IR effects on whitetails

[CopperHead77]

Was wondering for those who run IR cams,roughly what would you say the % is of deer that react negatively to the glow,I've heard alot of people saying that it scares them off alot of times,I've only been running them for about as long as they've been out and have seen prob 2 or 3 cases where a deer was visibly bothered by it, out of probably hundreds of cases where they weren't. Multiple times with mature bucks they will come back time after time and seem not to care one bit.(and this is in video mode).

 

[McNasty]

I've had a deer or two in four years of using IR that were genuinely afraid of the camera. Most seem to get used to it very quickly. Putting the camera out of the line of sight and at an angle where the deer is not facing it head on helps a lot. Alot of mature bucks are suspicious of anything out of the ordinary though, so those deer are nearly always less apt to hang around in front of a camera.

 

[McNasty]

I'd say 20% oblivious, 10% really suspicious, and the rest quickly adjust to it in a noticeable place.

 

[BHC]

Copperheard77, I would say near 0% negative effects.. If you have a camera set on every 5 min You may get a pic w/ ears at you eyes glowing, and it will appear that the deer is nervous about the camera.. then by the times five minutes is up theyve really move or are gone.. would appear they spooked! Take the same IR cam and put it on video or every 15-30 sec. and youll get there rump nearly touching the screen, face at the screen face at the ground, and you may catchem look the cam over but few spook in my experience. All my cams are cuddeback, I dunno if that makes any difference or not.. Video mode will spook one every now in then... Id say video spook probly one in every one hundered videos, and by spook I mean look at the cam give it the head bob manuever, then get enough and walk or trot away, never had one bolt though...All my cams are IR..
Ive ran trail cams nearly yr around for the last two yrs.. Have probly got roughly 20,000 pics over last couple yrs..

 

[BHC]

Copperhead77 what county do you hunt, as there is a copperhead hunting club that borders us..

 

[DWM]

When I only had IR cameras I didn't think the deer were spooked much at all from the red flash. I would get a couple pictures of the same but and sometime they would look at right at the camera but never ran. Well I finally got me a Reconyx black flash and was truly shocked at how many more pictures I would get of the same buck. While a deer with the IR might stay around a short time to get a few pictures I quickly learned to lower the number of picture the Reconyx took. I am literally getting hundreds of pictures in one night of the same deer instead of 2 or 3. The deer are now staying in front of the camera for over an hour on some cases.

So I decide to put the red IR back at that location and all of a sudden the deer stopped staying around more than a few seconds. While I never saw much evidence of them being spooked something is definitely different in the way the deer react to each cameras.

You will never really know for sure but just judging the deer reaction in the picture. Put a black flash up in place of an IR in the same location some time and then you will see how much longer they stay around.

The reaction is not as bad for the doe and young bucks but I still say that it affects 70% of the deer to a noticeable degree. I actually believe the white flash gets less avoidance than a red IR. Now if you really want to see what a deer looks like freaked out from a camera just find one of them old film cameras. :D

 

[BHC]

Here are some mature bucks in front of IR cams.. These are the first two series of pics I came to of mature bucks that stayed for mutliple shots, but in Aug this is an every night occurence. Ill literally put a cam up on a mineral lick w/ corn around it for 2 weeks and come back and have 2000 pics, and only 10 different deer toatal on that cam.. This album is one series from this past season and one from 2010.. IR cams may not be as good as black flash, I dont know, but in my experience they dont spook deer, the main concern is leaving scent on or around the cam.. I do think white flash spooks them though... Different brands may make a difference.. I dunno...
http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x43 ... 0evidence/

 

[cecil30-30]

This is my experience with IR cams.I ran white flash cams up until late july this summer.Then I got 2 IR cams and replaced my white flash units.I was getting up to 400 pics in a 3 week period,and several good bucks,and when i switched to the IR cams,my pic numbers went way way down,and all the buck vanished.Never got another pic of a older buck after I started useing IR cams. And of the deer I did get pics of at night,they was all looking right at the camera.I sold my IR cams,and bought new white flash cams.But of course,everyone's experience may differ.

 

[CopperHead77]

Copperhead77 what county do you hunt, as there is a copperhead hunting club that borders us..

Hickman co.

