Independent Study

[Snake]

I helped out a little when the TWRA was doing night-time thermal imaging deer censuses years ago. We drove around at night, sitting in a high perch mounted in a truck bed, and counted deer in open areas (usually ag fields) with thermal imagers. Later, we went back and looked at the data collected on full moon nights versus new moon nights. No difference existed between the two (same number of deer out feeding). I think the lack of difference is because their night vision is so good they only need starlight to navigate at night. We humans place a lot of emphasis on full moons because it helps US see at night. Deer don't need moonlight to see at night.

I understand but I definitely have seen less deer during a full moon than other times . Could have been coincidence but I've noticed it during my hunting career. Didn't keep me from hunting but sightings were almost non existence but have killed deer during a full moon . I just hated driving to a hunting area and see deer in the fields ...knowing they'd be heading to bed soon .

 

[BSK]

I understand but I definitely have seen less deer during a full moon than other times . Could have been coincidence but I've noticed it during my hunting career. Didn't keep me from hunting but sightings were almost non existence but have killed deer during a full moon . I just hated driving to a hunting area and see deer in the fields ...knowing they'd be heading to bed soon .

I definitely see variations in the amount of night-time feeding, but for the life of me I can't link it to any particular natural occurrence/inlfuence. I'm sure there is a reason, I just haven't figured out what it is yet.

Before I ran the numbers, one thing I was positive was going to play a role was whether the moon was waxing or waning. When the moon is waxing (getting more full), the moon is up as we leave our stands at nightfall. When the moon is waning (getting less full), the moon is up when we walk to our stands in the morning. I was positive that morning versus evening deer activity would be different based on whether the moon was already up at sunrise or sunset. So I ran the numbers. Nothing...

 

[Snake]

I definitely see variations in the amount of night-time feeding, but for the life of me I can't link it to any particular natural occurrence/inlfuence. I'm sure there is a reason, I just haven't figured out what it is yet.

Before I ran the numbers, one thing I was positive was going to play a role was whether the moon was waxing or waning. When the moon is waxing (getting more full), the moon is up as we leave our stands at nightfall. When the moon is waning (getting less full), the moon is up when we walk to our stands in the morning. I was positive that morning versus evening deer activity would be different based on whether the moon was already up at sunrise or sunset. So I ran the numbers. Nothing...

Your doing these numbers on your cams on your property..right ? What about property with totally different terrain than yours like mostly fields ? Does any of you track your deer like Brian ? He's good at what he does no doubt ...but other properties could be totally different..right ?

 

[Double-D-Team]

I love talking about this stuff. There is always something to learn and I try to keep an open mind. I also did my own super limited trail cam study 2 seasons ago. And the only 2 factors that I could see had any real sway (outside the rut) were temperature and wind direction. Temperature drops usually brought more overall deer on the cameras and certain wind directions seemed to bring more bucks on the cameras. those are the only 2 correlations that presented some kind of pattern. I could not find any useful pattern out of moon phases/positions. These are just my super basic observations.

That is interesting. I know I could put all kinds of factors in this study but I'm going to try to keep it simple.

 

[killingtime 41]

If some say it has nothing to do with moon phase. Could it be possible that during a full moon. Some flowers or greenery of some kind. Will actually flower or possibly sprout. Bringing the deer to feed just because of what's sprouting or flowering. And that doesn't happen outside the brightness of a full moon. And it not actually being about the moon phase.even though it kind of is. But it gives an appearance of it being. Just thinking outside the box. I have no idea.

 

[Double-D-Team]

Food for thought? I'm going to compare moon phase to prime and minor times by the trail camera pictures I've collected from September to January. This is on the farm I hunt, all three seasons Monday through Friday some Saturdays. Half day hunts.
? is when are my deer moving the most during hunting hours.

 

[BigAl]

I'm like most and just hunt when I can. I do look at the solunar tables, but don't really hunt by them. I will say that deer do change movement times. As said, in most cases deer move at dawn/dusk, but I see times when deer deviate from that, and when they do, its no just one place (based on observations of deer driving to/and from the club.

 

[Double-D-Team]

I'm like most and just hunt when I can. I do look at the solunar tables, but don't really hunt by them. I will say that deer do change movement times. As said, in most cases deer move at dawn/dusk, but I see times when deer deviate from that, and when they do, its no just one place (based on observations of deer driving to/and from the club.

BigAl, I will probably come up with the conclusion but just because I'm retired and I want something to do. This is like I said an Independent study.

 

[WTNBowHunter]

Listen to episode 81 of Deer University done by Miss. State.

80,000 foot view of the podcast is that moon phase doesn't affect movement almost at all. It is basically dawn and dusk and the rut that increase movement. All backed with a ton of tracking data.

this! also...the first hour of the podcast reviews the study design with the second half being results. i went into this assuming that the moon had statistically significant impact on deer movement, and i was wrong.

