How Old This One?

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TheLBLman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
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Knoxville-Dover-Union City, TN


This pic is from September.
Buck is now hunter-killed, and I have his jaw bone :)

What's your guess on his age (and score if you like)?
I will post both sometime later.
Not a "trick" question, nothing weird, just a good "exercise" to test our aging/scoring skills :)

Buck is a mainframe 8-pointer,
and the tiny visible "sticker" on his left G3 is not part of the score (under an inch in length).
 
First off he's a shooter for me
Congrats to the Hunter, Bow kill?

Well he's 5.5 yr could be 6.5
And he's 138-140" not counting the sticker
 
This is definitely a mature buck. I'm gonna say 5.5+ with good potential that he's older. Buck has great tine length even though his left g2 is lacking and his brows are on the short side. Velvet pic makes his mass look better than it is even though he's a mature deer. Spread is average at roughly 16". I guess the buck at 133" and 5.5+


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Let's get a few more posts
then will post pics of the happy hunter,
the jaw bones, and the green score sheet.

So far, age estimates are between 3 1/2 to 5 1/2 (or older)
and score estimates between 129 and 140.

What say you?
 
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Ok, my main reason for posting this was to show how easy it can be to reach erroneous age/score beliefs based on single pics of a particular buck.

Similar to many of you, my guess (again, based on this single pic) was this buck was 4 1/2 or older,
and probably would gross score around 135.

Personally, I mainly use trail cam pics to sort out identifiable bucks into ones to pass, ones to consider if they present, and usually one or two to really pursue. Based on that, he went on my potential "shooter" list, but was not one I was aggressively pursuing, just that I believed I might take him if he presented.

When I got my first "live" look at him, getting to hear & see him for maybe 5 minutes up close, he offered me all kinds of good shooting opportunities.

But as he did so, I'm thinking, this is an exceptional 3 1/2-yr-old buck, in fact, it's the one from the velvet pic I had thought was 4 1/2 or older. But now, his tall rack (minus the velvet) doesn't look nearly as impressive (mainly lacking in mass). My usual criteria on "shooter" bucks is they need appear 4 1/2 or older, and have antlers I'd like to see on my wall. This one didn't pass the age test, and was allowed to walk.

The next day, I saw him again, this time he came directly under my stand, and was given a 2nd pass.
After that, I went on to hunt other areas, looking for something a little higher up on the list, while this buck was moved to the "non-shooter" side of that list. Nothing like actually seeing the buck in the field, and getting to view them from multiple angles ---- THAT totally changed my thoughts on this buck.

However, hunting over a mile from where I'd given him two passes, one morning a very tall-racked buck came trotting across an opening when I was hunting some thinned pines --- I didn't have but a couple seconds to "think" and "decide" ---- he looked 4 1/2 and had a very tall rack --- I shot him. When I walked up to him, it was the same buck I had twice passed earlier, and didn't expect to see where I was now hunting.

I consider any deer I kill a "trophy", and this one was no exception.
But I did regret not recognizing him, as I would rather have seen one of my friends get him, and/or see him live another year or two.

He was a very "fat" and healthy looking buck.
I figure great food sources contributed to his tine length, as well as contributed to his looking a little older.

Anyway, here's a kill pic from where he fell, as well as the scoresheet.
His teeth indicated he was 3 1/2, and the scoresheet totaled up to 125 2/8.
He would have scored a tad over 126 if he hadn't broken off one of his brow tines.



 
Andy S.":1rt3suex said:
Remember, teeth wear only shows a guaranteed minimum age. :tu:
Correct, and I agree with you.

But what would interest you, we were torn between 2 1/2 & 3 1/2 (teeth were "between"),
so I'm pretty confident this one was no older than 3 1/2.

And in retrospect, so much about his behavior was out of character for a 4 1/2 or older buck,
such as how much ground he was covering (like a 2 1/2) during daylight.

Main thing I was trying to illustrate was how easy it is to guess wrong from a single pic,
as most, including myself, initially thought this one would gross at least 135,
and most, including myself, believed he was 4 1/2 or older.

At the end of the day, he became another prime example of my "High Grading Theory" (now a Law) :D

Also, Andy, believe if you had those antlers in your hands, you'd think they actually "look" more like a top-end 2 1/2's rack,
except for the longer than typical tines. Knock some length off those tines, looking at a 115-class buck.
Nothing about this buck looked any older than 3 1/2 once he was on the ground ---- major ground shrinkage.
 
This is all I see where the pic should be. I do see the pic where the hunter is holding him though
65d6da4502d87c6804a9920773506c70.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Looks like the stupid "Photobucket" folks have removed my first pic, and will likely remove the rest. I've heard others talking about their doing that, but this is the first time something I linked was "removed" by them.

Glad many of you were able to view the pic before they removed it.

What's the best alternative now to "Photobucket"?

Seems "Photobucket" only wants $500 to allow me to re-post that pic :o
 
I based my guess on a buck I killed years ago. That buck looked a lot like your deer. I have mine mounted, it's still the biggest 8 I've ever killed.
 
