Good article on 1-buck harvest rules

[Ski]

Well unless you been hiding under a rock or live in another state they were unable to stop the baiting law also unable to stop areas from being shut down to hunting due to political power, they also let the buck limit get dropped to 2, most of the WMA are no longer bonus bucks. Even though the biologists declared 3 bucks did no harm and that the herd was in good shape. They don't make the regulations only follow through with that the $$ sez through the politicians. It's all about the $$ these days. Folks trying to manipulate small tracks of land in the hopes of creating Big horns good luck and keep at it if it makes you feel better, unless there is a fence around the property it's not going to work unless everybody within a large distance is doing the same thing and not shooting deer.

Hey I'm just responding. Managing our wildlife resources is the TWRA's purpose, is it not?

 

[BSK]

You have stated many times bucks don't live on your property for the most part they are in the ag fields in the bottom, they range shift during the rut, big difference imo.

But who controls their survival during hunting season, when hunting mortality is the primary form of mortality in deer?

I've managed properties of all sizes from Michigan to Maine to South TX to the Florida Everglades. You absolutely CAN strongly influence herd health on smaller properties, if you do it right.

 

[mike243]

Well my thoughts are how much of their food source comes from plots? the old saying about kids, takes 2 to make a baby but a village to raise them. Anything you do helps them but on a percentage scale how much food do they eat from plots and is it closer to taking a vitamin every day or eating a apple and expecting a lot more benefits?. At certain times plots are doe magnets and will draw in bucks of all ages at certain times, makes it easier to count and shoot at times, not sure plots were ever looked at as something to sustain deer through different times of the year by most hunters rather than a draw. Most farms here are small and invest in hay for cattle, some grow corn but it's not much, lots to 30ac are pretty common for the most part around here. other parts of the state have a lot of Ag that can benefit deer , you having 500ac is a good amount but the ridges and hollows makes it tough to put enough acreage into make a big difference I would guess. I have nothing against planting for wildlife but I do have reasonable thoughts on the benefits vs cost of them.

 

[BSK]

Well my thoughts are how much of their food source comes from plots? the old saying about kids, takes 2 to make a baby but a village to raise them. Anything you do helps them but on a percentage scale how much food do they eat from plots and is it closer to taking a vitamin every day or eating a apple and expecting a lot more benefits?. At certain times plots are doe magnets and will draw in bucks of all ages at certain times, makes it easier to count and shoot at times, not sure plots were ever looked at as something to sustain deer through different times of the year by most hunters rather than a draw. Most farms here are small and invest in hay for cattle, some grow corn but it's not much, lots to 30ac are pretty common for the most part around here. other parts of the state have a lot of Ag that can benefit deer , you having 500ac is a good amount but the ridges and hollows makes it tough to put enough acreage into make a big difference I would guess. I have nothing against planting for wildlife but I do have reasonable thoughts on the benefits vs cost of them.

If you are relying on food plots to sustain deer, you are barking up the wrong tree. Unless they are living in an agricultural setting, deer get the vast majority of their nutrition from the natural habitat. Even in a heavy ag area, less than 50% of their daily intake is agricultural plants. Most of their daily nutrition comes from the weeds growing around the edges of the fields. And that's why habitat management - not food plots - is so critical in private land management. Through habitat management, I've seen properties transformed from an environment that will support 5-6 deer per square mile to an environment that would support 120 deer per square mile. No food plots. By producing that much volume of food, but holding the population well below carrying capacity, each deer will have a higher percentage of the diet as the top-choice and most nutritious natural foods. In this scenario, herd health improvements are usually quite dramatic.

 

[MickThompson]

Well my thoughts are how much of their food source comes from plots? the old saying about kids, takes 2 to make a baby but a village to raise them. Anything you do helps them but on a percentage scale how much food do they eat from plots and is it closer to taking a vitamin every day or eating an apple and expecting a lot more benefits?. At certain times plots are doe magnets and will draw in bucks of all ages at certain times, makes it easier to count and shoot at times, not sure plots were ever looked at as something to sustain deer through different times of the year by most hunters rather than a draw. Most farms here are small and invest in hay for cattle, some grow corn but it's not much, lots to 30ac are pretty common for the most part around here. other parts of the state have a lot of Ag that can benefit deer , you having 500ac is a good amount but the ridges and hollows makes it tough to put enough acreage into make a big difference I would guess. I have nothing against planting for wildlife but I do have reasonable thoughts on the benefits vs cost of them.