 

[CopperHead77]

Here are some mature bucks in front of IR cams.. These are the first two series of pics I came to of mature bucks that stayed for mutliple shots, but in Aug this is an every night occurence. Ill literally put a cam up on a mineral lick w/ corn around it for 2 weeks and come back and have 2000 pics, and only 10 different deer toatal on that cam.. This album is one series from this past season and one from 2010.. IR cams may not be as good as black flash, I dont know, but in my experience they dont spook deer, the main concern is leaving scent on or around the cam.. I do think white flash spooks them though... Different brands may make a difference.. I dunno...
http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x43 ... 0evidence/

Nice bucks!

 

[CopperHead77]

Most of the IR video I get is over scrapes,these bucks seem so focused on working the scrape that they don't even look at the camera,and if they do it's just for a sec. I guess every deer is different though,I'm just glad these deer around here seem IR tolerant for the most part.

 

[DWM]

I have never heard anybody that owned both ir and black flash say their ir didn't get camera avoidance. Does anybody else on here own both?

To back up my experiences here is some quote BSK made on another camera forum. There was many more responses that backed this up but I'm using his because everyone on here knows him.

1) Some deer could care less about red-glow or white-flash illumination, but the majority of deer do care.

2) Getting repeat photos of some deer with red-glow or white-flash tells you little. You are only seeing the "positive" responses. You are not seeing the "negative" responses (those deer avoiding the camera). Without knowing the number of both, you can't say exactly what the avoidance rate is. In essence, getting repeat photos of one or more individual deer doesn't mean some deer aren't avoiding the camera.

3) Having an attractant in front of the camera helps draw even camera-shy deer in front of the camera. More camera avoidance will be seen at unbaited locations. With all cameras set to the exact same delay time and burst-mode image counts, on average I get 10 times more photos at unbaited locations (trails set-ups) with black-flash than with white-flash or red-glow cameras, while black-flash produces "only" 5 times more pictures than white/red illumination at baited sites. Obviously, the bait influences camera-shy deer to put up with the flash. But the black-flash stil produces many more trigger events of the same deer even at baited sites hence deer are avoiding visible flash cameras even over bait.

4) Just because an individual deer only gets photographed once at a given location and then not again doesn't mean the camera flash "scared the deer off the property." I've had the opportunity to watch deer interact with trail-cameras many, many times, and they simply learn to walk around the trigger area of the camera. So just because they aren't being photographed doesn't mean they have left the area or changed their patterns. They just change their pattern right at the camera.

If my only choices were white-flash or red-glow, I would stick with white-flash because of the better image quality at night and lack of night-time motion blur. I've run many very successful photo-censuses with white-flash cameras, although I had to move camera locations frequently and/or use a lot of cameras. But it certainly can be done with visible flash cameras.

However, once you throw the black-flash option into the mix, every other consideration goes out the window. For those who use cameras a lot at non-baited set-ups, black-flash makes such a difference that I can't see using anything else. Of all the people I've talked to who have tried black-flash (and that's a bunch, considering the business associates I have), only one has said they didn't think it made much of a difference. Everyone else, almost to a person, has said something to the effect of "Holy crap, what a difference!"

All the time I hear, "I got lots of pictures of mature bucks with my white-flash/red-glow cameras, so camera flash doesn't scare deer." My response is always the same, "How do you know? How many MORE pictures would you have gotten with black-flash?" Until someone tries it, they won't know. But from the vast majority that I know who have tried black-flash, they were shocked by what they had been missing using visible flash. But again, this primarily deals with those using cameras at non-baited locations. Although personally, I get many more pictures with black-flash at baited locations as well. Not only more repeat visits by the same deer, but individual deer stay around the bait much longer with each visit, allowing more trigger events per visit (and more photos to review of an individual deer).

 

[Ahuntin1]

I out one up that had video. The doe really do not like it. You could watch their negative reaction. I had a mature buck not think anything about it.

 

[Jarred525]

I am sold on blackflash, just hoping the cameras will become more reasonable in price soon.

 

[Hollar Hunter]

I am sold on blackflash, just hoping the cameras will become more reasonable in price soon.

x2

 

[LanceS4803]

Same here, waiting for price drop. Will use black flash on trails and IR flash over bait during pre-season.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I don have any negative reaction to white flash but a good bit of my deer are scared to death of red glow.