 

[TNRifleman]

this! also...the first hour of the podcast reviews the study design with the second half being results. i went into this assuming that the moon had statistically significant impact on deer movement, and i was wrong.

Changed my thinking for sure.

 

[BSK]

Your doing these numbers on your cams on your property..right ? What about property with totally different terrain than yours like mostly fields ? Does any of you track your deer like Brian ? He's good at what he does no doubt ...but other properties could be totally different..right ?

This particular data I'm referring to (moon data) is hunter-collected deer observation data. In essence, looking at the number of deer/bucks seen under each condition and dividing by the number of hours hunted under those conditions. This gives me a "deer/bucks seen per hunting hour" number for each condition I'm looking at.

And yes, just from my property. And I only use my property's data because nobody else I know collects the level of data I do! My data collection drives the other hunters nuts, but they're used to it. Everyone has learned to collect all their observations on their phone.

I suspect deer movement is HIGHLY influenced by habitat. Flat farmland would probably see very different numbers than ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

 

[BSK]

If some say it has nothing to do with moon phase. Could it be possible that during a full moon. Some flowers or greenery of some kind. Will actually flower or possibly sprout. Bringing the deer to feed just because of what's sprouting or flowering. And that doesn't happen outside the brightness of a full moon. And it not actually being about the moon phase.even though it kind of is. But it gives an appearance of it being. Just thinking outside the box. I have no idea.

I can't think of a plant like that here, but in the desert there are plants that only bloom in moonlight (some cacti).

 

[BSK]

Food for thought? I'm going to compare moon phase to prime and minor times by the trail camera pictures I've collected from September to January. This is on the farm I hunt, all three seasons Monday through Friday some Saturdays. Half day hunts.
? is when are my deer moving the most during hunting hours.

Should be some great data!

Here's mine. This is 14 years of trail-camera data from October, November, and December. It is comprised of 4,111 older buck camera events. An "event" is any time a buck is captured on camera, but does not include every picture in the event. He may hang around and get his picture taken 50 times, but it's still just one event. The "hour" data is the hour following the listed time. For example, the bar for 4:00 PM includes all events between 4:00 to 4:59 PM. The two vertical black lines represent a basic idea of sunrise and sunset.

 

[Double-D-Team]

this! also...the first hour of the podcast reviews the study design with the second half being results. i went into this assuming that the moon had statistically significant impact on deer movement, and i was wrong.

There are 4 parts to this blog so fare. I got number 4 tonight on YouTube.

 

[Smo]

I'm a believer…

I've hunted the moon phase since back in the early 90's.
A Friend told me about how feeding times coincide with the moons position during each moon phase.
He allowed that deer under normal conditions would feed / move approximately every 6 hours.
His explanation was when the moons path was directly overhead (noon on a New Moon ) that was a major feeding time.
When it was directly underfoot (12 hrs later midnight) that was the 2nd major feeding time that 24 hour cycle.
2 minor feeding cycles would occur at 3:00 pm & 9:00 on a typical New Moon phase..

At that time I belonged too a hunting club and could usually only hunt weekends & holidays.

But I started hunting the moon phase and feeding times..
I hunted 2 hours prior to prime feeding time until 2 hours after..sometimes going 3 before & 3 hours after prime time.
My numbers of deer sightings far out numbered any of the others in the club.

During the rut, as mentioned above anytime in the woods is a good time.

I still find by running trail cams that I see more activity during those prime feeding time than any other times..except the rut.

Keep in mind the moon rises approximately 45 -48 minutes later each day so adjust your hunting times as applicable..

Full moon days I rarely get to the stand before 9:00 am..

I recall growing up my Dad and I squirrel hunted a lot..
Some weekends would would go early and some weekends we would go in the afternoons..I never ask why, but I think I know now..

 

[BSK]

Interesting stuff Smo!

 

[BSK]

Double-D-Team,

Depending on how you're going to store and calculate your data, you might want to brush up on Excel macros! I can't tell you how many days I spent learning to write macros. And some get really crazy. Do you want to know what this crazy bit of gobbledy-gook does?

=IF(AND(G14>=(VLOOKUP(A14,$BO$2:$BS$93,4,FALSE)),G14<=(VLOOKUP(A14,$BO$2:$BS$93,5,FALSE))),"D","N")

All it does is for a given camera event, compare the date and time against a table of sunrise and sunset times for every day of the season, and check to see if the camera event time falls within 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset, for that date. If it does, assign the value "D" (for "Daylight") to this cell. If not, assign the value "N" (for Night) to this cell.

It took me hours to get that little line of code to work right! But having each record with its own "flag" for whether it is during legal daylight or not is a HUGE help for analysis.

