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JAY B

JAY B

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Meigs Co.
100 yards from my house ! Didn't stand a chance!
 

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TheLBLman said:
We all agree.

That said, seeing a coyote carrying a fawn does not mean said coyote actually killed the fawn. A certain percentage of fawns just die, and coyotes scavenge them.
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You are right about coyotes Scavenging fawns that have died. But in this photo that fawn appears to be still limp as though it has not been dead for any length of time.
 
Gravey said:
Nature is cruel and although I'll shoot every coyote I can it's the circle of life.
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ImThere said:
I shoot every one I see but I am curious what it would look like without coyotes out there in the circle of life?
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I'm wondering how much coyotes are actually aiding us in controlling the deer population. When the deer population exploded in the early 2000s, it happened fast. Real fast. However, hunters today are not killing that many does, yet the population doesn't seem to be exploding like it did in the 2000s. I suspect coyotes are playing a role. Back in the early 2000s, it was common to see fawn recruitment rates of 100 to 120%. Now I see fawn recruitment rates MUCH lower than that (25 to 50%). Coyotes? Perhaps.
 
BSK said:
I'm wondering how much coyotes are actually aiding us in controlling the deer population. When the deer population exploded in the early 2000s, it happened fast. Real fast. However, hunters today are not killing that many does, yet the population doesn't seem to be exploding like it did in the 2000s. I suspect coyotes are playing a role. Back in the early 2000s, it was common to see fawn recruitment rates of 100 to 120%. Now I see fawn recruitment rates MUCH lower than that (25 to 50%). Coyotes? Perhaps.
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It's a situation of our own making. But you're correct. Coyotes are filling a predatory niche that we're largely neglecting. Without predators deer population would explode to disastrous numbers, as would other game species. Our pioneers killed off wolves & cats & even bears in many areas, but they hunted game enough to keep populations in check. Now days we don't and we no longer have the predator base to do it for us. If coyotes weren't filling that niche, imagine how much worse CWD & EHD would be.
 
BSK said:
Back in the early 2000s, it was common to see fawn recruitment rates of 100 to 120%. Now I see fawn recruitment rates MUCH lower than that (25 to 50%). Coyotes? Perhaps.
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I'm wondering if the combination of bobcats & household dogs aren't killing more fawns than coyotes?

Has anyone else noticed how deer seem more afraid of bobcats than coyotes?

I've also many times seen deer feed as a coyote walks by, and the deer don't run, just keep an eye on ole Wiley. But let a dog enter the picture, the deer take off running. Of course, said dog is usually chasing the deer while Wiley is walking by looking for an easy meal.
 
TheLBLman said:
I'm wondering if the combination of bobcats & household dogs aren't killing more fawns than coyotes?

Has anyone else noticed how deer seem more afraid of bobcats than coyotes?

I've also many times seen deer feed as a coyote walks by, and the deer don't run, just keep an eye on ole Wiley. But let a dog enter the picture, the deer take off running. Of course, said dog is usually chasing the deer while Wiley is walking by looking for an easy meal.
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I don't think bobcat take many deer at all. However, domestic dogs probably kill more fawns than coyotes do.
 
BSK said:
I don't think bobcat take many deer at all.
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I used to think that, but then started wondering just why do older female deer in particular seem more afraid of a bobcat than a coyote?

It may be that we just don't see bobcats carrying around a fawn like we do coyotes.
Perhaps bobcats eat fawns more where killed (or found) while coyotes have a greater tendency to walk off with their meal?

This past deer season, during November, I had hunting buddies twice see a very large bobcat chasing an adult buck, and those bucks were giving it all they had to escape. Can't say I've ever seen a bobcat flat out after an adult buck like that.
 
Having traps set in front of cell cams is a great way to start learning how to get rid of coyotes. I watched a first time trapper kill 8 on his place last year. Coyote slaying can be done once you get the hang of it.
 
TheLBLman said:
I used to think that, but then started wondering just why do older female deer in particular seem more afraid of a bobcat than a coyote?

It may be that we just don't see bobcats carrying around a fawn like we do coyotes.
Perhaps bobcats eat fawns more where killed (or found) while coyotes have a greater tendency to walk off with their meal?

This past deer season, during November, I had hunting buddies twice see a very large bobcat chasing an adult buck, and those bucks were giving it all they had to escape. Can't say I've ever seen a bobcat flat out after an adult buck like that.
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Of course, all findings in studies will be local, but the studies I've seen of bobcat scat find little deer in their poop. However, during June, often 100% of coyote scat is deer (fawn).
 
BSK said:
Of course, all findings in studies will be local, but the studies I've seen of bobcat scat find little deer in their poop. However, during June, often 100% of coyote scat is deer (fawn).
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Big question I have is how much of the coyote fawn consumption is scavenged as opposed to the coyote actually killing the fawn?

There are lots of reasons a fawn may die other than being killed by a coyote. One is being born dead, or simply dying soon after birth. Even a copperhead snake bite would likely kill a fawn?

I also have a theory that coyotes have learned to find carrion by seeing & hearing (if not smelling) where buzzards are landing on the ground. Also believe it is sometimes buzzards that actual kill the fawn, like they sometimes do with a calf.

Ever notice how a rifle shot in late November will often be the best coyote call around? Ole Wiley is very good at putting two & two together, and would rather scavenge than work harder to kill something himself?
 
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