High grading.........Im guilty

[Football Hunter]

Me and my hunting partner were riding back home Saturday,we were gonna stay longer,but my wife came down with the stomach bug,with 3 kids at the house,felt like I should head back.

Anyway,we got to talking about the buck he killed,and the 2 I have killed this year.We both agreed that all 3 should have gotten a pass,going by body structure and size.All 3 were around 120 field dressed.All 3 were 8 pts,probably around 110" .I think all 3 were 21/2.

We both thought that we weren't "ashamed" of the deer,but were really looking for better deer.I have seen several more or less the same size this year that were walking,but all 3 bucks that were shot were CHASING.Guess we got our nerves tore up,and shot.We were also hunting in pretty thick areas ,more or less a few seconds to decide on a running buck,no time for sizing them up really.

Last year ,a 139 was killed on my place,and seen several posted from the area that are bigger,so I feel like the potential is there.

I guess what Im asking is,how do you,if your sucsessful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on,and deer moving quickly?

Yes I wish I would have pulled the jaw bones.

Disclaimer: If you wanna kill any buck you see its fine with me.

 

[TheLBLman]

I think most of us are guilty of antler high-grading, just an issue of to what degree, that includes those of us trying not to be, and being very aware of the counter-productive reality that if you take out mainly the largest antlered young bucks, you are left mainly with the smallest antlered bucks becoming the "older" ones.

I guess what I'm asking is,how do you,if your successful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on, and deer moving quickly?

Most of us progress in stages, over the years. But regarding the bucks, my goal has always been to enhance the opportunity for taking more larger antlered older bucks. At issue, "larger" than what, "older" than what, and why have so many good sounding ideas been counter-productive? For example, despite our efforts, why are we (statewide) killing relatively more larger-antlered 2 1/2's (than in times past) but perhaps relatively fewer larger-antlered 4 1/2's (than in times past)?

I've yet to figure this out, but will ramble forward. :)

 

[TheLBLman]

At one time, I determined, with a goal of wanting more larger antlered older bucks, it would be better if I went to not killing any bucks younger than 2 1/2. Prior to that, I went by "antlers" instead of age, taking only bucks with 8 or more points. The problem noted was that about half the bucks I was taking were the very best 1 1/2 yr-old bucks which just happened to have those 8 points.

At about this same time I discovered the merits of antler "spread" being better than antler "point" restrictions. It seemed that a 15" spread would save far more 1 1/2-yr-old bucks than say "4 on a side" or "8 or more points". Well, in 1997, being selective wasn't too popular, after all, we did have an 11-buck limit. It was hard to shake the idea that, "Well, if I don't shoot this buck, then the guy down the ridge will."

But that's about where I was in 1997. That year, the first buck I took was a beautiful 8-pointer with a 16 1/2" outside spread. He was aged at 1 1/2 years old. The 2nd buck I took in 1997 had a net score (as a clean 8-pointer) just a tad over 125. He was aged at 2 1/2. My 3rd buck that year was a wide 8-pointer, also aged at 2 1/2. While I was "happy" with these "nice" racks, it seemed about all that was getting a pass by most hunters were the spike bucks. Many hunters felt similar.

If I remember correctly, it was the result of many hunters feeling the 11-buck limit was counterproductive to a healthy deer herd, getting the buck limit reduced to 2 annually in 1998. This major change from 11 to 2 caused many hunters to re-evaluate just what would become their new standard in a "shooter" buck. (The buck limit was raised to 3 in 1999, where it's more or less been since.) Unfortunately, I believe 1999 was the beginning of much greater problems from antler high-grading when so many hunters adopted the "3 on a side" or "4 on a side" criteria as their personal standard for a "shooter" buck. This may have resulted in a higher percentage of the largest antlered 1 1/2 and 2 1/2-yr-old bucks being killed than when we had an 11-buck limit!

I decided to mainly focus on 130-plus-class antlers and 3 1/2 yrs old or older. Problem was, an easy and common mistake was mistaking a top-end 2 1/2 with 115-class antlers for what was believed to be a 3 1/2 with 130-class antlers. Still had the high-grading problem. It should also be noted that because 2 1/2-yr-old bucks have not completed their skeletal growth, a 115-class rack may "appear" much like a 130-class rack on a larger bodied 3 1/2-yr-old buck. So by having a standard of only 3 1/2, there is great tendency to take out the very best 2 1/2's more than the targeted 3 1/2's.

