Free Float or not? ....UPDATE

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GOODWIN

GOODWIN

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Got a Bell and Carlson Alaskan II stock for my CDL 700. Its got the full length aluminum bedding block. I figured it would allow the barrel to free float but I thought wrong. It has the pressure pads on the front of the forend like most 700's that puts upward pressure on the barrel. Should I go ahead and file these out or shoot and see how it does first. With the sporter contour barrel heating so fast I figured it could really affect my accuracy at the range. I think I will go ahead and glass bed at the very least around the recoil lug. I know a few guys on here are fans of the stock....what have y'all done?
 
Re: Free Float or not?

My experience has been that full length bedding blocks sometimes work ok for low recoil rifles but not for heavy recoil ones. Also, be careful with action screw torque. Those full length bedding blocks can put stress on your action, causing trigger issues among others. If you do decide to skim bed, DO NOT tighten the action screws. ONLY use them for alignment. In other words, leave them loose during the bedding process. Use electrical or masking tape on the barrel to center it in the barrel channel. Use surgical tubing or other similar material to wrap around the action and stock to hold the assembly in place while the bedding sets. OH, and don't forget to put plenty of shoe polish on your action or you will have a permanently bedded together gun.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

jlanecr500":1l9ekcwk said:
My experience has been that full length bedding blocks sometimes work ok for low recoil rifles but not for heavy recoil ones. Also, be careful with action screw torque. Those full length bedding blocks can put stress on your action, causing trigger issues among others. If you do decide to skim bed, DO NOT tighten the action screws. ONLY use them for alignment. In other words, leave them loose during the bedding process. Use electrical or masking tape on the barrel to center it in the barrel channel. Use surgical tubing or other similar material to wrap around the action and stock to hold the assembly in place while the bedding sets. OH, and don't forget to put plenty of shoe polish on your action or you will have a permanently bedded together gun.
Click to expand...

I've never had a issue with snugging up my action screws when bedding. What problem could that cause?
 
Re: Free Float or not?

There is nothing that will add as much accuracy potential with as small a cost as a good bedding job except maybe a trigger job.

If it was me and it was a hunting rifle, I'd shoot it first though. The fact is it just ain't to hard to shoot minute-of-deer with current production rifles. If you can shoot a consistent 1" group off the bench, it's plenty good enough.

But if you want it to be as good as it can be, get it bedded correctly.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

GOODWIN":u2ey1am7 said:
jlanecr500":u2ey1am7 said:
My experience has been that full length bedding blocks sometimes work ok for low recoil rifles but not for heavy recoil ones. Also, be careful with action screw torque. Those full length bedding blocks can put stress on your action, causing trigger issues among others. If you do decide to skim bed, DO NOT tighten the action screws. ONLY use them for alignment. In other words, leave them loose during the bedding process. Use electrical or masking tape on the barrel to center it in the barrel channel. Use surgical tubing or other similar material to wrap around the action and stock to hold the assembly in place while the bedding sets. OH, and don't forget to put plenty of shoe polish on your action or you will have a permanently bedded together gun.
Click to expand...

I've never had a issue with snugging up my action screws when bedding. What problem could that cause?
Click to expand...

With a wooden or bedding block stock, if there is a high spot anywhere that puts pressure on the action, it will introduce stress in the action that will carry over even after bedding. The reason for bedding in the first place is to reduce stress.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

jlanecr500":1bw6mcmb said:
My experience has been that full length bedding blocks sometimes work ok for low recoil rifles but not for heavy recoil ones. Also, be careful with action screw torque. Those full length bedding blocks can put stress on your action, causing trigger issues among others. If you do decide to skim bed, DO NOT tighten the action screws. ONLY use them for alignment. In other words, leave them loose during the bedding process. Use electrical or masking tape on the barrel to center it in the barrel channel. Use surgical tubing or other similar material to wrap around the action and stock to hold the assembly in place while the bedding sets. OH, and don't forget to put plenty of shoe polish on your action or you will have a permanently bedded together gun.
Click to expand...


