I took the plunge

[TraumaSlave]

I just couldn't do it any more. I couldn't walk past the gun case at Walmart and pass on a $269 Traditions Pursuit G4 on clearance for $140. Now comes figuring out this whole muzzle loader deal. I've never done it. Gotta come up with scope mounts, rings,, o yeah and some propellant and projectiles. Gunna be a great spring!

 

['borohunter]

It will be fun... and worth it...

 

[MUP]

Yes it will! And that was a great price as well!

 

[TraumaSlave]

Time haa come to start tuning a load. I am ignorant. BH209 vs 777? Powder vs pellets? Amount? Weight of slug? Slug to stay away from?

 

[Harold Money jr]

Everything any of us say really has a lot of OPINION in it. Heres my opinion. If you are wanting to keep it as simple and cheap as possible with everything then buy pellets in 50gr and drop two down your barrel. I shoot 777 fffg loose but it's not the end all. I like and buy sabots by the 100 and bullets in the same quantity. I'd buy a pack of 50 sabots in green for .44 or black for .45 bullets. Then my opinion again hornady XTP's in 240gr on up to 300gr. Buy some 209 primers for muzzleloader. And sight in at 25yards first then back up to 100yards and adjust to hit dead center. Move back to 50yds to see where it hits. Go hunting. So 100gr of pellets pushing a 240gr and heavier bullet with sabot, ignited with 209 primer equals deer killed for the next several years.

 

[MUP]

I'm not particular, as I don't shoot over 100 yds, so I still use 90-100 gr loose Pyrodex(different ML's) and a 260 gr lead conical in a black sabot. It's always worked well for me. I did try Blackhorn 209 one season, but my old CVA Kodiak Mag wouldn't fire consistently with it, something about the BP design on the early models. I'm good with the ol Pyro tho.

 

[GMB54]

BH209 is a nitro based powder and cleans up with centerfire type solvents. You can reload and shoot many times without swabbing but it still needs to be cleaned when done shooting. BH209 requires full power 209 primers to ignite reliably. DONT GET 209 PRIMERS MADE FOR MUZZLE LOADERS. Use a regular Win209 or a Mag primer like CCI209M or Fed209A.

Triple7 is not terribly corrosive but it does leave a nasty crud ring making it almost impossible to reload within a shot or two. Swabbing between shots is more or less mandatory.

Pellets are the most expensive per shot cost and produce the worst velocity. 2 pellets makes about the same speed as 80grV of BH209 or around 85-90grV of Triple7 loose. Both Triple7 pellets and Pyrodex pellets offer very similar speed. Pyrodex is just far more corrosive. Both clean up with water based cleaners like plain old soap and water. If shooting Pyrodex i would clean it twice to make sure. Seen the stuff ruin many a barrel that was not cleaned extremely well.

Traditions barrels are often very tight. You will probably need Harvester Crushrib sabots or MMP 3Petal-EZ sabots if its super tight. The 3P-EZ sabot is the same one sold with SST bullets. You can buy them directly from MMP and i think Traditions sells them in 50 packs too.

Lotta deer have died to the cheap old .452 250gr XTP. Much better bullet than the 240gr XTP MAG for typical loads. The MAG is much tougher and requires much more speed to expand well. Speer offers a really good 260gr bullet also. It listed as a plinker but its a really good Uni-Cor bullet. It does not need a ton of speed to expand and its "jacket" is bonded to the lead core. Very similar design to the more expensive DeepCurls and GoldDots.

https://www.speer-ammo.com/products/bul ... ullet/4481

Get a box of them at Grafs and some sabots. That should get you started cheap with a load that will easily kill deer.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/17363
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... uctId/5465

You will need a couple other items to bring the order upto $40 for the minimum.
Get a powder measure https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/77950
And a ball starter. You are gunna need one now matter what sabot you shoot. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... uctId/2665

 

[GMB54]

Cleaning

Clean the hell out of that barrel before you ever shoot it. Scrub it good with a centerfire solvent and make certain you got all the shipping gunk out of it. The stuff can be a real pain to get out and its horrible if you fire it with packing grease still in it. I like to run at least 25-50 passes of JB Bore Shine through a new bore before its ever shot. It helps get out any crud solvents missed and lightly polishes the bore.

AVOID the garbage Bore Butter and Wonder Lube stuff for storage. Use a good synthetic gun oil after cleaning. Mineral oil based products are also pretty good such as Montana Xtreme or Ballistol. Not the best for long term storage but decent products for use with real black or subs. When you are going to put it away for long term try WD-40 Specialist Long Term Protection. The stuff is excellent at preventing rust but should be swabbed out when you do get ready to shoot again.

Its cheap compared to gun oils and one of the best in tests ive seen
https://www.homedepot.com/p/WD-40-SPECI ... /300719560

 

[TraumaSlave]

Is it possible to buy .44 mag bullets, ie Hornady ftx 240g, and use them with a sabot?

 

[GMB54]

Yes, they sell bulk 44cal bullets and bulk 50x44cal sabots. The 44cal FTX though is a 225gr for 44Mag or the 265gr for 444 Marlin, not a 240gr.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/ftx#!/

 

[Andy S.]

^^^ Listen to him, he will steer you into great choices. Best of luck with your new MZer.

 

[GMB54]

Im not actually a fan of 50x44 but some people have great luck with them. I just find 50x45 to be easier to get the accuracy i want. Plus there are tons of great 45cal bullets for MLs and more sabot choices.

One thing to consider is that G4 is VERY light weight. I also have a VERY light weight ML called a NULA. I find shooting some of the lighter bullets faster is more enjoyable. The Barnes 45LC 225gr XPB is outstanding for this application. A little pricey and not really a long range bullet but otherwise it knocks the snot out of deer without rocking you so much. I would not get too caught up in them fancy tipped bullets. The BC increase wont mean squat for most people. If your shots are mostly under 150 yards, a better BC is virtually useless.

You are better off choosing a bullet that performs as intended/designed over a wider velocity range. 3-4 of the Speer bullets do this extremely well at a really good price point. They have a few great 44cals also.

Here is a list of water jug tests done by a member of a couple ML forums. The loads may seem light but they would estimate impact speeds at a distance after the bullets had time to slow. While water jugs aint no deer the comparisons are very valid.
http://www.rchs61.org/capturedbullets.htm

 

[Smo]

I like Birchwood Casey's Barricade for long term storage.

I thought "all" muzzleloaders needed cleaning after shooting?