Hunter Skill Comment

[eastTN270]

The hunter skill vs quality land question got me thinking. I agree with most that quality land is definitely the answer, and that you cannot kill what is not there. My thought is, if you don't have quality land, how do you know if you are a skilled hunter. I'm over in East Tennessee where deer numbers are low. I have a few small pieces of private land to hunt (50 acres). I plant food plots, try to do some habitat work, etc. Just the last few years I've tried to learn more about terrain features, etc. But, through all this I've never killed a mature buck. The buck (3.5 y.o.) in my profile was killed in Stewart county just by dumb luck, but nothing over 2.5 y.o. I want to kill and hunt big mature deer, but how do I know if I'm just a bad hunter or the land I'm on will never afford me the opportunity. Or are there other factors I'm missing?

 

[Roost 1]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Pour out LOTS of corn and wait until he starts showing up pretty regular checking does.
Never let them run out of corn or they will move to your neighbors corn pile.
Good luck..

 

[Nsghunter]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Roost one has a good idea especially if you chose not to pull the trigger for a season...

One measurement would be how many deer do you see on your property. If you don't have monster bucks I would say that seeing seeing frequent deer is a good sign. Also, how often do you choose a location for a specific feature (ie trail to a water or food source from a bedding area or a terrain feature that would give you the upper hand) and then see deer there? This would be a great indicator.

 

[fairchaser]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Get a camera survey and develop a list of up and comers and target bucks. If your able to be successful harvesting your targets bucks then you are a skilled hunter.

 

[Goodtimekiller]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Buy lots of land and the deer will show up.


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[Mike Belt]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Fairchaser has the right idea although cameras may not capture all the bucks that may be using your property. It will give you an idea of what may be around at least prior to Fall dispersal. If any of the land around you is in hunting clubs see if they record ages. That may give you an idea if many bucks are living until mature in the area.

 

[alaska_av8r]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

First off you are right in that the environment plays a major role in what you harvest. If they aren't there no, matter how good you are you aren't getting them.

So with that said how do you define a "skilled hunter". Is it someone that kills X amount of deer every year? Is it someone that kills big deer every year? I know some folks that everyone in the neighborhood thinks are the most skilled woodsmen around but what those folks don't see are the corn piles or the shell casings in the floorboard, the spotlight, you get my drift. Do you include ethics in your definition of skilled hunter? What does this hunter do when no one is watching? So you have to determine what your definition of a skilled hunter is and that definition may or may not be the same as mine. When you finally settle on a good definition be warned, it may change as you mature as a hunter, or it may not. Also avoid comparing yourself to others when it comes to hunting, that is easier said than done I know, deer hunters are competitive by nature. I think this is written in our DNA from cavemen days when Grog would go out and club a deer or some other critter, we like to provide, we like to brag. What really matters is what do you want to get out of the sport?

Now let's throw in ethics, is a skilled hunter an ethical hunter? Or is an ethical hunter a skilled hunter? Not necessarily so in either case. Does it matter? To me it does. That is one of my biggest complaints about many of the hunting shows that trash the minds of our younger hunters these days all out to make the mighty buck ($) no pun intended.

So in my mind here is the list of qualities I strive for as a hunter in priority order (everyone's list will be different).
1. Always, always respect the animal, always.....even if they make you madder than a shaken hornets nest
2. Hunt with the highest ethics I can and if I don't, see rule #1
3. Strive to find adventure in every hunt, did an owl sit on the limb above you etc, it's all about the hunt, not the kill.
4. You are never too old to learn something new, and you will each time you go in the woods if you pay attention
5. Never take yourself too serious, deer will always make a fool out of you, see rule #1

So my thoughts are don't worry about judging yourself too much, do your due diligence on learning as much as you can about deer behavior and spend as much time in the woods as you can. You are going to gain knowledge and skills as you go. Another important point is to find other like minded hunters and befriend them, this type of networking can open doors to opportunities to hunt better ground.

So let me tell a story. Hunter Bob I'll call him walked down a field road to the edge of some hardwoods and sat back against a big oak. As it started to get light he glanced to his left and saw a large buck easing along the hardwood edge. Boom and 30 minutes later he is dragging out a 140" 10 point. It was a beautiful buck and heck yeah I would have taken him. It was Bobs first time on the property so the only real skill was being able to remain calm and make the shot. He did good!