Excellent advise, follow it to the letter. NEVER tighten an action in the fresh bedding.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Thanks guys. I've bedded a few rifles with good success. I guess the real question here is about the pressure points at the end of the stock that put upward pressure on the barrel. Remington has been doing this for years to most of the 700s. I was just surprised that an aftermarket stock would be designed this way as well. Guess they think consistent pressure in one spot on the barrel will help accuracy. Just wanted to get some thoughts especially from 700 owners who've dealt with this...ie better accuracy before or after removal of pressure points on barrel. I want the best accuracy out of all my guns. I'm only satisfied with min of deer with my iron sighted levers. Guess I'll start up the dremel and get the sandpaper out.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

I glass bedded my 700 CDL stainless before even test firing it. Probably not smart as there is nothing to lose by seeing how well it will shoot right out of the box. Anyhow, mine had the pad contacting the barrel and when I glass bedded it, I decided to bed the entire action but leave the pad touching the barrel. Plan was to remove the pad if it shot erratically when the barrel got hot. Since I did not shoot the rifle prior to bedding, I have no idea what - if anything - I gain with my bedding job but I do know that the barrel contact pad isn't doing any major harm as the rifle will consistently shoot .6moa with 2 different loads with the stock forearm still contacting the barrel. It still sort of bothers me though as before I had always free floated everything.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Could be better steel in the 700 CDL Stainless.

I free floated a 270 ADL and it went from so-so to pretty good accuracy. Just about every rifle I purchase I free float before firing.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Ok right now I think my plan is to do like Hunter. Going to bed the action, leave the pressure bump/pads whatever it's called, and shoot and see. Not going to waste much time or money like this if the accuracy is not there. If it's bad I'll shave off the pads and free float. I've been reading mixed views on some different forums about this. Some guns like the barrel pressure some don't. Only one way to find out. I do like the stock though. Mounted a zeiss conquest 3-9x40. May be in contention with my 7mag for elk gun this year. We will see. Plan to see if it'll shoot the 165 gameking or the 180s.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

I normally bed the action and free float a model 700. But I restocked a .270 that was floated in a synthetic, back to a wood stock, just because of the beautiful walnut it had. It was a redone factory Rem stock with the pressure point still intact. The gun went from a 1 1/2 moa to just over 1/2 moa , with the same load. So that incident kinda changed my thinking somewhat.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

You guys figure the pressure point is a kind of harmonic neutralizer? Like a BOSS?

And wouldn't the pressure point over time exert less pressure, negating the advantage and allowing barrel harmonics to come more into play? Same for different weight bullets & max load, factory load, low-recoil loads?

When I change loads in my 300 WinMag with BOSS I read the cheat sheet and that gets me into a window of accuracy. Then small adjustments bring that window into sharper and sharper focus until you achieve the perfect cancellation point for the harmonics and your group is sub-moa. Same principle used by the Limbsaver Xring, and Cabelas De-Resonator. I think.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Dave, I'm sure it works something like a BOSS except that, as you point out, it's not adjustable at all. I wouldn't think it would change the force on the barrel with time but no doubt it changes with temperature and humidity for a wood stock. Well sealed wood should reduce that. On things like this I sometimes accept it like the old Chrysler 426 Hemi ads that explained how their engines made so much power by stating "It's VooDoo Baby!". :) My 700 CDL has sure been a consistent rifle with that pressure intact. Maybe it would shoot even better without it, but I think .6" groups @ 100 yards is about all you can reasonably expect from a factory sporter barrel. I might faint dead away if I got significantly better. :)
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Yes, I am confident Remington did not just leave some wood up front and call it a pressure point and walk away. I wonder if the pressure point varies in size or height by caliber? Hmm. I have an old 243 wood stock, nice piece of wood, lemme look and see.
 
Re: Free Float or not?

Update...