Harvested corn is the single most overrated source of nutrition for deer. A really good field may yield 7500 lbs per acre or more but there's usually less than 100 lbs of that is missed by the combine. It sound like a lot until you spread it across an acre and it rots, sprouts, or gets eaten immediately. By the time it's needed, it's long gone.

I can make 10x the difference by 1) fencing cows out of the woods, and 2) managing those woods with thinning and prescribed fire.

 

[BSK]

Harvested corn is the single most overrated source of nutrition for deer. A really good field may yield 7500 lbs per acre or more but there's usually less than 100 lbs of that is missed by the combine. It sound like a lot until you spread it across an acre and it rots, sprouts, or gets eaten immediately. By the time it's needed, it's long gone.

I can make 10x the difference by 1) fencing cows out of the woods, and 2) managing those woods with thinning and prescribed fire.

THIS!

 

[Antler Daddy]

Harvested corn is the single most overrated source of nutrition for deer. A really good field may yield 7500 lbs per acre or more but there's usually less than 100 lbs of that is missed by the combine. It sound like a lot until you spread it across an acre and it rots, sprouts, or gets eaten immediately. By the time it's needed, it's long gone.

I can make 10x the difference by 1) fencing cows out of the woods, and 2) managing those woods with thinning and prescribed fire.

Cows destroyed about 20 acres of woods that I grew up hunting. Dad sold the cows and leased our farm and grandads but did not fence out the woods. They eat everything growing, including the oak seed trees, and keep deer away. Place looked as barren as uncut timber at Laurel Hill WMA.

Now, we select cut it 3 years ago and cows are gone....deer everywhere.

 

[BSK]

Cows destroyed about 20 acres of woods that I grew up hunting. Dad sold the cows and leased our farm and grandads but did not fence out the woods. They eat everything growing, including the oak seed trees, and keep deer away. Place looked as barren as uncut timber at Laurel Hill WMA.

Now, we select cut it 3 years ago and cows are gone....deer everywhere.

Many will disagree with this, but as a professional manager of deer, I can tell you without question deer and cattle don't mix. Deer are selective browsers, picking out the highest nutritional content and most digestible foods. Cows eat everything. Everything.

 

[TheLBLman]

If you are relying on food plots to sustain deer, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Food plots may be more about aesthetics to hunters than benefit to wildlife.

Even in a heavy ag area, less than 50% of their daily intake is agricultural plants. Most of their daily nutrition comes from the weeds growing around the edges of the fields.

Would be an understatement to say hunters generally have been over-sold on the merits of cultivated food plots for deer.

Having most my private deer-hunting acreage in an area with little agricultural crops, I thought cultivated food plots would be of great value. After decades of doing this, I believe my time & money is generally better rewarded using it to manipulate native habitat, rather than planting things.

I'm not opposed to food plots, still have some. But it is amazing to watch deer walk around a lush clover plot picking out the native ragweed (yes, weeds in my plots), seeming to prefer the ragweed over the clover. Similar is seen with the honeysuckle that is now growing all over the place, in that the deer seem to spend more time eating the honeysuckle than the oat/wheat food plots.

I know many hunter-managers have gone to extreme expense & time to rid their properties of native weeds & honeysuckle, and now believe much of that has been a mistake. Johnson grass is NOT a native weed! Round that up! And fescue is the scourge of the earth. Good weeds are "forbs" (flowering plants), not "grasses" like fescue.

Ragweed protein content typically ranges from 15% to 22% in its pre-flowering stage, making it a surprisingly potent source of crude protein that rivals high-quality alfalfa.

And that's why habitat management - not food plots - is so critical in private land management. Through habitat management, I've seen properties transformed from an environment that will support 5-6 deer per square mile to an environment that would support 120 deer per square mile. No food plots.

Put another way, 10 acres of manipulated native habitat can often produce more year-round deer food than a 1-acre cultivated food plot. "Manipulations" include most any tasks to help more sunlight hit the ground (chainsaw is your friend), mowing, disking mowed areas, prescribed fire, reducing grasses (like johnson grass & fescue).

And, no, I'm not opposed to food plots, just saying they've been over-rated by marketers selling food-plot related products, which includes tractors, atvs, other equipment, expensive seed & other gimmicks.

 

[BSK]

Great post TheLBLman.

I have food plots on my property. I spend an inordinate amount of time and money on them. However, they are not for "feeding" the deer. They are an attractant to draw deer to the property at all times of the year, but especially during hunting season. It is the 25% of my property I've converted from mature hardwoods to early-stage regrowth that is feeding the deer, as well as providing them with cover habitat, which is a massive attractant during hunting season.