Then there is Bubba misty rain wind in his face easing down a Field road in an over grown field alongside a milo/Egyptian wheat plot. He sees a doe ease off the path in front of him about 50 yds away and decides to cut her off (thinking she will taste good). He moves left 10 yds expecting to see her standing in a bush hog lane parallel to field road, hmmm not there, moves to next lane, not there either. So back to the field road, there she is moving up the field road about 80 yds away. His Binocs come up to make sure she is a she and wait, that wheat stalk to the right of the road is moving, and it's getting bigger. Holy @#$&&%, one, two, G2 is 12", G3 is 10"....turn your head...grrrr ...not that way...ok spread is good ...come on out little further lemme see other side, does it match...stop don't go that way...binocs down rifle up...other side is good, crap going away from me can't see nothing but back of head, he stopped 70 yards away. Bubba moves forward about 5 steps now he can see most neck and the buck just needs to turn left to follow the doe and expose himself. What...noooo don't go that way, the buck goes right into the tall wheat. Bubba sidesteps right into the tall wheat knowing the short milo will let him see the buck. He peers past the wheat over the shorter milo and sees hindquarters moving into the next alternating row of wheat. Wait what the....a fork horn is feeding on the milo 20 yds in front of him...thank goodness he is facing the other way...Bubba backs up,slowly back out into field road...think, think quick....ok backtrack down field road to this end of the plot to get away from forkhorn and.....

I could finish the story about Bubba (which if you couldn't figure it out was me) but it would take a while since (insert brag here so they will think I have mad skills and luck wasn't involved) I spent another hour within 100 yds or less of 12 deer and managed to not get busted. I consider myself a skilled hunter especially skilled at being lucky. Now if you had been sitting in a tree watching this whole ordeal you woulda thought I was a one Armed crack smoker and fell outta the tree laughing at me, heck I laughed my a@@ off when it was all over. Was that hunt a success, absolutely! I met every single one of the items on my list.

EastTN270 the point is if you are asking "if you are a bad hunter" I would say NO. If you are examining yourself to the point of asking that question, then you are a conscientious enough person to be well on your way to success. You just need to determine what success means to you. Remember you will learn/forget, have good/bad days, fail/succeed smile/curse over and over again, most of all don't ever forget to have fun. And if you want to hunt more mature deer, you are right in thinking you may have to find better hunting grounds to increase your odds. Remember you can't kill em if they aren't there. Just to give you a frame of reference I ran formal cam surveys in prior club near Oxford MS, on 3000 acres we had 30 permitted cams out over bait for two weeks before the season. This was a really good area and out of those thousands of pics we would only identify 10 mature bucks 4.5 yrs old or older on average on an unmanaged herd. Another thing is talk to your local TWRA biologists they probably can tell you what to expect and may even be willing to visit the property

 

[MUP]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Ok, I have a small tract of land that I hunt as well, and it's the only land I hunt anymore. I own it, and have walked this property over and over, scouting, hunting, just walking to be walking. I don't consider myself a great hunter, but I do know my property, and I do know where the deer move, WHEN they move thru it. There's no guarantee that the deer around a small property will always BE on that small piece of land, quite the opposite, most times they'll likely be wandering on the neighboring land just as much, or more, depending on the sizes of your place and of those around you. I have just scouted my place, know it, and have placed stands according to feeding areas, travel corridors, and combined those two with terrain features for the best location I could come up with for stand placement. It's worked well for me over the years, but again, my place is only 50+ acres, and has another 100+ of family land around it, and hundreds of other landowner neighbor acres around that. We talk, and kinda get the gist of deer movement between us at times, and that helps a lot. Just know your land, and hunt the wind accordingly is my advice. Good luck!

 

[Winchester]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I think being a legal and Ethical hunter have to be a given before anyone would consider you "Good" at what you do. Thats how I feel anyway. That said very very few people in TN hunt an area where not a single mature buck at least passes through, and very few hunt an area where the population of mature bucks isnt at a decent huntable level. Now I didnt say big racked bucks abound, as mature and big racked dont always go together. The story posted earlier will help with the point Im trying to make, as anybody can be lucky every few years in acquiring the goal'(s) they set out to achieve. Luck however is just that (random). IMO to be really good at what you do you have to have CONSISTENT success, where luck is left behind for the most part. I now hunt East TN the majority of the time but in years past have hunted all over middle and mid/west TN. While we dont have the #'s here like farther West we do now have plenty of deer to have some good hunting if a lil homework is done, even on Public property.