I did that last year myself, we put the buck at 4.5yr, 140"+, when he showed up I shot him soon as I could knowing what I "was thinking" he was, he wasn't but 3.5 yr 133"

Thanks for sharing
 

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TheLBLman":16qdgikq said:
Field dressed 160 lbs.
Another factor that points to at least 3.5. In my parts, this would be more indicative of a 4.5, or a very heavy 3.5 (top 5%), but never a 2.5. With that said, we did have a very wet and mild summer, so I suspect some "pre-rut" deer weights will be a little better than average this fall.
 
TheLBLman":rxvwcuon said:
What's the best alternative now to "Photobucket"?
Imgur is what I use now. Create account, upload your images, go to the "images" pull down menu on upper right, which will have all of your uploaded images, then copy the "BBCode" link and paste into TnD post and you will be set.

https://imgur.com/
 
Wes - would like to see some pics of his teeth and score sheet. You have my personal email, or I can PM you my cell if you want to text.

Also, you should send incisor teeth in for cementum annuli aging for another opinion. It is fun to see what their analysis says, and it is not very costly ($25). If you send in now (early in season), you will probably hear back from them in 45-60 days.

http://www.deerage.com/
 
Andy S.":3voga3gi said:
TheLBLman":3voga3gi said:
Field dressed 160 lbs.
Another factor that points to at least 3.5. In my parts, this would be more indicative of a 4.5, or a very heavy 3.5 (top 5%), but never a 2.5. With that said, we did have a very wet and mild summer, so I suspect some "pre-rut" deer weights will be a little better than average this fall.
Andy,

This buck (and all those pics) were from 2013,
but he did have a smorgasbord of incredible food sources contributing to his weight (and antlers).

I agree it is less common (in Stewart Co) for 2 1/2-yr-old bucks to dress 160 lbs, but not that uncommon for 3 1/2's.
This particular buck was one of the "fattest" I've ever killed.
It is also not uncommon for very well-fed "fat" young bucks to "appear" a year older than actual,
and I believe this was part of what came into play with that single field trail-cam pic.
He did "look" 4 1/2 (or older) to most who saw that pic.

But the preponderance of evidence highly suggests the buck was a 3 1/2,
and that includes his teeth which were what you and I would call a "tweener", between 2 1/2 & 3 1/2.

Another observation worth noting is that most of us initially (just based on that one pic) considered this buck older and higher scoring, yet even if he hadn't broken off one of his brow tines, this was a 126 inch buck. By the way, many of those so labeled 140-class bucks "as seen on TV" would actually measure out under 130.

This is an example of a 125-130-class buck, which for most TN hunters, is an exceptional trophy buck. This also shows that a buck doesn't need more than 8 points to be considered a true "trophy" by most of us. In fact, this one really had only 7 scoreable points (when killed) to produce that 125 2/8, and would have scored 124 as a mainframe 6-pointer. Also, to most viewing him live in the field, had he had 10 scoreable points still adding up to 126, his antlers would have been "less" impressive (would have been an overall smaller "footprint"), or and/or "thinner" with even less mass.

Assuming he was in fact a 3 1/2, I suspect he would have grown into a 140-class 4 1/2 had he survived another year, and very likely a 150-class TN buck if he lived to 5 1/2. It's just that young "standout" bucks seldom live to 4 1/2 in TN, although I believe as more hunters are using age-based "shooter" buck criteria, more are now than were in 2013.
 
Andy S.":1u2h3axw said:
Wes - would like to see some pics of his teeth and score sheet. You have my personal email, or I can PM you my cell if you want to text.
Andy, will plan to do that, although I did previously post the score sheet in this thread.
I won't be able to look for the actual jaw bone before this evening (remember, this is a 2013 kill, and you may have already seen this jawbone in the past, as I did have several experienced agers look at it, typically without even knowing the sex of the deer, much less seeing its antlers first).

Andy S.":1u2h3axw said:
TheLBLman":1u2h3axw said:
What's the best alternative now to "Photobucket"?
Imgur is what I use now. https://imgur.com/
Another thing I need to do this evening ---- get all my photos off photobucket to Imgur.
 
docpoco":2orpl5it said:
Also, I have sent several teeth off now. Every one has come back +1 of what the tooth wear indicated.
Still, how would you know they are giving you the correct age?

I ask that in the context of having reviewed a quality control check where the King Ranch sent off a large number of known age jawbones, and these were all from deer which had been tagged as fawns --- their ages were absolutely correctly known. The lab error rate was horrific, and that's when I started questioning the merits of sending off jawbones to any lab.

I trust my own trend data more than I trust any of the labs' quality control.

docpoco":2orpl5it said:
If you recall, one deer I posted on here was 200lbs and had a 18.5 inch spread,
and I had people arguing with age ("Sorry buddy, that deer is 2.5yo").
Ended up being 4.5yo.
It would not be unprecedented in TN for a 2 1/2-yr-old buck to weigh 200 lbs and have an 18.5" spread,
just very "top-end" for both weight and spread.
Most TN bucks killed of this weight & spread have not been aged,
and I suspect more than many might think would be only 2 1/2 yrs old.

I have no idea what was the age of your buck in question :)
Other than it wouldn't surprise me if the lab was off by a year --- just no way to know.
 

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