At one point, I raised my personal standard to just any buck I believed to be fully mature 5 1/2 or older. That was a tough row to hoe, as despite their existence, few were seen, and most I saw seemed to have smaller antlers (due to that high-grading) than most of the 3 1/2-yr-old bucks most hunters were killing.

My current personal standard (for most of the places I hunt) is ANY 4 1/2 or older buck is a "shooter", while I consider younger bucks "non-shooters". However, I'm not shooting any buck just because he might be 4 1/2. If I don't think he has a nice rack, he still gets a pass. Largest antlered buck I've ever had a chance to harvest appeared to be at least 4 1/2, but had broken off an entire antler ---- I let him walk. That was easy, as I admit, I continue to have a significant focus on those antlers.

As long as we're humans, we will make mistakes, no matter what our standards. I can live with mistaking a 3 1/2 for a 4 1/2, just personally, at this point, would be extremely disappointed in myself for mistaking a top-end 2 1/2 for a 3 1/2. That's why my standard has become shooter bucks must be 4 1/2 or older, so that when I make a mistake, hopefully that buck will be no younger than 3 1/2. But I believe it would just be wrong to impose this personal standard of mine on a young or novice hunter. I would however like to encourage many of the more accomplished hunters to consider it.

IMO, the best way to reduce antler high-grading is to focus more on age than antlers. Of course, this is easier said than done. Just keep in mind most bucks don't approach their antler potential until they're 4 1/2 years old. To what extent we do focus on antlers, valuing "mass" more than the overly hyped B&C score may greatly reduce high-grading, as relatively few high-scoring 2 1/2 & 3 1/2-yr-olds have much "mass". But nothing short of zero hunting will eliminate hunters' antler high-grading.

 

[Winchester]

I guess what Im asking is,how do you,if your sucsessful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on,and deer moving quickly?

This can be a tough situation, many times only giving you seconds to make a decision. Obviously the more bucks you look at the better you get at quickly sizing them up. Ive learned that if I even hesitate in deciding if he's big enough, he's not!! If Im not pretty much 100% decided he's big enough right off the bat, he gets a pass. Ive messed up a few times and let some shooters get away, but have saved myself from shooting a deer that I really wasn't going to be happy with many more times!

 

[Jmed]

Its hard to do when they are running....I shot a 2.5 year old 8 that charged me when I got between him and his doe. Had I been in the stand, and had a chance to look him over good, I may have let him walk...but you shouldnt regret a kill. I was happy to punch my tag, but have let bigger bucks walk since then.

 

[TheLBLman]

This can be a tough situation, many times only giving you seconds to make a decision. Obviously the more bucks you look at the better you get at quickly sizing them up. I've learned that if I even hesitate in deciding if he's big enough, he's not!! If Im not pretty much 100% decided he's big enough right off the bat, he gets a pass. Ive messed up a few times and let some shooters get away, but have saved myself from shooting a deer that I really wasn't going to be happy with many more times!

And that my friend, is pretty much it.
We learn from our experiences, and hopefully get better with our decisions.

 

[BSK]

I guess what Im asking is,how do you,if your sucsessful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on,and deer moving quickly?

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about it, but honestly, running a season-long photo census is how I am able to identify individual bucks at first glance. I've looked at so many pictures of each buck, that I recognize each buck the instant I see him. I know his identification number. I know his estimated age and gross score. No on the spot field-judging needed.

 

[Boll Weevil]

For me the rule is "if in doubt...don't."

Yes it's rigid, inflexible and when only given a split second to make a decision, unforgivingly final. But then again it's no less final than a decision to pull the trigger on a buck that once I walked up to him, didn't meet my harvest goal or objective.

Having this happen a time or 2 was enough for me to apply the self-imposed rule and I gotta be honest...I've never 2nd guessed myself or felt "shoulda, woulda, coulda" when I let one walk like this. If anything, it's a little rewarding knowing that he could be that much bigger next year.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . running a season-long photo census is how I am able to identify individual bucks at first glance. I've looked at so many pictures of each buck, that I recognize each buck the instant I see him. I know his identification number. I know his estimated age and gross score. No on the spot field-judging needed.

I agree that this is the best strategy.
The problem I have with it is I don't get pics of all the bucks I'll ultimately see while hunting. Not to mention, I have not been able to instantly recognize all bucks for which I have pics. Yet I know of no better strategy than doing the best we can to photo inventory as many bucks as possible where we're hunting.

