Field-judge mature bucks

[BSK]

I've debated making this post as I don't want to sound like I'm knocking anyone or questioning their skills. But I've also never shied away from trying to educate, so here it is...

When someone posts a trail-cam picture of a buck on here and asks "Is this buck mature," I see a lot of comments about whether the buck has a swayed back and a saggy belly. I realize this field-judging advice has been given out by a lot of popular hunting shows and literature, but I question the value of that advice. I've looked at a lot of pictures of Tennessee deer (as in over 2 million). I've seen pictures of hundreds and hundreds of mature Tennessee bucks, many of which were later killed and their age confirmed. Yet it is extremely rare to see a Tennessee buck with a deeply swayed back or truly saggy belly. Mature Tennessee bucks just look "thick." If they have a swayed back and saggy belly, they are most likely extremely old.

Many good indicators of buck age (and maturity) exist, but in my opinion, the best indicator of maturity in Tennessee bucks is to look at the depth of the buck's chest in relation to the length of his front legs. At maturity (4 1/2), a buck's chest will be about as deep as his front legs are long. In essence, the two measurements will be about equal (top of the shoulder to the bottom of the brisket will look equal to the length of the front leg from the brisket to the ground).

Within 2-4 weeks of the rut kicking off, the second best indicator of maturity is the neck. Mature bucks develop truly massive necks near the rut. Their necks will bulk up so thick it can make their face look short, even giving their face a "blocky" look. of course, pre-rut (September into early October) and post-rut that neck size will be different.

All of the following pictured bucks are mature Tennessee bucks (from 4 1/2 to 6 1/2). I don't see much in the way of saggy bellies or swayed backs here. But I do see deep chests and thick necks (for those pictures taken near the rut).

 

[ROVERBOY]

I agree, I don't believe all mature bucks will have that "classic" swayed back and saggy belly. I killed one that had a neck that looked like it was part of his chest. He didn't have a swayed back. And he was thought to be mature. It could even be partly genetics that causes the sway back/saggy belly.

 

[DeerCamp]

Bryan - just put me in for a pre-order whenever you finally write your book!

 

[Dennis]

You can also notice the lack of a waist on those bucks.

 

[BSK]

I agree, I don't believe all mature bucks will have that "classic" swayed back and saggy belly.

My point is, very few mature bucks have swayed backs and saggy bellies. In essence, the idea that these characteristics are the "classic" sign of maturity is a myth, and a myth I think hurts hunters' abilities to judge mature bucks.

 

[BSK]

You can also notice the lack of a waist on those bucks.

Agreed. In fact, that's a good point for differentiating a 3 1/2 year-old from a mature buck. A 3 1/2 may be very muscular, but he still has a waist.

 

[WilcoKen]

Excellent post. And great pics BTW.

 

[LiveOffLand]

Thanks for sharing, always appreciate your educational posts

 

[puppy]

BSK, I agree 100% with your thoughts on this. 1st 3 pics of a buck killed in 2019, 11/14 for trail cam pics and 12/3 for the kill pic. 2nd set of pics from same lease in 2020, 11/3 & 11/28 for the trail cam pics and 12/3 for the kill pic. Multiple years of pics for both and confident both no less than 4.5 yo but no saggy belly or swayed back on either, both of these bucks from far E. TN if that makes any difference.

 

[Shooter77]

Excellent post! I shot a buck last year on a management hunt. Before all deer had to have 15 1/2" outside spread . Due to CWD in the county and surrounding 2 counties, they asked to shoot only mature 4.5+ y/o deer. No antler size. They gave a big spill about body shape. An hour into my hunt, this buck came walk through a thicket eating acorns, I guess he was 3.5 and took the shot. The main biologist asked me how I came to a age on the deer. I told her what I thought and I said, I knew he was 3.5 for sure. My deer was aged by 3 different biologist with the VA DWR to be 4.5 y/o. He had a whopping 13 3/4" outside spread and weighted in at 156 lbs live.

 

[UTGrad]

I recently saw a blurb that wildlife biologists are only correct aging a deer 38% of the time based off appearance. It's all conjecture I guess until the teeth are observed.

 

[recurve60#]

Ive never run cameras, but see everyone else's pics.lol its hard for me to tell in a pic what it is unless its an OMG what hog deer.
I feel pretty good about myself though if I can see a buck on his feet moving. In person visual on body shape and how the deer carries his head, how he moves has worked very well for me. I usually know in an instant before I ever see horns.

 

[BSK]

I usually know in an instant before I ever see horns.

And that's good. You should not look at antlers to field judge age. The range in antler sizes for each age-class is massive. In fact, with a large enough data set you will find top-end yearling bucks with larger antlers than bottom-end mature bucks. Body shape (certain characteristics) are your best judge of age.

The only time I use antlers is as sort of a "tie-breaker." These characteristics say 3 1/2 while these characteristics say 4 1/2. Then I'll look at antlers (primarily mass) as the final tie-breaker.