 

[7X57]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I enjoyed reading the post above by ALASKA. I hope all strive to get more from hunting than just a big buck on the wall. We all know hunters like that and they seem to be living with a degree of misery to some extent. My favorite hunts have been with my kids and even my Mom. The guys always laugh about me taking my Mom, but she loves the outdoors as she grew up trapping with her Dad, and I'm not a selfish person. We've had some great and successful hunts over the years. Anyways, point is that you should form a list in order of importance like Alaska suggested above. I don't want to get 40 years down the road and regret how I chose to hunt because that's what my buddies do. My list starts as:
1. Giving praise to the Lord for the time, kill, and experience.
2. Respect of the animal. (Don't devalue a buck because of rack size.)
3. Spending time with the people I love and providing them a place to enjoy God's creation just as I want to do.
...

 

[gobblinfool]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I would say that a skilled hunter is one that could be dropped off anywhere in America or the world and figure out how to get the most out of their hunt. Lets face it, if we had to compare ourselves to the likes of Fred Bear.....would we be in the ballpark? Think of how technology has helped us to understand/find our quarry......again we are the experts at home on our own turf...now step off your turf and go after another animal.

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Pour out LOTS of corn and wait until he starts showing up pretty regular checking does.
Never let them run out of corn or they will move to your neighbors corn pile.
Good luck..

:lol: :lol: :lol: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[alaska_av8r]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Tks 7x57! This post by EastTN270 struck a nerve with me, it struck a nerve forcing me to speak up about something I feel is very important and I apologize for hijacking this thread if I do.

1. This will make me look like a suck up but so be it, it is heartfelt. Thank you for this forum and thank you for the most considerate, thoughtful, mature, knowledgeable and friendly members that make this forum what it is. I regularly browse other hunting forums and social media and what I see disgusts me, I hope I am not alone. This community has class, a rarity these days. Had to say it!

2. It is exactly the class that the members of this forum have that allowed EastTN270 assuming his age is correct at 35 years old to ask a serious question (am I a bad hunter?) and not get insulted, cyber-raped and pillaged like the other media sites regularly do, that took balls EastTN, kudos to you, kudos to the members for their responses the worst being good natured ribbing, amazing compared to elsewhere.

Those two points lead me to this. We are in a mostly silent war, hunting license sales are down pretty much across the board and to put it plainly, hunters are at risk of becoming a smaller and smaller segment of society. And the trash you see coming from so many mostly young (but not not always so) killers and their actions on media are not helping our cause. The only thing I can think of to head this off is for those of us that can to mentor other hunters when possible. I have failed at doing this more times than I can count, I don't have any children but I have a friend that has two sons, we do get to hunt together some and when we do, I take one of the sons with me and he takes the other. So if you haven't been able to do this, please consider it. I realize with all the perverts out there today you have to think long and hard about putting your reputation at stake and risk false accusations but find a way to protect yourself and take someone's else's kids hunting. Think of all the single moms that have kids that may not even realize they would love hunting. Even if they have a dad in the picture don't rule it out, here is an example...father works 6-7 days a week, mom works 40 hours a week, the son starts out with BB gun terrorizing every bird in neighborhood. Son makes friends with another young boy named Mark in neighborhood and finds out his dad Charlie takes him to a deer camp 2 hours away every fall. Son asks dad to take him hunting, dad too busy. The son gets to watch Charlie and Mark pull out of the driveway every Friday and return on Sunday full of exciting hunting stories, after a while it hurts to go thru this cycle. One day Charlie pulls into the driveway and has a hushed conversation with mom then leaves, once again this story is real, it's about me with overworked parents bordering on divorce, two days later my mom told me Charlie had asked to take me hunting and she and dad approved. I was on cloud nine with that news but mom laid down the law. I was sent to Charlie's to talk to him about hunting and that what he said was the law period, no ifs, ands, or buts. My talk with Charlie lasted a while but began with the question I gave all the wrong answers to, Charlie new I was a terror to all of the birds in the neighborhood and asked me why? Charlie told me to go home and think about why I killed the birds and come back on Monday with my answers, and If he was satisfied with ny answer he would take me hunting the following weekend, before I left he gave me two books to read. Time has erased my memory of one of the titles but one was a Leupold, pretty heady stuff for a 10 yr old. Long book but Needless to say I gave it a shot and my answer to Charlie the next Monday might not have been perfect but with enough coaching pleased Charlie enough that the hunt was on. I spent the rest of that hunting season within arms reach of Charlie absorbing like a sponge and even though we saw many I did not take a deer. On the drive back from the last hunt Charlie asked me "was my season a success", I responded with "well I didn't kill a deer" he said "but did you learn anything and most importantly was it fun". I remember to this day looking over at him behind the wheel with a broad smile and crinkled eyes cut over at me. I said "yes it was a success". He said "good we will get you one next year", it was at that point that I realized, yes I really did learn something!