 

[ghosthunter]

I don have any negative reaction to white flash but a good bit of my deer are scared to death of red glow.

I've seen the same

 

[Andy S.]

I have never heard anybody that owned both ir and black flash say their ir didn't get camera avoidance. Does anybody else on here own both?

Yes, I do, along with several home brew white flash cams. I have seen numerous examples of camera avoidance from my IR pics/vids, just I have with my white flash cams. I have a few pics out of many thousands of black flash pics where the buck is bolting away from the scrape, but this is after I already had captured 10-15 good pics of the buck. I almost wonder if the buck heard the camera or something.

 

[BSK]

I've read hundreds of users on different talk forums swear up and down that their deer aren't affected by camera flash, whether that is white-flash or red-glow. Yet every single one of those people--once they tried black-flash--changed their tune dramatically about what had been happening. Not one person I know who has tried black-flash has said it doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference, and usually a huge difference, especially at non-baited camera locations.


Here's some hard data:

With all cameras (white-flash, red-glow, and black-flash) on the same property set to the same delay settings and same number of burst mode pictures per trigger, and all cameras left in the same unbaited location (usually scrapes, but also food plots) for at least 3 weeks:

By the second week of deployment, white-flash and red-glow cameras were getting only 40% of the pictures they were getting the first week. By the third week in the same location, white-flash and red-glow cameras were only getting 23% of the pictures they were the first week.

On the other hand, black-flash camera pictures actually increased 219% in the second week of deployment in the same location, and were 138% higher the third week than the first week. i suspect the picture counts increased in the 2nd week because it took a week for deer to get accustomed to the camera box itself. Deer notice everything, and they definitely notice and appear shy of cameras strapped to trees even in daylight. By the second week, deer had learned the camera boxes were not a threat and began ignoring them, increasing their use of the location.

And although camera avoidance appears much less at baited sites (deer will put up with a lot to get access to whatever is used to draw them to the camera at a baited site), deer definitely stayed at the baited sites for much briefer periods when monitored by visible flash cameras (white-flash or red-glow). The average "duration of stay" for an individual deer at a bait site monitored by visible flash cameras was 2.57 camera triggers (using a 5 minute camera delay, that calculates to around 7 minutes and 51 seconds). The average duration of stay for an individual deer at a baited site monitored by black-flash cameras was 18.36 triggers (with a 5 minute camera delay, 86 minutes and 48 seconds).

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Good info Bryan. When I first got a black flash camera 2 years ago, I never would have imagined I would be getting pics of a mature buck working one small point off a main ridge for literally every hour of the entire night. There wasnt a 15 minute segment that he didnt trigger the camera in an 8 hour period. It was due to me only being accustomed to white flash and red glow cameras and not truly knowing deer in their natural state, due to them being spooked.

 

[CopperHead77]

What brand of black flash cams are ya'll using?

 

[gil1]

I've read hundreds of users on different talk forums swear up and down that their deer aren't affected by camera flash, whether that is white-flash or red-glow. Yet every single one of those people--once they tried black-flash--changed their tune dramatically about what had been happening. Not one person I know who has tried black-flash has said it doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference, and usually a huge difference, especially at non-baited camera locations.


Here's some hard data:

With all cameras (white-flash, red-glow, and black-flash) on the same property set to the same delay settings and same number of burst mode pictures per trigger, and all cameras left in the same unbaited location (usually scrapes, but also food plots) for at least 3 weeks:

By the second week of deployment, white-flash and red-glow cameras were getting only 40% of the pictures they were getting the first week. By the third week in the same location, white-flash and red-glow cameras were only getting 23% of the pictures they were the first week.

On the other hand, black-flash camera pictures actually increased 219% in the second week of deployment in the same location, and were 138% higher the third week than the first week. i suspect the picture counts increased in the 2nd week because it took a week for deer to get accustomed to the camera box itself. Deer notice everything, and they definitely notice and appear shy of cameras strapped to trees even in daylight. By the second week, deer had learned the camera boxes were not a threat and began ignoring them, increasing their use of the location.