Loaded some with a 165 gr Gameking spitzer and IMR4350 and fed 210M. Best I could get was 1.25" 3 shot group at 100yds. Not pleased. This gun just didn't like the loads. Gave my last 3 to my dad to shoot in his 700 30-06 (we had previously free-floated his barrel and glass bedded the action) and he shot them into a 0.375" hole. :bash: So out came my dremel tool and bedding junk. I ran out of the Acraglas gel I was using just recently and had been reading about JB weld as a bedding epoxy. Seemed a lot of guys liked it and it is actually stronger than some. I also read where some had used vasoline as a release agent...mistake! Had a hell of a time getting the barreled action out of the stock. Had to use multiple tools and steel wool to get some off the action and seems it had reacted with the epoxy making it bubble in places. ended up redoing most of it but using some other release agent I had that came with the acraglas gel and it did the trick. Not my best looking job but it is rock solid. Even did the action screw holes in the stock so there is absolutely no wiggle room. Got the screws torqued down to 50lbs now. I also dremeled out the front bumps on the forearm to free float the barrel as you can see in the before and after pics. Fingers crossed this makes a difference.

Think I'm going to load some with the 180gr Gameking. When I seated the 165s to where I thought would be the minimum in the neck they were way off the lands. I'd like to get closer as most of my rifles have preferred this. And the heavier bullet may be better for elk come October. Will report back after I make another range trip. Overall I really like the slim design of this stock and I think it looks great.

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Looks good to me and that is something I have always wanted to learn to do but haven't been adventurous enough to try my hand at bedding on a stock. I have read where guys had to put the stocks in freezers to get it to release. Keep us posted.
 
I cant tell in pic but make sure bedding isnt touchin the front side of the recoil lug,,

I always had good luck with the 165 Game King BTHP with long throated 308 and 30-06`s,,they are really tough and probably the best 30 cal deer bullet Sierra makes,,I always had good luck with 4064 in 150-165 gr 06 loads also,,
 
mr.big":3j975mh1 said:
I cant tell in pic but make sure bedding isnt touchin the front side of the recoil lug,,

I always had good luck with the 165 Game King BTHP with long throated 308 and 30-06`s,,they are really tough and probably the best 30 cal deer bullet Sierra makes,,I always had good luck with 4064 in 150-165 gr 06 loads also,,
Click to expand...

Thanks. Is that just to allow for expansion when metal heats up?
 
Everything I'm reading saying put tape on front sides and bottom of lug. On the front just to make it easier to slide action in and out. And bottom so you ensure you are tightening action down and not just "pivoting" on bottom of lug. I've taped the lug before on another 700 but didn't this time. Actually just forgot all about doing that. It's snug but will slide in and out fairly easy with a little wiggle.
 
I've bedded 2 rifles with 3 stocks. All were savages so I'm not so sure about the differences with the 700. My 243 had a wood stock and I bought a youth stock. One of the stocks I bedded the whole thing. The other stock I just done the recoil lug. I think on the one with the full bedding job I didn't pay attention and got the action a little crooked. Didn't notice it for a long time lol. My 308 has a synthetic stock and it turned out horrible. Eventually I'll redo it but it still shoots good.


Big or small, kill em all
 
Shot this .3" group today with the 180s. Fluke? I think so. +/- .5gr at same seating depth was an inch and quarter at best. And only 3 shots. Never seen an accuracy "node" that drastically different inside 1gr difference in powder. What say you? But just for the heck of it I'll rinse and repeat.
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Wish I'd had the chrono today. Would have given me a little better idea of what was going on. Plan to load +/- .2 gr centered around this group's charge and at the same seating depth. Will see...
 
I'd say the .3" group is a fluke if you got 1.25" groups with only 1/2grain more and less powder and no other variations. As you said, it's hard to imagine accuracy being that sensitive to such a small powder charge difference. Still, it bears repeating to see what happens.

This reminds me of a friend of mine who has a Winchester model 70 heavy barrel in 25WSSM that we glass-bedded. It never did shoot worth a hoot before or after bedding. It commonly gave groups as large as 3 or more inches. He just put it back in the safe and quit fooling with it. I'd like to experiment with it some more and would if it were mine. Anyhow, your rifle seems nowhere near as troublesome as that. I think you'll hit on a good load if you keep fooling with it.
 

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