Fouled vs clean barrel

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NChunt1

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I have a gun I sighted in with black horn 209 but didn't swab between shots, probably shot about 5 or 6 times but got it dialed. Was thinking about cleaning the gun especially the breach plug. How much would a clean barrel effect zero compared to a fouled barrel that it was sighted in with?
 
NChunt1 said:
I have a gun I sighted in with black horn 209 but didn't swab between shots, probably shot about 5 or 6 times but got it dialed. Was thinking about cleaning the gun especially the breach plug. How much would a clean barrel effect zero compared to a fouled barrel that it was sighted in with?
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Need to shoot it again to verify and find out. No one can say for certain how that will affect yours, only what they've seen with theirs.
 
You need to clean completely and fire one more shot.

I learned this the hard way.

I had my gun shooting great groups after 5 shots to get it on paper and zeroed. Cleaned it up and put it away.

The next season I took it out to shoot it and my first shot was 5in low. Second shot crept higher and then shots 3-5 were touching each other right where I had thought they should have been all along.

I cleaned the gun and shot it again and it was 5in low.

I was not happy with this knowing sometimes you have to shoot more than once in the woods.

Different sabots solved my problem and now the gun shoots the same place whether it's clean or dirty.
 
Some ML's shoot more accurately with a fouled barrel while others shoot well either way. I have a Knight ML that shoots great clean or fouled, but I also have a CVA Kodiak Magnum that likes a slightly fouled barrel, and by that I mean I have to at least pop a couple of primers off thru it to lightly smoke the rifling, or it'll be off on a perfectly clean barrel shot. I have no problem fouling a barrel to hunt a couple weeks with, and if I hunted bad weather I'd just shoot that shot out before coming home and load with dry powder before heading back out. Blackhorn is much easier to do this way b/c it's not quite as corrosive as other BP subs, but I've done the same with Pyrodex for years as well.
 
Mine and a friends show no poi or group difference between clean and fouled but we shot ours to find out, your rifle may be completely different. No way I'd clean and hunt without knowing.
 
Alot of this is why I got a smokeless as my main gun. I would leave it fouled for the remainder of the season but this muzzleloader has a extremely tight bore and even with harvest vent ribs it's tough after shot 3 or 4 times, I need to mess with bullets a little more next season find a good fit but This gun is going to used by my father for a sit or two this week who is getting older and has a tough time loading due to bad shoulders so I'm really just trying to make it easier to load. I may clean the breach plug and run a dry cloth down the barrel to knock the crud out and reload it so the barrel will still be slightly fouled but not shiny clean. I will probably have him use the smokeless if there is a possibility of very far shots.
 
NChunt1 said:
Alot of this is why I got a smokeless as my main gun. I would leave it fouled for the remainder of the season but this muzzleloader has a extremely tight bore and even with harvest vent ribs it's tough after shot 3 or 4 times, I need to mess with bullets a little more next season find a good fit but This gun is going to used by my father for a sit or two this week who is getting older and has a tough time loading due to bad shoulders so I'm really just trying to make it easier to load. I may clean the breach plug and run a dry cloth down the barrel to knock the crud out and reload it so the barrel will still be slightly fouled but not shiny clean. I will probably have him use the smokeless if there is a possibility of very far shots.
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You need to go sabotless and get a sizing die.
 
I have ours all setup and dialed in for a clean barrel. Even though the bergara barrels are stainless, I don't want to leave our muzzleloaders with a fouled barrel for the duration of the season. That said, from a clean barrel first shot during practice sessions to following shots in ours there is no poi shift with just running a spit patch and clean patch between shots.
 
Shoot it. lol.
I can shoot mine clean and swab between shots and still stay zeroed for ML season then clean it for storage after wards.
 
I take mine to the range a few days before the season starts to verify zero and make any necessary tweaks. When I get home, I run several dry patches through it to remove the bulk of any fouling out of the barrel. No solvent or brush, just dry patches. The rifle is a Knight Ultra-lite and it shoots pretty close clean or dirty but I like to keep variables to a minimum during the season. Once to season is done, it gets a good deep cleaning before long storage. I shoot Blackhorn out it and I've not seen any indications of rust doing this over the seasons I've had the rifle.
 
