Increasing Penetration

[lightsareout]

I'm shooting a PSE Drive, 27" inch drawn length and a 68 pound pull. Arrows are Easton Bow Fire 330s which are 9.6 gpi. I've shot 2 deer this year with 3 blade swhacker heads. Both deer did not get pass throughs. First deer got 8-10" into the boiler room, took out both lungs saw the deer go down. Second deer got deeper in; found when skinning the blade did exit the opposite rib cage but did not exit the hide. I also saw this deer go down in sight. With this said I'm happy with the results, but without an exit wound I am not getting much of a blood trail; if I needed it.

Would a heavier arrow give the extra force to guarantee a pass through? I don't really want to give up on the 3 blade swhackers as they are devastating with a well placed shot.

 

[Fulldraw61]

I'm shooting a PSE Drive, 27" inch drawn length and a 68 pound pull. Arrows are Easton Bow Fire 330s which are 9.6 gpi. I've shot 2 deer this year with 3 blade swhacker heads. Both deer did not get pass throughs. First deer got 8-10" into the boiler room, took out both lungs saw the deer go down. Second deer got deeper in; found when skinning the blade did exit the opposite rib cage but did not exit the hide. I also saw this deer go down in sight. With this said I'm happy with the results, but without an exit wound I am not getting much of a blood trail; if I needed it.

Would a heavier arrow give the extra force to guarantee a pass through? I don't really want to give up on the 3 blade swhackers as they are devastating with a well placed shot.

I would go with a heavier arrow. I would advise being careful with the Bowfires. I had one come apart on me upon release and had I not had on sunglasses I would have lost my right eye. I have used Easton products for a long time but trashed the remaining Bowfires. They are pretty but not very practical.

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[PillsburyDoughboy]

I'm shooting a PSE Drive, 27" inch drawn length and a 68 pound pull. Arrows are Easton Bow Fire 330s which are 9.6 gpi. I've shot 2 deer this year with 3 blade swhacker heads. Both deer did not get pass throughs. First deer got 8-10" into the boiler room, took out both lungs saw the deer go down. Second deer got deeper in; found when skinning the blade did exit the opposite rib cage but did not exit the hide. I also saw this deer go down in sight. With this said I'm happy with the results, but without an exit wound I am not getting much of a blood trail; if I needed it.

Would a heavier arrow give the extra force to guarantee a pass through? I don't really want to give up on the 3 blade swhackers as they are devastating with a well placed shot.

There are no guarantee pass though. I too am a short draw shooter and I am only pulling 58lbs and have a 9.6 GPI arrow. I get pass throughs most of the time..not all the time. But I always get adequate penetration up to about 18 Inches MIN of arrow which is plenty enough for White Tail IMHO
You have a good quality Head. No need to switch.

As far as arrows at 9.6 GPI you could step it up shooting 68lb draw.

I would be looking at the Gold Tip Hunter XT 300 Spine at 10.9 GPI and see how they fly. Should be a better overall arrow for your setup IMHO.

the Gold Tip Ted Nugent 300 is one of my favorite arrows out there. Good looking and fly Damn Straight. They are 10.8 GPI. You will not find a better arrow for the money.

 

[Pinwheeled]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


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[lightsareout]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


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I have thought seriously about the slick tricks (even had them in the cart at bass pro) but the price turns me away on them. The one guy i was talking to says one shot and replace the blades..... so i'm not sure I want to change.

 

[tree_ghost]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


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This is good info. Your biggest determining factor in getting a pass through shot(besides arrow placement on the shot) is your broadhead. I use Shwackers and Killzones. The problem with the Shwackers is they produce a very small entrance hole. It takes a lot of energy to open those blades after impact not to mention your using the 3 blade model...if you loose to much energy opening the blades then there is no exit hole. Without an exit hole your going to have a tough blood trail to follow. The kilzones give me a better entrance hole due to the rear deploy design on them. My wife shoots a 25" draw and 42lbs and I'm pretty certain has had a pass through on every deer she has killed. She is shooting carbon express arrows and G5 monotecs that I sharpen on an arkansas stone. It's not about draw length and speed. It has to do with energy lost on deploying blades and them needing to be sharper


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[Fulldraw61]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


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I have thought seriously about the slick tricks (even had them in the cart at bass pro) but the price turns me away on them. The one guy i was talking to says one shot and replace the blades..... so i'm not sure I want to change.

You can't go wrong wih Slick Tricks. They fly very straight and great pass throughs. I shot a small buck this past weekend slightly quartered away at 36 yards and arrow passed through to the point I couldn't find it. Solid blood trail for about 50 yards and done. A lot of people swear by mechanicals and I have tried about every broadhead out there and stayed with 125 grain Slick Trick. With today's faster bows their lower profile will not plane like the older Muzzys. I hope this helps.

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[lightsareout]

Thank you everyone for the advice so far. Defiantly giving me many points to think about in adjusting my set up in the off season.

part of me wants to drop my draw weight and go with a fixed blade, while part of me wants to either keep the 3 blade swhakcers and try to get them to punch through or go to the 2 blade.....I can see benefits and cons to both directions.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

As far as kinetic energy is concerned, arrow weight and speed are relative—given that poundage stays the same. If you go up in arrow weight, the speed will decrease resulting in close to the same amount of kinetic energy, unless you make a huge change in arrow weight. However, momentum will increase by doing so. I ran two sets of numbers for you, right now you are somewhere in the neighborhood of 408ish arrow weight and 270ish in speed which is 66 ft/lbs of k/e and .488 momentum. Increasing arrow weight to 440gr will decrease your speed to mid 250's and insignificantly decrease your k/e 63ft/lbs, but slightly increases your momentum to .498.