This season, I had a great pic of a buck I wanted to protect. First time I saw him (while hunting), I did not instantly recognize him, but did recognize he didn't have enough "mass" to meet my standards, and believed he was only 3 1/2. While watching him at close range for over 5 minutes (he worked a scrape and stood around for quite a while), I then recognized him, and truly enjoyed even more getting to pass up an outstanding young buck with relatively large antlers for his age.

Three days later, I saw what appeared to be a 4 1/2-yr-old buck (based on body profile) crossing a shooting lane. I really wasn't paying as much attention to his antlers as his body profile, but felt sure he was 4 1/2, and did note he had a very tall rack. I'd say there was about 5 seconds elapsed between the moment I saw him and the moment I pulled the trigger. It was only when I walked up to my downed deer that I discovered he was a buck on my "non-shooter" list, and the same buck I had enjoyed letting walk just 3 days earlier.

While this buck was 3 1/2, he did not meet my self-imposed standard of 4 1/2. While I didn't make the shooting decision as much on his antlers as his age, I'm sure I wouldn't have shot him had he had some diminutive antlers atop his head, thus I was guilty of high-grading. If I've learned a lesson from this experience, it's to pay even more attention to "mass", or lack thereof. More focus on "mass" (antler circumference), this one would have been an easy pass, as he had the classic lack of mass seen on most 2 1/2 to 3 1/2-yr-old bucks vs. the classic presence of mass seen on most 4 1/2 and older bucks.

More focus on pre-harvest pics, body profile, and antler "mass" are beneficial in reducing mistakes. While we generally don't go by antlers in accessing age, basal circumference is the one antler feature that correlates best with age. I like to use the buck's eyeball diameter relative to his antler diameter as a gauge. If an antler (about an inch above the hairline) is wider than the buck's eyeball, usually over 4" in circumference.

 

[BSK]

. . . . running a season-long photo census is how I am able to identify individual bucks at first glance. I've looked at so many pictures of each buck, that I recognize each buck the instant I see him. I know his identification number. I know his estimated age and gross score. No on the spot field-judging needed.

I agree that this is the best strategy.
The problem I have with it is I don't get pics of all the bucks I'll ultimately see while hunting.

Then you're doing something wrong.

HA! Just had to poke you with a sharp stick Wes! :D

 

[TheLBLman]

I don't have enough cameras! :D
And if I did, I wouldn't have any time to hunt because I'd be messing with cameras all the time.

 

[BSK]

Hey, rich-retired-guy Wes, why don't you just buy Reconyx, and then all of us can get great cameras at cost! ;)

 

[TheLBLman]

Ha! :D Ha!
Maybe because I'm too busy working and have a Covert budget.
But I think you should buy out Cuddeback, then I'll bring in Chainsaw Al to fix all their problems. :)

 

[Solo Hunter]

I think that's part of maturing into a trophy hunter. We've all at one time or more have shot a buck and then felt discouraged for doing so after we looked at it. In my case it was a bad feeling that I didn't enjoy and it made me more conscience the next time. If I'm not sure I don't shoot. I take my chance that I'll get a better look at him another day. Also if when I see him and it's no doubt he's a shooter then I'll take him. If I have to sit there and think about it then chances are he's not as good as I'd like. Another thing is with me if I let a buck walk once then no matter how many times I see him in the season I won't never shoot him that year. I see a lot of times people kill a buck they've seen before because it's the end of the season. A lot of different factors and discipline go into being a trophy hunter in my case. We all make mistakes and shoot a deer we may not be as happy with as we would of liked but that's part of learning.

 

[Marlin308]

I'm guilty of "high grading" myself - killed a 3-year old 10 pointer two years ago with tons of potential. Scored less than 120" and I felt like an idiot, cause this was one that was probably going to be a stud the next year or certainly the year after that. Ironically a trail cam photo of another buck that was much bigger (140" with a similar dark rack) convinced me it was him when I dropped my binoculars and picked up my MZ. Didn't look at the rack again as he was in a thicket and I focused on my shot to his vitals. When he ran out into the field and died I realized I had shot the wrong buck due to being impatient. Never did see the bigger buck again.