Yes I had won the lottery so to speak and it was while later As I continued to hunt under Charlie's tutelage that I learned who Charlie really was. He wasn't anyone famous, but he was a true sportsman. He used to own a large sporting goods store in north Georgia that was taken by fire sadly uninsured virtually wiping the family savings out and no chance to start over in his condition and at his age. I sat for hours looking at his photo albums of the mounts in the store and of the places he had hunted.

I'll be forever grateful to that man and what he taught me. Little did I realize at the time but He molded me into a hunter instead of a killer. I'm human and There are times that I do things that with an afterthought I cringe and know he is looking down at me shaking his head, but I promise to do better.

So with that, I hope you find it in yourself to be someone's Charlie, that is what it's going to take to ensure the future of this sport. I'm sure gonna try!

Yep I'm gonna get put in tndeer jail for writing novels, but some things we are passionate about need to be said.

 

[Roost 1]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Great post... thanks for sharing.

 

[Crappieaddict]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Great story! I am currently under the tutelage of a skilled hunter, and I am at the young age of 59. Never killed a deer, never shot at a deer. I grew up in the mountains of East TN, and hunted constantly......for rabbits, squirrels, dove, grouse, and especially coons. I was addicted to coon hunting! The problem with hunting in the 70's and early 80's? Coons as well as deer were not an abundant species in East TN. I got married, raised a family, and took a 30+ year hiatus from hunting. A golf addiction was born, and went on for a long time until I lost the joy. Quit cold turkey about four years ago, bought an old boat, and began working on a fishing addiction! Returning to hunting is a natural progression, and deer hunting is my new quest. I know enough to know that I know little about this pursuit! I read.....a lot! Thankfully, a couple of guys are willing to show me the ropes. I'm like a sponge! I still haven't taken a shot, but it's coming! Thanks to all who are willing to mentor others!

 

[alaska_av8r]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I admire you guys that hunt in east TN and north GA mountains and foothills, that's some tough hunting for fewer critters than we have in these ag belts, but it is some beautiful hunting, I'd get my heiny kicked out there as out of shape as I am

 

[rmmonty32]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I admire you guys that hunt in east TN and north GA mountains and foothills, that's some tough hunting for fewer critters than we have in these ag belts, but it is some beautiful hunting, I'd get my heiny kicked out there as out of shape as I am

I wouldn't trade these east tn mountains for anything... I'm one of the lucky ones to call it home!!!

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[MUP]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I admire you guys that hunt in east TN and north GA mountains and foothills, that's some tough hunting for fewer critters than we have in these ag belts, but it is some beautiful hunting, I'd get my heiny kicked out there as out of shape as I am

I admire you guys that hunt in east TN and north GA mountains and foothills, that's some tough hunting for fewer critters than we have in these ag belts, but it is some beautiful hunting, I'd get my heiny kicked out there as out of shape as I am

I wouldn't trade these east tn mountains for anything... I'm one of the lucky ones to call it home!!!

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I'm one of the lucky ones as well! This one was from last year, and I posted about how it about killed me getting him out, and it was only about 300 yds to the truck!

 

[Crappieaddict]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Living in the mountains of East TN is all I know! Born in em and reckon I'll die in em unless Jesus comes first!