There is a lot of good information already provided to you by treeghost and pinwheeled. I suspect that the 3-blade Schwacker is the root cause of your problem, as the energy expended for opening three blades and the surface friction of all that metal is giving the results you're seeing. I've have friends that are longer draw shooters that have had similar results from 3 blade mechanical heads. However, I'm seeing a ton of good results from the 2 blade Schwackers and also the Killzone heads. I've shot Slick Tricks and G5 Strikers for years and they are solid performers and you can resharpen the blades instead of buying new ones, if you're so inclined. This past weekend I did use a Killzone head and was very impressed with it, so this longtime anti-mechanical guy is somewhat swayed a bit, but I would get away from the 3-blade instead of changing arrows—your weight is good.

 

[lightsareout]

As far as kinetic energy is concerned, arrow weight and speed are relative—given that poundage stays the same. If you go up in arrow weight, the speed will decrease resulting in close to the same amount of kinetic energy, unless you make a huge change in arrow weight. However, momentum will increase by doing so. I ran two sets of numbers for you, right now you are somewhere in the neighborhood of 408ish arrow weight and 270ish in speed which is 66 ft/lbs of k/e and .488 momentum. Increasing arrow weight to 440gr will decrease your speed to mid 250's and insignificantly decrease your k/e 63ft/lbs, but slightly increases your momentum to .498.

There is a lot of good information already provided to you by treeghost and pinwheeled. I suspect that the 3-blade Schwacker is the root cause of your problem, as the energy expended for opening three blades and the surface friction of all that metal is giving the results you're seeing. I've have friends that are longer draw shooters that have had similar results from 3 blade mechanical heads. However, I'm seeing a ton of good results from the 2 blade Schwackers and also the Killzone heads. I've shot Slick Tricks and G5 Strikers for years and they are solid performers and you can resharpen the blades instead of buying new ones, if you're so inclined. This past weekend I did use a Killzone head and was very impressed with it, so this longtime anti-mechanical guy is somewhat swayed a bit, but I would get away from the 3-blade instead of changing arrows—your weight is good.

you are right on with the numbers i figured for my current arrows. Thank you for pointing out the changes i would see with a heavier arrow. I have one 2 blade left, hope to get a chance to stick another one this year; hoping for a pass through.

 

[Pinwheeled]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


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I have thought seriously about the slick tricks (even had them in the cart at bass pro) but the price turns me away on them. The one guy i was talking to says one shot and replace the blades..... so i'm not sure I want to change.

Slick Tricks do come 4 to a pack, just something to keep in mind. The blades are about as durable as anything else I've shot.


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[lightsareout]

I also have T-Rex arms shooting a 27" draw at around 65#. I honestly can't remember the last time I did not get a pass through. Ive shot a lot of different arrow weights with great results. The main difference in my setup is that I don't shoot mechanicals. I stick to average sized fixed blades like Slick Trick Magnums and a G5 Strikers. Both great heads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have thought seriously about the slick tricks (even had them in the cart at bass pro) but the price turns me away on them. The one guy i was talking to says one shot and replace the blades..... so i'm not sure I want to change.

Slick Tricks do come 4 to a pack, just something to keep in mind. The blades are about as durable as anything else I've shot.


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can they be resharpened?

 

[TNDeerGuy]

Yes, they can be sharpened if you know what you're doing. I've used a Lansky Sharpening system on both slick trick and G5 blades with no problem and it's ready. I've gotten pretty good at doing them on a belt Sharpener as well.

 

[Headhunter]

To an extent, I shoot the heaviest arrow as fast as my bow will push it, accurately. I have only not had a pass thru on a deer 3 times (spine shots under 30 yards and my very first bow kill which was with a 45 lb proline and an 18/16 arrow), every other deer I have killed (I am over 150 kills) my arrow has passed thru.

I have gotten things right and and gotten things wrong, but some of the most interesting kills I have made include:

I have shot deer from distances of feet to 66 yards (66 yard kill complete pass thru and the doe made it about 15 feet and died)

quartering to me (my first pope and young buck I shot from the ground at 42 yards in the front shoulder quartering to me, you can see the hole in the hide in the mount, and it passed thru and stuck in a tree, he went about 40 yards and piled up)

quartering away from me

broadside

straight down (shot 1 in the mouth blowing at me at 30 yards dropped in her tracks never will do that again though)

shot one in the shoulder (witnesses) from the ground at 38 yards quartering to me and it passed all the through the doe and exited in the middle of back ham

from 45 feet up in a treestand, etc.

Did I say, to an extent I shoot the heaviest arrow as fast as my bow will push it, accurately. Myself, I would prefer a 500 grain arrow at 250 fps or so over a 350 to 400 grain arrow at over 300 fps any day. Currently shooting a 485 to 489 grain arrow setup in the mid 280's, brand new bow, and haven't killed anything with it yet, but hopefully will get a chance soon.

 

[jb357]

I made the switch to slick tricks a few years ago and have sent all 6 through multiple deer. Still using the original blades. One even had to be chiseled out of a tree. I just clean them up, sharpen them, and go again.
As far as arrows go I prefer to use acc's because they shoot better, hold up abuse better, and seem to zip through a deer faster than full carbon arrows. I'm thinking about giving fmj's a try since they are a little heavier and seem to be well liked for hunting.