And although camera avoidance appears much less at baited sites (deer will put up with a lot to get access to whatever is used to draw them to the camera at a baited site), deer definitely stayed at the baited sites for much briefer periods when monitored by visible flash cameras (white-flash or red-glow). The average "duration of stay" for an individual deer at a bait site monitored by visible flash cameras was 2.57 camera triggers (using a 5 minute camera delay, that calculates to around 7 minutes and 51 seconds). The average duration of stay for an individual deer at a baited site monitored by black-flash cameras was 18.36 triggers (with a 5 minute camera delay, 86 minutes and 48 seconds).

Very interesting, Bryan. Is that your data? Where did that come from?

 

[gil1]

I have to jump in here again with the obvious. I'm sure there are good reasons to opt for a red glow or black flash camera. The problem is that that photographs are awful. No, they suck horribly to the point that I wouldn't use them even if they were free.

Unless they find a way to vastly improve quality, I will never stray from the white flash. If quality doesn't matter, go the other way.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

What brand of black flash cams are ya'll using?

Reconyx.

I got a Primos Black-out for Christmas, but havent used it yet. When doing my "testing", I could see all 60 LED's which is a big let down. With the Reconyx, it is 100% invisible. It will be interesting to see the differences in whether they avoid being in front of the camera or not, come late summer

 

[CopperHead77]

I have to jump in here again with the obvious. I'm sure there are good reasons to opt for a red glow or black flash camera. The problem is that that photographs are awful. No, they suck horribly to the point that I wouldn't use them even if they were free.

Unless they find a way to vastly improve quality, I will never stray from the white flash. If quality doesn't matter, go the other way.

I know with my covert I rarely use the photo mode for that very reason.

 

[CopperHead77]

What brand of black flash cams are ya'll using?

Reconyx.

I got a Primos Black-out for Christmas, but havent used it yet. When doing my "testing", I could see all 60 LED's which is a big let down. With the Reconyx, it is 100% invisible. It will be interesting to see the differences in whether they avoid being in front of the camera or not, come late summer

Does the recon have a video mode?

 

[JCDEERMAN]

What brand of black flash cams are ya'll using?

Reconyx.

I got a Primos Black-out for Christmas, but havent used it yet. When doing my "testing", I could see all 60 LED's which is a big let down. With the Reconyx, it is 100% invisible. It will be interesting to see the differences in whether they avoid being in front of the camera or not, come late summer

Does the recon have a video mode?

No it does not. But it does have 1/5 second trigger speed

 

[BSK]

I've read hundreds of users on different talk forums swear up and down that their deer aren't affected by camera flash, whether that is white-flash or red-glow. Yet every single one of those people--once they tried black-flash--changed their tune dramatically about what had been happening. Not one person I know who has tried black-flash has said it doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference, and usually a huge difference, especially at non-baited camera locations.


Here's some hard data:

With all cameras (white-flash, red-glow, and black-flash) on the same property set to the same delay settings and same number of burst mode pictures per trigger, and all cameras left in the same unbaited location (usually scrapes, but also food plots) for at least 3 weeks:

By the second week of deployment, white-flash and red-glow cameras were getting only 40% of the pictures they were getting the first week. By the third week in the same location, white-flash and red-glow cameras were only getting 23% of the pictures they were the first week.

On the other hand, black-flash camera pictures actually increased 219% in the second week of deployment in the same location, and were 138% higher the third week than the first week. i suspect the picture counts increased in the 2nd week because it took a week for deer to get accustomed to the camera box itself. Deer notice everything, and they definitely notice and appear shy of cameras strapped to trees even in daylight. By the second week, deer had learned the camera boxes were not a threat and began ignoring them, increasing their use of the location.

And although camera avoidance appears much less at baited sites (deer will put up with a lot to get access to whatever is used to draw them to the camera at a baited site), deer definitely stayed at the baited sites for much briefer periods when monitored by visible flash cameras (white-flash or red-glow). The average "duration of stay" for an individual deer at a bait site monitored by visible flash cameras was 2.57 camera triggers (using a 5 minute camera delay, that calculates to around 7 minutes and 51 seconds). The average duration of stay for an individual deer at a baited site monitored by black-flash cameras was 18.36 triggers (with a 5 minute camera delay, 86 minutes and 48 seconds).

Very interesting, Bryan. Is that your data? Where did that come from?

A dozen different properties across the Southeast. Yes, my data.

 

[BSK]

What brand of black flash cams are ya'll using?

Right now, Reconyx and Uway. But MANY companies will have black-flash units on the market this coming year.