When I had my 45 Encore using Blackhorn, 1st shot was the same as the 15th shot. Clean barrel or dirty barrel didn't make a difference. Like already said several times, only way to know how your ML shoots is to verify. With 777 my clean barrel shot different than a dirty barrel. Always zeroed it in with dirty barrel so I didn't have to clean the barrel before reloading a second shot.
 
My optima like a fouled barrel with 209. Best groups are shots 5-8.
I usually take 4 or 5 shot to verify setup then hunt rest of season fouled.
Have never had any issues.
Clean end of season.
 
I swab out between every shot with alcohol. It evaporates quickly. I run a brush down it, then patch it, let it dry for a minute, then check my impact. Has worked for many years for me.
 
NChunt1 said:
I have both but this muzzleloader gets very lose towards the the breach end and I would almost be worried to try to size a bullet.
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Mine is the same. I have a converted CVA scout 45-70. Hornady XTPs do pretty dang well in the sizing die. Have to start em off in the barrel with a short ramrod cuz they're so tight, but by the time they get down to the throat end they fit perfect. and shoot amazing.
 
One thing I have learned over my years if you have a ML or any firearm that is so temperamental that you need to worry about clean bore , fouling shot cold bore shots or hot shots only. It's time to find a better gun that is less temperamental.

I would much rather say have a ML that shoots 1.5 MIN that is not temperamental than say one that shoots 1/2 inch groups that I have to fuss over.
 
I started M/L with a Traditions Buckstalker Wally world kit. Pyrodex powder and different kinds of sabot rounds. I went from the Traditions to a Knight. By this time I was using XTPs. Moved from the Knight to a CVA Wolf. Thru the three smoke poles one thing I learned is that I hate sabots. I love being able to load a .451 round with smokeless powder and a wool wad.
 
NChunt1 said:
I have both but this muzzleloader gets very lose towards the the breach end and I would almost be worried to try to size a bullet.
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In other words your barrel is choked at the muzzle. I've found that to size sabotless on a choked barrel requires an extra step. I adjust the die so the bullet fits the muzzle snug. Then I roll the bullet between 2 Rosie O'Donnell files which knurles it. This allows the rifling to partially engrave the jacket. The bullet will fit better down at the breech. Always use an Eastern Maine dry wool wad under the bullet. Always reseat the bullet before hunting. Also, you want to size for a freshly fouled bore. Do not try to load on a fouled bore after it sat overnite. The powder fouling hardens and will make loading very difficult. I typically check my zero in Oct and immediately reload. Leave a spent primer in the plug. Throughout season, reload immediately after firing the gun.
 
jlanecr500 said:
In other words your barrel is choked at the muzzle. I've found that to size sabotless on a choked barrel requires an extra step. I adjust the die so the bullet fits the muzzle snug. Then I roll the bullet between 2 ******* files which knurles it. This allows the rifling to partially engrave the jacket. The bullet will fit better down at the breech. Always use an Eastern Maine dry wool wad under the bullet. Always reseat the bullet before hunting. Also, you want to size for a freshly fouled bore. Do not try to load on a fouled bore after it sat overnite. The powder fouling hardens and will make loading very difficult. I typically check my zero in Oct and immediately reload. Leave a spent primer in the plug. Throughout season, reload immediately after firing the gun.
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Coning has been a very popular way of making a ML barrel easier to load dating back to the 1700's. They use to do them by hand with a file.
 
backyardtndeer said:
I have ours all setup and dialed in for a clean barrel. Even though the bergara barrels are stainless, I don't want to leave our muzzleloaders with a fouled barrel for the duration of the season. That said, from a clean barrel first shot during practice sessions to following shots in ours there is no poi shift with just running a spit patch and clean patch between shots.
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Same here.
 

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