 

[Popcorn]

Never read a moon chart at the same time I have always paid attention to the moon. The above post by @Smo makes sense. My rules have been to hunt early and late on dark nights, hunt mid day on bright nights. Heavy cloud cover and or overnight rain always had a similar effect.

 

[Snake]

This particular data I'm referring to (moon data) is hunter-collected deer observation data. In essence, looking at the number of deer/bucks seen under each condition and dividing by the number of hours hunted under those conditions. This gives me a "deer/bucks seen per hunting hour" number for each condition I'm looking at.

And yes, just from my property. And I only use my property's data because nobody else I know collects the level of data I do! My data collection drives the other hunters nuts, but they're used to it. Everyone has learned to collect all their observations on their phone.

I suspect deer movement is HIGHLY influenced by habitat. Flat farmland would probably see very different numbers than ridge-and-hollow hardwoods.

I admire your commitment to collecting data and then using it . Has to take up some time.

 

[Ski]

There absolutely is credence to it but not in the way people expect and not to the scale they expect.

If you're expecting to see a dramatic difference in distance and time of movement then you're going to be disappointed. GPS collar studies will confirm that.

However, if you're set up 50yds from a crest where you suspect a buck is bedded or staged, with plans to kill him as he sets out for the evening, then your success will rest inside a tiny window of time. Minutes and feet make the difference. If he moves 10yds/minute as he browses his way down the trail and shooting light ends at 5:45pm, then he has to be on his feet headed your way by 5:42pm if you want a 20yd shot. If an overhead moon urges him to move at that time then you kill a buck. If a low moon keeps him in his stage until 5:43 or 5:44 then you don't kill a buck.

That is the fringe many of us regularly hunt on. And while moon position isn't by itself a deciding factor, it is absolutely one of several criteria that if stacked up simultaneously make for a higher odds sit. And in a tight game like that odds are everything.

At 13:15 in this YouTube vid, Dr. Strickland explains pretty much exactly what I was talking about. Both in major and minor moon positions bucks were on their feet measurably longer than normal. HUGELY during minor position times they were 18 minutes later to bed down in the morning and 6 minutes earlier to move in the evening. Like I said above in my previous post just a minute or two makes a tremendous difference in killing a buck or not. I'm a big fan of Dr. Strickland and the research he oversees but the way he dismisses his own data on this subject as insignificant baffles me. A buck predictably being on his feet nearly 20 minutes later in the morning and 6 minutes earlier in the evening is most definitely not insignificant.

I mean if you're hunting out of a box blind from 200yds away over a corn field then yeah for you those few minutes probably don't mean much. But for those of us hunting next to buck bedding with a bow it means everything.

 

[BSK]

I'm a big fan of Dr. Strickland and the research he oversees but the way he dismisses his own data on this subject as insignificant baffles me. A buck predictably being on his feet nearly 20 minutes later in the morning and 6 minutes earlier in the evening is most definitely not insignificant.

I mean if you're hunting out of a box blind from 200yds away over a corn field then yeah for you those few minutes probably don't mean much. But for those of us hunting next to buck bedding with a bow it means everything.

Because Dr. Strickland (an awesome guy and great wildlife scientist) is a scientist, and science runs on statistics. And there are very strict rules in science as to what is "significant." It is based on detailed calculations, not what a person arbitrarily decides is significant to them. And I'm not putting you are only else down for what they feel is "significant." Your view of significance is perfectly valid to you. Each person's view of "significance" is valid to them. But in science, significance has a very strict meaning that must be provable through statistical calculation.

 

[BigJohnJTP]

As a person that has been involved in information and technology related fields all my life I certainly am interested in data driven insights into everything – including hunting. So I pay attention to research conducted by organizations AND individuals for "lessons learned" but don't necessarily simplistically adopt recommendations from organizations or individuals without taking it with the proverbial "grain of salt". After all, my Google/GPS regularly send me on some weird-ass back roads route to get somewhere "faster" when I know a few non-curvy main-road easier and safer ways to get there!

Looking at deer hunting lessons over the years I have noticed some of things discussed in this thread that I could agree with. For instance, I have noticed over the years that deer definitely (SEEM TO ME) to run around and feed more on/after moon-lit nights and therefore go back in earlier in the morning. You can see this as I did years ago watching deer regularly coming out of bedding areas in the early morning and back in earlier in the morning into a large pine bedding area. Especially if there had been a huge temperature drop the day before. And during the rut it is definitely better to stay on stand all day long because bucks are chasing does – all day long. And if TNDEER posters are saying the rut is on – it probably is.

However, coyotes running through an area the night before, a recent intense rainstorm, cloudy skies even though the moon was full, new hunters stomping around on adjacent property, a hard mast failure, neighbors with late food plots, and trespassers are typical examples of where the value of "scientifically derived insights" all become almost worthless distractions from what is important.

GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE! Descent yourself, walk in quietly, and stay secluded and unseen. You can't kill one if you're not out there.