On the flip side, I watched a huge 7 pointer (130") walk right by me one morning while bow hunting because I had just got settled into my stand (I was late) and he caught me off guard. I had time to draw and shoot him but I hestitated because I wanted to make sure he was big enough. When I realized he was a shooter it was too late. Still didn't know what I missed out on until after the season when I got a bunch of trail cam pictures of him - then I got sick! He was a stud 7 pointer and at least 5 years old. Never saw him again and stopped hunting that property the next year.

So, it works both ways...thank goodness in Tennessee we get 3 strikes at a biggun.

 

[BSK]

Ha! :D Ha!
Maybe because I'm too busy working and have a Covert budget.
But I think you should buy out Cuddeback, then I'll bring in Chainsaw Al to fix all their problems. :)

Now that truly is funny!!!

 

[String Music]

I guess what Im asking is,how do you,if your sucsessful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on,and deer moving quickly?

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about it, but honestly, running a season-long photo census is how I am able to identify individual bucks at first glance. I've looked at so many pictures of each buck, that I recognize each buck the instant I see him. I know his identification number. I know his estimated age and gross score. No on the spot field-judging needed.

Nailed it. This has greatly reduced my itchy trigger finger. Spend as much time identifying non-shooter bucks as you do shooter bucks. Pay particular attention to bucks that look impressive, but need one more year. These are the bucks that usually get shot. When you decide to hunt an area, keep in mind both the shooters and non-shooters in the area.

If you want to eliminate most of the risk, only shoot bucks that you've identified as a shooter. If you don't recognize him, let him walk.

 

[Winchester]

I guess what Im asking is,how do you,if your sucsessful at holding off on average bucks,make good decisions with the rut on,and deer moving quickly?

I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about it, but honestly, running a season-long photo census is how I am able to identify individual bucks at first glance. I've looked at so many pictures of each buck, that I recognize each buck the instant I see him. I know his identification number. I know his estimated age and gross score. No on the spot field-judging needed.

Nailed it. This has greatly reduced my itchy trigger finger. Spend as much time identifying non-shooter bucks as you do shooter bucks. Pay particular attention to bucks that look impressive, but need one more year. These are the bucks that usually get shot. When you decide to hunt an area, keep in mind both the shooters and non-shooters in the area.

If you want to eliminate most of the risk, only shoot bucks that you've identified as a shooter. If you don't recognize him, let him walk.

Great system.... for those lucky enough to be able to implement it!
I hunt a lot of public land and small tracts of land here in East TN where this isn't even remotely possible. While I definitely have pics of some bucks im after, nowhere close to all the bucks that will cross said piece of ground during the season. This is only on the few private tracts I have, I don't risk cams on public land as often for fear of them being stolen. The way I hunt these days being able to quickly field judge a buck is about the only way I have of knowing if he fits my agenda!

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . being able to quickly field judge a buck is about the only way I have of knowing if he fits my agenda!

I think we should all strive for this.
It's just that no way is perfect, and we will make periodic mistakes no matter.
My personal strategy is to set my shooter buck standards maybe a tad on the high side, so that a borderline error in judgement might not be all that bad.

Spend as much time identifying non-shooter bucks as you do shooter bucks. Pay particular attention to bucks that look impressive, but need one more year. These are the bucks that usually get shot. When you decide to hunt an area, keep in mind both the shooters and non-shooters in the area.

If you want to eliminate most of the risk, only shoot bucks that you've identified as a shooter. If you don't recognize him, let him walk.

I agree with what you're doing, String Music.
My experiences have been it's much easier said than done.
With many different bucks having rut ranges covering thousands of acres, overlapping, not present year-round, but rather just during the rut ---- many of the shooter bucks seen during the rut are either not photographed at all, or their pics are only seen days and weeks after they were present.

And it's often easy to mistake one particular buck for another, and/or misjudge age by a year, which in turn often contributes to mistaking one particular buck for another. For me, it's mainly "easy" when dealing with a buck with a particularly "unique" rack.

 

[BSK]

You're right Winchester, public land hunters really can't use the camera/photo-ID method for tracking/knowing bucks.

 

[deerhunter10]

Pick up the binos first and the gun second. Is what I do sense I don't run cameras. Yes it'll get your blood up but slow down and take a good look at him. Usually I can tell by first glance if I will shoot him or not though.

 

[BSK]

Pick up the binos first and the gun second. Is what I do sense I don't run cameras. Yes it'll get your blood up but slow down and take a good look at him. Usually I can tell by first glance if I will shoot him or not though.