 

[eastTN270]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

Hey guys. I appreciate the comments, they are great.
First, Roost1, I don't think the corn will help. But I think I have figured out the problem. I'm not seeing mature buck because I'm not wearing FirstLite clothes. [emoji23]
I don't want to be misunderstood with my post. I am a very blessed hunter. I'm blessed to have the health, physical ability, money, property, etc. to be able to hunt. I started into this hunting adventure when I was about 19. My dad didn't hunt, I had a couple mentors from church, but mainly self taught or from reading this forum. I don't post a lot(need to more) but check the site multiple times a day. I'm extremely blessed, but also want to be a better hunter, woodsman, and sportsman.
My original post, I guess, was more along those lines of evolving as a hunter. I would like to be able to hunt mature deer, but I'm sure they are fewer and far between, especially in my area. There is a lot more I need to learn to be successful in that area.
I also would like to make a list of priorities like others have.
1. Definitely like to thank God for the blessing and ability to enjoy the outdoors. I only got to hunt a handful of times last year, and probably won't get to at all this year (due to work, family, building a house, etc.) but still am very thankful.
2. I enjoy introducing new people to the outdoors. I've been able to take a few people hunting who have never experienced it before or never killed anything, and it is priceless. This is especially true now that my 6 year old daughter is interested.
3. I try to learn, enjoy, or appreciate something every trip to the woods. I've found new terrain features that excite me for the next trip. I've photographed a barred owl from like 20 feet. I've seen a hawk catch a squirrel. Etc.
I feel like I've rambled enough. This is a great site with great people and I'm glad to be a part of it.


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[Panther Bone]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

There's some really good thoughts in this thread.

Hunting success revolves around a few simple rules. As it always has for thousands of years. Killing animals had been, until relatively recent times, an act of survival. It's a modern day matter when talking about skill. The guys who talk about whitetail hunting like it's a convoluted puzzle or chess match are just finding crafty ways to market whatever their prerogative is. That's my humble, but sure, opinion.

Survival had to be simple, or we wouldn't be here. Therefore, how complicated can hunting really be?

Watch the wind. Learn thermals. Read terrain. Scout on good days for it. Know your weapon. Know escape routes. Animals have to do three things to survive: watch out for predators (find safe havens, which is often tied to rest time)); breed; feed themselves. Learn where they do that stuff and go for it.

Super simple.

I killed a mule deer in CO this year, and a doe here at home. I let five bucks walk, and numerous does. Two of those bucks were shot by somebody else who hunts our place by just getting lucky. The bigger eight point (110") I watched walk right by me during bow season, at ten paces. I found him on a wet day, when I knew I could go scout the woods without being too loud. I found his tracks and tracked him. I was 35yds from him that day opening week of bow season, while he fed by me in hardwoods. I set up where he was traveling, and had him at ten paces on my first sit. It was lots of fun, even though I couldn't bring myself to shoot him. I've taken three shots on horned deer in eight years. I don't subsistence hunt. So, I kill a doe or two every year, and get real picky about the bucks I'll shoot. I don't take pictures, haven't had Facebook to keep everybody updated on my exploits in five years, and don't run stickers all over my vehicle.

The folks who hunt around me run corn piles, peanut butter jars, and drive their atv up to their stand sites with game cameras on them.

I'm glad I chose the path I did. I'll teach my son that killing game is a contemplative business in the world we live in. Success isn't measured by what you can see or brag about.

 

[Heath423]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

All great thoughts and comments. This is truly a great community. As stated earlier, continue to respect the land and all animals, always try to learn at least one thing on every outing, get outdoors as often as possible and always look for opportunities to mentor younger or inexperienced hunters.

 

[flyinpro]

Re: Hunter Skill Comment

I agree, I have really enjoy reading thoughtful comments on many subjects on this forum. Many good people it seems willing to help others out.

Ethics & respect for the animals and others is key.

I live in E TN as well. I have been hunting on leases the past 6 years and seem to be going no where, for various reasons so I'm looking at going back to public. Was not raised here, this is just where I finished my 25 year Army Career & married a ETN girl.

I grew up hunting & fishing in Northern Michigan, an outdoors mans paradise in comparison to ETN. If I were a local guy I might have relationships that would open up some private land. Purchasing is a good idea but that hasn't been in the cards for me. I'm not the best hunter, but as another said, I learn something every time and just enjoy being out in God's creation.




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