 

[megalomaniac]

Put another way, 10 acres of manipulated native habitat can often produce more year-round deer food than a 1-acre cultivated food plot. "Manipulations" include most any tasks to help more sunlight hit the ground (chainsaw is your friend), mowing, disking mowed areas, prescribed fire, reducing grasses (like johnson grass & fescue

Im a HUGE manager of native browse as a food source, mostly because im cheap as hell.

While I can produce incredible forage April thru October, native browse is dormant in winter and provides no nutritional benefit... THATs where the food plots shine. My deer just dont lose that much weight by January. Does are fat as hell, bucks are stressed from not eating during rut, but if they get stressed enough to drop testosterone levels, they can get back on high quality feed and recover before next season.

Its getting common to kill 200lb bucks on my place, and we dont bat an eye unless they are over 225lbs...

THATS what YEAR ROUND food does for the herd.

 

[BSK]

Well said Mega.

 

[hammer33]

Im finding a lot of videos that are negative towards fescue as pasture grass for grazing livestock. 10 yrs ago, fescue was the greatest, now its becoming unpopular on smaller acreage farms.
On our sheep farm, Im very interested in creating more diverse pastures with better year round grazing plant mix that can tolerate grazing pressure.

My last experiment was to overseed a lambing pen that was overgrazed to the point that 25% was bare dirt. Overseeded in May with a mix of clover, hairy vetch, Sudan sorghum, cow peas, and some daikon radish thrown in. Radish did nothing. Vetch, cow peas, sorghum did great, and clover did a little.
Upon putting the sheep in last week, they selectively ate the Vetch and peas first and wiped out that 1/4 acre plot in about 3 hours. The next grazing rotation they focused on clover and a bit of the sorghum next. Now they aren't interested in the plot as it is just a mix of grasses, including tall fescue, johnson grass, crab grass, and smaller % mix of 10 different grass types. It also has a varied mix of natural forbs like short and long leaf plantain, a little dandelion, etc...
I realize that Sheep do not = deer preferences, BUT I think it is a good general indication of what is candy and what is not.

 

[megalomaniac]

Im finding a lot of videos that are negative towards fescue as pasture grass for grazing livestock. 10 yrs ago, fescue was the greatest, now its becoming unpopular on smaller acreage farms.
On our sheep farm, Im very interested in creating more diverse pastures with better year round grazing plant mix that can tolerate grazing pressure.

My last experiment was to overseed a lambing pen that was overgrazed to the point that 25% was bare dirt. Overseeded in May with a mix of clover, hairy vetch, Sudan sorghum, cow peas, and some daikon radish thrown in. Radish did nothing. Vetch, cow peas, sorghum did great, and clover did a little.
Upon putting the sheep in last week, they selectively ate the Vetch and peas first and wiped out that 1/4 acre plot in about 3 hours. The next grazing rotation they focused on clover and a bit of the sorghum next. Now they aren't interested in the plot as it is just a mix of grasses, including tall fescue, johnson grass, crab grass, and smaller % mix of 10 different grass types. It also has a varied mix of natural forbs like short and long leaf plantain, a little dandelion, etc...
I realize that Sheep do not = deer preferences, BUT I think it is a good general indication of what is candy and what is not.

Fescue is terrible for most game.... It's great for cattle, but nothing else. Deer cannot even digest it.

The main problem with overseeding other stuff into the fescue (clover, etc) is that it makes it very difficult to keep the fescue pasture relatively weed free... and we are talking about the BAD weeds (pigweed, marestail, etc) as well as woody growth (like cedars, hackberry, bodock) that often arise in cow pastures where they are fed over winter. The herbicides required to keep those bad weeds in check without killing the fescue make it almost impossible to overseed anything else)

I've tried and tried to make fescue pastures beneficial to wildlife, but it's cost prohibitive. Cheaper to sacrifice a few acres of pasture, fence out the cows, and make dedicated small acerages/ plots specifically for wildlife.

 

[Griswold]

I took partial pastures and fenced out the cows, sprayed em, burned it and let the nature seed bank emerge and you cant beat the deer and turkeys out of it. Come end of September i over seed with winter wheat and repeat the next year

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . let the nature seed bank emerge . . . . .

Amazing what can linger for decades, maybe centuries, in Nature's Seed Bank.

I've been amazed at the ragweed fields that can be produced by just mowing & disking. This in areas mostly previously void of fescue & Johnson grass, which would be most of TN before it was "introduced". Fescue really messed things up for wildlife.