I wish I hunted areas where binos would be a valuable tool. But the vast majority of my buck encounters are extremely brief (just a few seconds), and occur at nearly point-blank range. That's one of the many downsides of hunting in or near thick cover.

 

[deerhunter10]

Pick up the binos first and the gun second. Is what I do sense I don't run cameras. Yes it'll get your blood up but slow down and take a good look at him. Usually I can tell by first glance if I will shoot him or not though.

I wish I hunted areas where binos would be a valuable tool. But the vast majority of my buck encounters are extremely brief (just a few seconds), and occur at nearly point-blank range. That's one of the many downsides of hunting in or near thick cover.

very true in some locations it is impossible to do that. but as stated before I usually know right when I see him I know rather is his a shooter or not. got to go with your gut in those situations.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

our rule is if you cant positively identify for sure,dont shoot

 

[Football Hunter]

Pick up the binos first and the gun second. Is what I do sense I don't run cameras. Yes it'll get your blood up but slow down and take a good look at him. Usually I can tell by first glance if I will shoot him or not though.

I wish I hunted areas where binos would be a valuable tool. But the vast majority of my buck encounters are extremely brief (just a few seconds), and occur at nearly point-blank range. That's one of the many downsides of hunting in or near thick cover.

Same for me most of the time.

 

[Football Hunter]

Went and hunted yesterday out of shooting house near a food plot,really to start working on thinning some does.First deer I saw were fawns,then a bigger deer coming.I got ready,assuming it was a doe,BUT It was an 8pt,more or less the size of the 2 I already shot this year.

He was easy to pass up,just walking and eating clover.Was really surprised to see him out early,3 pm ,in the wide open.

Anyway,then came the doe,but before I could get a good shot,something spooked all four,dont know what,but they were gone.

 

[TheLBLman]

High grading with a one buck limit is one thing, your neighbors high grading 3 1.5 year old eight points is different.

I think your point should be pondered more by all those who have seen no merit in going to a 2-buck limit from our current 3-buck limit.

Wherever there is hunting, there will be some antler high grading, simply because the vast majority of us see more trophy value in larger antlers vs. smaller antlers. But I believe the lower the buck limit, the lower the antler high grading, with an end result of the average "living" older buck having larger antlers compared to similar areas with higher buck limits.

For somewhat a comparison, take a look at the average "older" buck's antlers of the border counties along the TN-KY state line. These counties are more similar than different, yet each year more bucks are killed in the TN counties, while more larger antlered 3 1/2 and older bucks are killed in the KY counties. Again, not saying that 3 buck limit vs. lower buck limit is the only factor here, but it's certainly a significant one.

Part of my "take" with the KY vs. TN debate is that the more accomplished KY hunters have a much higher standard on their 1st buck than the comparable more accomplished TN hunters, and this is in large part because of KY's 1-buck annual limit. In other words, many of the better TN hunters average taking close to 2 bucks annually, while their KY counterparts average taking less than 1.

Meantime, some will correctly point out that the percentage of yearling bucks (of those bucks killed) taken in both states is comparable. My take is to point out that KY simply kills fewer bucks (relative to what's living/surviving), and the percentage yearlings (of those killed) is less significant than the actual number killed (relative to what's left living).

If a KY county killed 100 bucks, and 40 of them were yearlings, then 1 1/2-yr-old yearling bucks accounted for 40% of their buck harvest. If a bordering TN county killed 1,000 bucks, and 400 of them were 1 1/2-yr-old yearlings, both these counties correctly claim that yearling bucks "only" account for 40% of their buck harvests.

The bigger question becomes what percentage of the living bucks (especially those with above average antlers as yearlings and 2 1/2-yr-olds regarding high-grading) survive to maturity (4 1/2 or older)?

 

[BHC]

I'm like Wes I'm after top end 3.5 buck or better, generally I'm looking for 4,5 yr olds or better but there are 3.5's on camera I'll shoot as soon as I see them. The best rule is if you need to look at him through bino's or your scope to decide its probly a deer u should pass ( if your trying to grow big bucks). I only use binos for doe hunting and general pleasure of watching non shooters... If I don't know almost immediately it's a shooter then it's getting a pass... I've only shot one deer I wished I'd have held off on and I believe he was just a smaller 3 yr old.. But may have been a top end 2.., trail cams also allow me to know almost every deer I see especially the ones that are borderline-shooter bucks. I've seen two bucks this season that I deamed shooters one I shot and knew immediately, and the other never presented a shot, was chasing a doe but I'm semi confident I know which one he was...

