Hunt for records destroys hunting

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EastTNHunter

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Rhea Co., TN
Very well put. This is the reason that ethics are so important to hunting, not just the "if its legal, then do it," or the "we should not be negative toward other hunters," arguments. Some things that we believe in as hunters seem a but trifling to argue about, but many more are of far more importance to the way that we portray ourselves to the nonhunting public. This greatly effects our hunting rights, as well as land use and other privileges and respect from nonhunters. The old saying of "pride come before the fall" definitley applies here, as if we continue to hold our noses high and wait until the tide of public perception fully turns, then we will be too late turn it back.
 
Exceptional article. An excellent discussion of how trophyism is such a threat to our hunting heritage.

These words bear repeating:

"...I've never been a fan of hunting contests, big rack tournaments, "tape-measure" hunting or other similar, gratuitous hunting events. They create a horribly distorted and incredibly destructive image of what traditional, fair chase hunting and game conservation is all about.

Killing animals for fame, fortune, celebrity status, bogus awards and meaningless titles... portrays us and what we do in the worst possible light to the millions of non-hunters who have little understanding of what our legitimate purpose is or what our responsibilities to our game herds and flocks are. It's evident from the number of hunting competitions, high-dollar canned hunts and closed-fence trophy hunts these days that a lot of hunters have lost sight of it too.

Hunting isn't, nor should it be, about ego-gratification, score keeping and phony, grandiose titles. Taking a representative big buck or bull for a personal wall mount and utilizing all of the meat is a time-honored tradition, but shooting animals for cash prizes or hollow recognition and then trying to convince the rest of the world that we hold our game animals in the highest regard reeks of the same kind of hypocrisy animal-rights groups practice.
"
 
Good article and sometimes hyperbole is used to make a point. I do want to say that the P&Y Club, B&C and more recently Buckmasters Trophy Records as well as the Tennessee Deer Registry are good for hunting and have been around way before the craze of trophyism and canned hunts for TV came about. They promote fair chase and conservation and I believe have been good for hunting. Some may see this as "hollow recognition" of a trophy but I see it as recognizing the animal as much as the hunter. I don't think this is the emphasis of the article but let's be careful we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
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I agree with the article, but I wonder how some that agree with the article, that are deer hunters, would handle this
hypothetical situation.

Let's say that by some astronomical odds you kill the new world record typical buck. Would you except any monetary gain from it?
 
Very thought provoking article. While I agree with the thesis of the article in principle, the question is how to get the genie back in the bottle. We live in a culture that places a high emphasis on keeping score, winning, and recognition in virtually all aspects of life. Those values have permeated sporting pursuits to such an extent that I wonder if we can ever return to the "good old days" of pursuing game for sustenance and personal satisfaction. I suspect it will not happen.
 
RKenney said:
I agree with the article, but I wonder how some that agree with the article, that are deer hunters, would handle this
hypothetical situation.

Let's say that by some astronomical odds you kill the new world record typical buck. Would you except any monetary gain from it?

Good question.

I'll preface my answer with this - I don't intentionally hunt trophies (or even exclusively mature deer), so my odds of such an event are zero.

If I were lucky enough to kill the new world record, and someone offered me $100k or whatever for the shoulder mount, I think I'm lying to myself if I said I would turn it down.

But to me, that's different than hunting deer for the purpose of killing big bucks to make money off of. If someone is silly enough to pay me an enormous amount of money for the product of me hunting for meat for the freezer (and I get to keep the meat off my deer anyway!!!), then I don't have a problem taking his money to help my situation in life.
 
fairchaser said:
Good article and sometimes hyperbole is used to make a point. I do want to say that the P&Y Club, B&C and more recently Buckmasters Trophy Records as well as the Tennessee Deer Registry are good for hunting and have been around way before the craze of trophyism and canned hunts for TV came about. They promote fair chase and conservation and I believe have been good for hunting.