 

[Double-D-Team]

I'm a believer…

View attachment 264114

View attachment 264115


I've hunted the moon phase since back in the early 90's.
A Friend told me about how feeding times coincide with the moons position during each moon phase.
He allowed that deer under normal conditions would feed / move approximately every 6 hours.
His explanation was when the moons path was directly overhead (noon on a New Moon ) that was a major feeding time.
When it was directly underfoot (12 hrs later midnight) that was the 2nd major feeding time that 24 hour cycle.
2 minor feeding cycles would occur at 3:00 pm & 9:00 on a typical New Moon phase..

At that time I belonged too a hunting club and could usually only hunt weekends & holidays.

But I started hunting the moon phase and feeding times..
I hunted 2 hours prior to prime feeding time until 2 hours after..sometimes going 3 before & 3 hours after prime time.
My numbers of deer sightings far out numbered any of the others in the club.

During the rut, as mentioned above anytime in the woods is a good time.

I still find by running trail cams that I see more activity during those prime feeding time than any other times..except the rut.

Keep in mind the moon rises approximately 45 -48 minutes later each day so adjust your hunting times as applicable..

Full moon days I rarely get to the stand before 9:00 am..

I recall growing up my Dad and I squirrel hunted a lot..
Some weekends would would go early and some weekends we would go in the afternoons..I never ask why, but I think I know now..

Thank you for your input. I like hunting days on a new moon, I seem to see more deer.

 

[Double-D-Team]

I don't use apps, and I certainly haven't studied moon phase hunting that much. What I have noticed during October is very late morning movement during a full moon, almost to the point that I don't care if I get in a stand within the first hour of daylight.

I've also enjoyed many a moonlit evening from a treestand as the sound of approaching deer kept me pinned down right at last light in my tree, hoping I wouldn't educate them by climbing down.

I hate hunting in October during a full moon.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Smo]

Thank you for your input. I like hunting days on a new moon, I seem to see more deer.

I hunt basically the same pattern on a Full Moon with similar results..
These are the days I like too hunt 9:00 to 15:00 hrs.

 

[Double-D-Team]

Double-D-Team,

Depending on how you're going to store and calculate your data, you might want to brush up on Excel macros! I can't tell you how many days I spent learning to write macros. And some get really crazy. Do you want to know what this crazy bit of gobbledy-gook does?

=IF(AND(G14>=(VLOOKUP(A14,$BO$2:$BS$93,4,FALSE)),G14<=(VLOOKUP(A14,$BO$2:$BS$93,5,FALSE))),"D","N")

All it does is for a given camera event, compare the date and time against a table of sunrise and sunset times for every day of the season, and check to see if the camera event time falls within 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset, for that date. If it does, assign the value "D" (for "Daylight") to this cell. If not, assign the value "N" (for Night) to this cell.

It took me hours to get that little line of code to work right! But having each record with its own "flag" for whether it is during legal daylight or not is a HUGE help for analysis.

, well above my level. I plan to go back over each photo and with pincel and paper chart moon phase, time, type deer or both, by date from September to January. I hoping this will give me when the best times for movement and what was the collation to the moon phase. Like I said this is a 600 acre farm with rolling hills of hardwood with a creek bottom. It also has hay fields 2, approximately 12 acres. Camera's covered most of of the property.

 

[mike243]

I have seen small game react to storms coming in with high activity, reading along I haven't seen the first mention of the barometer readings, I suspect it plays as a big of a roll with big game as small game.

 

[Ski]

Because Dr. Strickland (an awesome guy and great wildlife scientist) is a scientist, and science runs on statistics. And there are very strict rules in science as to what is "significant." It is based on detailed calculations, not what a person arbitrarily decides is significant to them. And I'm not putting you are only else down for what they feel is "significant." Your view of significance is perfectly valid to you. Each person's view of "significance" is valid to them. But in science, significance has a very strict meaning that must be provable through statistical calculation.

No offense taken at all. I'm well aware every hunter has different methods. Some will see a few minutes as meaning nothing. Others like myself see a few minutes as the deciding factor. I was just surprised to see him think bucks being on their feet in daylight nearly half hour longer than normal isn't significant.

 

[Double-D-Team]

I have seen small game react to storms coming in with high activity, reading along I haven't seen the first mention of the barometer readings, I suspect it plays as a big of a roll with big game as small game.

That would be another factor.

 

[BSK]

No offense taken at all. I'm well aware every hunter has different methods. Some will see a few minutes as meaning nothing. Others like myself see a few minutes as the deciding factor. I was just surprised to see him think bucks being on their feet in daylight nearly half hour longer than normal isn't significant.

In science, the term "significant" is actually a specific statistically calculated number. If the value doesn't fall within a certain range - even if there is an obvious difference - it isn't statistically significant.