Another thing is never make the decision looking at him through the scope, usually it's a lot harder to let him go then...

 

[AT Hiker]

This discussion is very interesting but after thinking about it for a minute I have determined the majority of these post are pure cockamamie management theories (unless you are lucky to have a large amount of land to manage).

For Tennessee and similar areas; High grading does happen, but controlling it is almost irrelevant. I can assume most of the hunters posting on this discussion have full control of a large amount of land. I hunt public and small farms (under 100 acres), most of the public land I hunt is uncontrolled and the mini farms are truly uncontrolled so high grading is a null and void term IMO. So what if you let the "top end" bucks walk and live to maturity, if they become basically un-killable then who cares how big there antlers are? Isnt the end product a balanced and healthy age class and herd?

For the mid west (including parts of the heavy Agriculture KY); The one buck limit greatly helps, for some reason only people from states with multiple buck limits think a one buck limit doesnt help all that much. I hunt right on the border of TN/KY in Stewart, Montgomery, and Christian Counties. The habitat is much different and so is the "trophy" class, I will admit TN has better habitat for numbers and KY has better food/soils thus bigger racks. So I dont have much of a problem with a multiple buck limit in this part of TN, but man I would love to see what a 1 buck limit would do for these counties...I have been fortunate to hunt a few large pieces of land that are controlled in Montgomery and Stewart counties...WOW is all I can say. Back to the mid west; most serious hunters who are after trophy bucks in these states are after anything 140" or better with a gun, that 140" is considered the minimum for a trophy. I honestly do not know one single TN hunter who would pass a 130", even if he was 1.5 years old (which he would likely look like a 200" on a 1.5 year old body). Even with a 1 buck limit, not many would pass that deer unless they had a good understanding of the deer in the area. Also in the mid west, the rut seems to be a little more pronounced, thus allowing those 4.5 or older deer to be seen on their feet during daylight...of course this allows a better chance to kill those deer.

My real life experience on high grading comes from hunting Mule deer in OTC units or units that have a lot of tags. Many people do not like to eat tag soup or would rather shoot a small fork horn instead of a doe, therefore the top end deer are killed many years before they reach their potential. Now move to a unit that is limited quota and the trophy potential and nice buck sightings sky rocket, to me its simple...partly better genes/food but mainly to the heavy controlled hunting. It takes many years to hunt these areas so most hunters are not going to shoot the first "good" deer they see, they are waiting for that "monster". Of course most of these hunters are a unique breed too, which is sometimes not really a good thing either.

My simple statement is; high grading free range deer does happen and if we could control it it would likely help to increase antler score, but by how much and is it worth worrying about? Would you be OK passing up a 120" 2.5/3.5 yr old to kill him the next age class up and him scoring maybe 130"...I would if it was realistic but I have a hard time believing the majority of us would stand a realistic chance of hunting that same very deer. So I am happy high grading a top end 2.5/3.5, just like I am happy high grading my timber if the prices are up and I need money at the time.

 

[deerhunter10]

I see what you're saying but for me at least I don't mind eating my tag if I think one more year can get that deer to reach his potential then I will if he gets killed he gets killed atleast I tried if I ever see a 1.5 130 class deer your right very few people would pass him I know I wouldn't because he would truly look like a moose coming through the woods. but im not going to lower my standards throughout the season. I have the same mind set from day one of season til the last day. we have some decently big farms but not crazy big we have a 300, 150, and a 50 and its the same standard on all of those. do I pass up deer and never see them again? absolutely but that's part of the sport of being a trophy hunter. if I wanted to shoot small deer I would be tagged out the first three days of season. I don't have fun that way I love the cat and mouse game and trying to get the deer to its full potential. im by no means perfect and I have shot 3.5 year old deer and im ok with it the hunt was awesome and I was happy with the deer. i will atleast try to get the deer as old as possible it may be worthless but i like it. i know some people like bsk and bowriter for example have gotten burned out on trying to hunt those 4.5 and 5.5 year old deer and eventually i may get like that but as of now it is what floats my boat and i will continue to do so. if i hunted public land then i wouldn't be as picky probably but i don't ever see that happening at least i hope not.