 

[backyardtndeer]

May just be me, but watching mature bucks move versus young bucks, there is often a noticeable difference in their posture and gait.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Fantastic post BSK...and awesome pictures. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[Mattt]

Yup. To me that criteria only applies to Muleys that are feeding on alfalfa

 

[BSK]

May just be me, but watching mature bucks move versus young bucks, there is often a noticeable difference in their posture and gait.

I think that is because of their muscle structure and older skeletal structure. Their hips are wider. The distance between their front legs has gotten wider. This makes their walk more of an "amble" instead of nimble like a young deer. They walk more like a mule than a deer.

 

[recurve60#]

And that's good. You should not look at antlers to field judge age. The range in antler sizes for each age-class is massive. In fact, with a large enough data set you will find top-end yearling bucks with larger antlers than bottom-end mature bucks. Body shape (certain characteristics) are your best judge of age.

The only time I use antlers is as sort of a "tie-breaker." These characteristics say 3 1/2 while these characteristics say 4 1/2. Then I'll look at antlers (primarily mass) as the final tie-breaker.

The slow walkers. Head low, dragging feet so to speak, in no hurry. I really cant put it in words. Like an old bull.

 

[BSK]

The slow walkers. Head low, dragging feet so to speak, in no hurry. I really cant put it in words. Like an old bull.

Exactly

 

[Dennis]

And that's good. You should not look at antlers to field judge age. The range in antler sizes for each age-class is massive. In fact, with a large enough data set you will find top-end yearling bucks with larger antlers than bottom-end mature bucks. Body shape (certain characteristics) are your best judge of age.

The only time I use antlers is as sort of a "tie-breaker." These characteristics say 3 1/2 while these characteristics say 4 1/2. Then I'll look at antlers (primarily mass) as the final tie-breaker.

I have personally seen too much variability in antler mass across ages in multiple states to use that as a factor. I believe that antler mass is as variable as tine length , which makes it a factor you should ignore.

 

[BigDave12]

I think that is because of their muscle structure and older skeletal structure. Their hips are wider. The distance between their front legs has gotten wider. This makes their walk more of an "amble" instead of nimble like a young deer. They walk more like a mule than a deer.

Great points BSK and dead on. The description of wider front legs is what we sometimes refer to as "barrel chested". From a frontal (and somewhat side) view, their chest appears to "bulge" more (like the middle of a good whiskey barrel). Couple that with their side profile of an equal chest length versus leg length and you have a truly mature buck.

 

[Mr.Bro]

I think this one qualifies.

 

[BSK]

I have personally seen too much variability in antler mass across ages in multiple states to use that as a factor. I believe that antler mass is as variable as tine length , which makes it a factor you should ignore.

By themselves, I completely agree. But as one of many, many factors, it's just another piece of data to add to the mix.

 

[BSK]

Great points BSK and dead on. The description of wider front legs is what we sometimes refer to as "barrel chested". From a frontal (and somewhat side) view, their chest appears to "bulge" more (like the middle of a good whiskey barrel). Couple that with their side profile of an equal chest length versus leg length and you have a truly mature buck.

Mature bucks are definitely wider animals. A front or rear trail-cam picture will show this clearly.

 

[Shed Hunter]

Good post. I agree-if there's a sign of age like a swayed back it's almost a certainty he is old. At the same time over the past couple of years I've really started to notice that the opposite isn't always true. It seems like some older bucks can absolutely be puny and young looking in TN

 

[BSK]

It seems like some older bucks can absolutely be puny and young looking in TN

I definitely see that from time to time.

 

[AT Hiker]

I am amazed that I can go just a few miles north into KY and see the difference, overall it is night and day to me....so it seems.

 

[BSK]

I am amazed that I can go just a few miles north into KY and see the difference, overall it is night and day to me....so it seems.

I've never quite understood the difference between KY deer and TN deer. There is an outside shot there is actually a genetic difference, but I really think it is a soils/habitat difference. The plant communities I see in KY, even southern KY, is VERY different than what I see in most of TN.

 

[squackattack]

I've never quite understood the difference between KY deer and TN deer. There is an outside shot there is actually a genetic difference, but I really think it is a soils/habitat difference. The plant communities I see in KY, even southern KY, is VERY different than what I see in most of TN.

Can you give some examples. I lived for many years in Ky. I have always wanted to know how east ky(poor soils) can produce some very nice deer and what I have seen in TN is no where the same quality. Also reclaimed mine ground produces quality deer and that allegedly is the worst soils.

 

[TheLBLman]

Great info on this thread!

As to the KY bucks, soil is an important factor, but
I believe less antler high-grading by hunters in KY (compared to TN)
is also a significant factor.

And, no, I do not want a 1-buck limit in TN, although would like
to see deer season totally end sometime in December.

I suspect at least some
of KY's better herd performance may be attributed to less herd stress
from late-season hunting . In TN, we do tremendously more
deer hunting than KY after mid-December, adding stress when
food sources are becoming more scarce.

Even though there is an extended archery season in KY,
the gun hunting is mainly just part of November.
This equates to less herd stress, which is a very important factor.