Is it ever too rocky for Loblolly Pine?

[Jarred525]

Here are some pics of an area we are logging where I am thinking of going with loblolly pine. South facing slope. Portions of this area are very rocky. Am I wasting my money planting loblolly pine in these rocky areas?

 

[jmb4wd]

As long as you dont ask me to help dig holes, I say go for it!

 

[BSK]

Pines will grow in fairly rocky soil. However, getting a dibble-bar into the ground is going to be your biggest problem!

 

[Jarred525]

:) I have found a guy who will come in and plant pine for $75/acre. Have a good reference on him that he does good work, and he is on the TN Forestry state list of planters. That includes the price of trees. My concern is that in some of these areas it could be waste because of the rock. Other areas will be fine. I guess not sure if I want to take the risk or not in this area. For the money maybe it is not too big a risk.

BSK, when did you tell me was the proper time for a ARSENAL or similar application to pine? I thought you told me 1 year after planting? I think I might could actually get a 4 wheeler sprayer in there immediately before planting if that would be worthwhile. He is cutting the stumps so low and I could see what I was doing before it grows up.

 

[BSK]

At least one year after planting (2 years is good too), and spray in late summer or early fall.

 

[Jarred525]

I assume doing an application immediately at planting is not going to prevent having to do another application one or 2 years down the road?

 

[Football Hunter]

nice looking rub

 

[farmin68]

Looks like a good place to allow regenerative growth into browse and cover or a sanctuary if you decide not to plant.

 

[Jarred525]

Looks like a good place to allow regenerative growth into browse and cover or a sanctuary if you decide not to plant.

That is definitely Option B. I am going to see what it looks like when they finish the cut (see how many trees are actually there that I marked not to cut) and also poke around with a dibble bar and see what the dirt looks like.

 

[BSK]

Loblolly will grow in very difficult conditions. That's why I plant it where ever conditions look "poor" for quality hardwood regeneration. It's not a coincidence that the poorest sites often display only Mountain Chestnut Oaks and Sourwoods, while the best sites are dominated by quality hardwoods such as White and Red oak.

If timber is cut from a poor site, I prefer to plant it in Loblolly because pines (in a hardwood monoculture) are such an attractive habitat for deer.

 

[Jarred525]

Loblolly will grow in very difficult conditions. That's why I plant it where ever conditions look "poor" for quality hardwood regeneration. It's not a coincidence that the poorest sites often display only Mountain Chestnut Oaks and Sourwoods, while the best sites are dominated by quality hardwoods such as White and Red oak.

If timber is cut from a poor site, I prefer to plant it in Loblolly because pines (in a hardwood monoculture) are such an attractive habitat for deer.

Trees are growing in this area so I know it is doable for a tree to grow there :) Thanks for the input.

 

[Jarred525]

nice looking rub

Believe that was man made :)

 

[Jarred525]

What are your thoughts on planting density? From my research, I am leaning toward 14 foot rows with 9 foot spacing. But would leave to hear feedback.

 

[BSK]

Loblolly will grow in very difficult conditions. That's why I plant it where ever conditions look "poor" for quality hardwood regeneration. It's not a coincidence that the poorest sites often display only Mountain Chestnut Oaks and Sourwoods, while the best sites are dominated by quality hardwoods such as White and Red oak.

If timber is cut from a poor site, I prefer to plant it in Loblolly because pines (in a hardwood monoculture) are such an attractive habitat for deer.

Trees are growing in this area so I know it is doable for a tree to grow there :) Thanks for the input.

The question is, what species of trees are growing there? Often poor sites only grow low-quality (timber value) trees. Hence they are perfect for pine plantations.

 

[BSK]

What are your thoughts on planting density? From my research, I am leaning toward 14 foot rows with 9 foot spacing. But would leave to hear feedback.

What is your goal? Great security cover is usually produced by tight plantings that are later thinned. If you don't mind some mixed hardwood in the pine stand, then wider spacing will reduce the need to thin at a future date.

 

[Jarred525]

Loblolly will grow in very difficult conditions. That's why I plant it where ever conditions look "poor" for quality hardwood regeneration. It's not a coincidence that the poorest sites often display only Mountain Chestnut Oaks and Sourwoods, while the best sites are dominated by quality hardwoods such as White and Red oak.

If timber is cut from a poor site, I prefer to plant it in Loblolly because pines (in a hardwood monoculture) are such an attractive habitat for deer.

Trees are growing in this area so I know it is doable for a tree to grow there :) Thanks for the input.

The question is, what species of trees are growing there? Often poor sites only grow low-quality (timber value) trees. Hence they are perfect for pine plantations.

Mainly pulp, hickory, cedar, with a few other varieties mixed in. I am going to give it a go and see what happens

 

[Jarred525]

What are your thoughts on planting density? From my research, I am leaning toward 14 foot rows with 9 foot spacing. But would leave to hear feedback.

What is your goal? Great security cover is usually produced by tight plantings that are later thinned. If you don't mind some mixed hardwood in the pine stand, then wider spacing will reduce the need to thin at a future date.

Good thoughts that I will have to ponder on. I was thinking the wider spacing may encourage more native browse but I will have to manage the hardwood issue.

 

[BSK]

What are your thoughts on planting density? From my research, I am leaning toward 14 foot rows with 9 foot spacing. But would leave to hear feedback.

What is your goal? Great security cover is usually produced by tight plantings that are later thinned. If you don't mind some mixed hardwood in the pine stand, then wider spacing will reduce the need to thin at a future date.

Good thoughts that I will have to ponder on. I was thinking the wider spacing may encourage more native browse but I will have to manage the hardwood issue.

The wider spacing WILL allow more natural browse species for a longer period of time, but it will ALSO allow more hardwood sapling competition. Although Arsenal spraying after pine seedling establishment can knock that hardwood competition way back, as well as prelong the natural food source production.

 

[Jarred525]

What are your thoughts on planting density? From my research, I am leaning toward 14 foot rows with 9 foot spacing. But would leave to hear feedback.

What is your goal? Great security cover is usually produced by tight plantings that are later thinned. If you don't mind some mixed hardwood in the pine stand, then wider spacing will reduce the need to thin at a future date.

Good thoughts that I will have to ponder on. I was thinking the wider spacing may encourage more native browse but I will have to manage the hardwood issue.

The wider spacing WILL allow more natural browse species for a longer period of time, but it will ALSO allow more hardwood sapling competition. Although Arsenal spraying after pine seedling establishment can knock that hardwood competition way back, as well as prelong the natural food source production.

How often can I expect to have to do the Arsenal spraying? Once every 2 years until the pines are established to shade out competition?

 

[BSK]

The pines should jump ahead of the hardwood competition (and shade it out) after one Arsenal application two years after planting. Once pines establish a good root system, they explode in growth.

 

[Jarred525]

Thanks, appreciate the help.