If all of these recordbooks only entered the buck's information, and NOT the hunter's, I would agree. But the drive of some hunters to get their name in the recordbooks is part of the problem. Because of that, I would list all recordbooks that glorify the hunter as being major negatives.
 
RKenney said:
Let's say that by some astronomical odds you kill the new world record typical buck. Would you except any monetary gain from it?

I wouldn't even enter it in the books.
 
Pursuit Hunter said:
Very thought provoking article. While I agree with the thesis of the article in principle, the question is how to get the genie back in the bottle. We live in a culture that places a high emphasis on keeping score, winning, and recognition in virtually all aspects of life. Those values have permeated sporting pursuits to such an extent that I wonder if we can ever return to the "good old days" of pursuing game for sustenance and personal satisfaction. I suspect it will not happen.

The only way I can think of is to remove hunting from the list of "sports." The word "sport" implies competition. Hunting should not be a competition between hunter;, only between hunter and prey.
 
I have long been a proponent of deleting the hunter's name form all record books. However, to do so would also be the death knell of the organization. Without the revenue driven by the hunter's ego, the desire to see his or her name in the record book, there be no record keep organization.

I have also long wondered,"what would be wrong with that?"
 
Ironic????

The two posts st the top of the current list are on a big deer killed and on an article decrying hunting for records.
 
So we wipe out P&Y and B&C.no one hunts for Trophy bucks and everyone only hunts for meat to control the herd. bet we would lose 1/2 the hunters or more then where would we be. We just need a little more balance between the meat hunters and the trophy hunters nationwide. I think we have a pretty good balance in TN at least based on my limited experience
 
WRbowhunter said:
So we wipe out P&Y and B&C.no one hunts for Trophy bucks and everyone only hunts for meat to control the herd. bet we would lose 1/2 the hunters or more then where would we be. We just need a little more balance between the meat hunters and the trophy hunters nationwide. I think we have a pretty good balance in TN at least based on my limited experience

Why would we lose 1/2 the hunters? I would bet half the hunters don't even know what B& C or P&Y are. There would still be the hunt for horns. It just would not be so commercial and ego driven.
 
WRbowhunter said:
So we wipe out P&Y and B&C.no one hunts for Trophy bucks and everyone only hunts for meat to control the herd.

No one is saying hunting for and challenging one's self against the best Nature can produce is a bad thing. The author even stated, "Taking a representative big buck or bull for a personal wall mount and utilizing all of the meat is a time-honored tradition. The problem is the reason so many are obsessed with killing high scoring bucks these days, and that is, "for fame, fortune, celebrity status, bogus awards and meaningless titles..." THAT is the problem. Once again, "Hunting isn't, nor should it be, about ego-gratification, score keeping and phony, grandiose titles."


bet we would lose 1/2 the hunters or more...

Bet we wouldn't. But we might lose some the worst offenders, like the TV "pro" hunters and those who idolize them.
 
Do you REALLY think removing the names and doing away with the record books would stop the drive for killing big bucks????

You must have short memories how about the FT CAMPBELL BUST???
Done of those were record book recorded
 
landman said:
Do you REALLY think removing the names and doing away with the record books would stop the drive for killing big bucks????

You must have short memories how about the FT CAMPBELL BUST???
Done of those were record book recorded

No of course I don't and I don't think anybody on this thread said that. What it stops is the ego/money driven hunting that is so bad for hunting in general. That is why to delete the names from record books will not hurt hunting, just the record keeping organizations who exist primarily through the fees paid to have animals recorded.
 
Coach said:
I have mixed emotions on this...nothing wrong with driving to the check in station with the tailgate down

No, there's not anything wrong with being proud of a kill. No one is saying that. The problem is the ego-driven world of inches of antler is all that matters.
 
BSK said:
Coach said:
I have mixed emotions on this...nothing wrong with driving to the check in station with the tailgate down

No, there's not anything wrong with being proud of a kill. No one is saying that. The problem is the ego-driven world of inches of antler is all that matters.

