

I looked at a picture of the rifle, it looks very cool.

 

[KPH]

Never had a problem with CCI's. I am betting weak strikes, from the firing pin, but could be wrong. I would think it would be hard to set them too deep assuming the brass is right.

 

[dirtyhands]

Thanks DaveB the rifle is super sweet. I'll load up some rounds and try not to push the primers in too deep. If my seating debt is the problem is there a better way of doing it? Is this why people use hand priming tools?

 

[DaveB]

Nope, hand priming, bench priming, press priming, the key is the brass and that doesn't sound right. From your description the firing pin is not striking the brass hard enough on the first attempt. Call the factory/distributor and see what they say. Its a beautiful lever gun.

 

[AllOutdoors]

If your primers aren't seated deep enough, the first strike might be seating them to allow the second strike to fire them. Just a thought.

 

[DaveB]

^^^this^^^ a very good point

 

[dirtyhands]

Well guys thanks alot for all the advice. I'm going to load up some more rounds and experiment with the pressure I put on the primers. Hopefully some of them just didn't get seated all the way like AllOutdoors suggested.

 

[Snowwolfe]

I wouldn't worry about dirty hands. Eventually oil will disable a primer but it takes a lot. The most important issue is how did your rifle shoot factory rounds? If there were no misfires then the answer is truly with your reloads.
My gut tells me you might not be seating the primers deep enough. Run your finger tip over the base of the brass, can you feel the primer sticking up? If so, then seat them deeper next time. Another possibility is a shallow primer pocket. This is also easy to fix with the right tool but if this is the case Starline should replace the brass. If you never used factory ammo and the primers are seated deep enough then my next suggestion would be a thorough cleaning of the bolt and firing pin area.
If you are close to Cookeville or Crossville give me a shout and we can load up some rounds at my place and see if they work as I own a 45-70 as well.
Rule out one variable at a time and good luck. Hopefully it is something simple so your rifle doesn't require a trip back to the manufacture.

 

[dirtyhands]

Appreciate the offer snowwolfe. I don't think im close to Cookeville I'm gonna make up some more rounds hopefully I can get this figured out. Thanks for all the help fellas

 

[BobTail]

It's not a dirt / oil / etc problem from handling. Primers will go off after being soaked in WD40.

Try this (I did). Take a few primers and lay them out upside-down on your workbench. Give them a good spray with WD-40. Go back the next day and dry them off with a paper towel. Lay them on a paper towel and allow them to drain overnight. The next day press them into a case and try to fire them. When I did this not a single round failed to fire on the first strike. Now .... do you think that handling them will cause a problem? There's no way your hands could be oily enough to damage primers.

I'd suspect the firing pin spring, or possibly a headspace issue. It's impossible to seat a primer too deeply with that particular press, so that isn't the issue.

 

[Deer Assassin]

i have loaded and shot thousands and thousands of rounds with cci primers

only had 1 not fire




id suggest checking the firing pin

 

[dirtyhands]

Well I finally got around to shooting some more of my hand loads. It started off well then I started having issues again. Out of about fortt rounds I'd say I had five that failed to fire on the first drop of the hammer. I actually had one that I tried at least four times and it never lit off. I made sure I didn't touch any of the primers this time and I paid close attention when I was seating them to make sure they were deep enough. I picked up some winchester primers the other day. I'll try those and see if they work if not I guess I'll start looking into the gun.

 

[7mminatree]

Since, nobody mentioned it, I would check your firing pin protrusion. I had a Chiappa Armi 45-70 sharps that had a burr in the firing pin hole. Not saying that's it but something you can check.

 

[dirtyhands]

Since, nobody mentioned it, I would check your firing pin protrusion. I had a Chiappa Armi 45-70 sharps that had a burr in the firing pin hole. Not saying that's it but something you can check.

Thanks I'll take a look when I get home!

 

[BobTail]

Quit asking questions and get the rifle to a COMPETENT gunsmith. You have a problem with headspace or the firing pin.

Let us know what they find out.