X2

And I feel somewhat heartened that others are now starting to see what is happening. For so long, it seemed that BSK and I were just crying in the dark. Finally, it is starting to sink in.
 
First: A big THANK YOU to Poser for posting this link.

Second: I'm trying to find out how a column from a small town newspaper in CO found its way to a deer hunting forum in TN.

Poser: Can you tell me how this link came to your attention?

Thanks again for your consideration.
Bron
 
It is all Poser does. He searches obscure websites for articles he thinks are of interest. I'm glad he does, some of them actually are of interest but he must have a very dull life.

:)
 
Ahh. The mystery is solved.
Thank you both for your speedy responses...
and everyone else for their commentary.

It's a touchy subject for sure.
 
BSK said:
If all of these recordbooks only entered the buck's information, and NOT the hunter's, I would agree. But the drive of some hunters to get their name in the recordbooks is part of the problem. Because of that, I would list all recordbooks that glorify the hunter as being major negatives.

Since those do not exist, I assume you believe they are all negative. I agree that it may be the drive of some, but why should that ruin it for everyone else? I see this as a good outweighs the bad scenario. JMO.
 
bowriter said:
Why would we lose 1/2 the hunters? I would bet half the hunters don't even know what B& C or P&Y are. There would still be the hunt for horns. It just would not be so commercial and ego driven.

Your kidding right? I've never met a deer hunter who didn't know these organizations. Unless, you are talking all hunters including small game only hunters.
 
fairchaser said:
bowriter said:
Why would we lose 1/2 the hunters? I would bet half the hunters don't even know what B& C or P&Y are. There would still be the hunt for horns. It just would not be so commercial and ego driven.

Your kidding right? I've never met a deer hunter who didn't know these organizations. Unless, you are talking all hunters including small game only hunters.

No, I am talking about deer hunters and it isn't a guess. When I was doing some 25-30 major outdoor shows a year, I often asked hunters in my seminars what B&C and P&Y stood for, I asked them how many belonged to or kept up with SCI. Keep in mind, this was before the big TV boom. Probably 30-40 percent never heard of any of them or cared.

See, once you get outside your circle of friends, life gets interesting. It might surprise you when 25,000 deer hunters come to an outdoor show, how little many of them know about things like this. I would wager that 30% of TN deer hunters, the ones who buy licenses, do not know or care that there is a TN deer registry.

You have to think outside the circle of hunters you know. Just for example, consider the million hunters in PA. How many of them do you think could tell you what P&Y stand for? Really, give that some thought.
 
bowriter said:
fairchaser said:
bowriter said:
Why would we lose 1/2 the hunters? I would bet half the hunters don't even know what B& C or P&Y are. There would still be the hunt for horns. It just would not be so commercial and ego driven.

Your kidding right? I've never met a deer hunter who didn't know these organizations. Unless, you are talking all hunters including small game only hunters.


No, I am talking about deer hunters and it isn't a guess. When I was doing some 25-30 major outdoor shows a year, I often asked hunters in my seminars what B&C and P&Y stood for, I asked them how many belonged to or kept up with SCI. Keep in mind, this was before the big TV boom. Probably 30-40 percent never heard of any of them or cared.

See, once you get outside your circle of friends, life gets interesting. It might surprise you when 25,000 deer hunters come to an outdoor show, how little many of them know about things like this. I would wager that 30% of TN deer hunters, the ones who buy licenses, do not know or care that there is a TN deer registry.

You have to think outside the circle of hunters you know. Just for example, consider the million hunters in PA. How many of them do you think could tell you what P&Y stand for? Really, give that some thought.

You may be right. People in seminars are often reluctant to say anything for fear of looking stupid. I find it very strange that people don't know these things. Then again, I don't know anyone who voted for Obama either. :) I guess my circle is pretty tight.
 

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