Farmer depredation

[RobbyW]

I saw this being mentioned on another thread but didn't want to hijack it.

What are your thoughts on deer nuisance permits? I think I am the minority on here in that I think they do have a place. Hunting is a hobby, not my income.

I think where most hunters disagree is mainly two areas.
1. Waste. I agree with this one. They could use the meat to feed a lot of people, but who pays for it?
2. The argument of they should just let hunters hunt on their land. The problem is farmers want deer gone. They don't care if it's a 160" or spike. A lot of hunters won't shoot that spike. Also there are a lot of people that will rut up the fields, leave trash, and just not take care of it. I can see where a farmer would get tired of dealing with it.

So where is the balance? What's the solution?


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[csi-tech]

Re: Farmer depredation

I traded hunting privileges for working a depredation permit. I killed some deer that were actively eating grapes at a vineyard during the night. If given the opportunity again I doubt I'd do it. Easier just to buy into a club or lease. As for the waste? Yes it is pretty wasteful but we didn't shoot near as many deer as I thought we would. You had to turn in any rack over 6 points to the TWRA and I didn't let the meat go to waste. I didn't read where I had to. There has to be a way for hunters to protect their livelihood, it's a necessary evil I suppose.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

Re: Farmer depredation

I am against the depredation permits. I have never seen enough crop damage on the place I hunt to really have much of an impact on the profits, and I absolutely hate to see any deer shot and left to rot, or a doe shot and her fawns left to starve to death. If the land owners/farmers could come to an agreement with some hunters on a number of deer to remove(other than all of them) and if the farmers would at least let some people that they know hunt their farms to work toward removing some during season, it would help a lot. And if the hunter messes up, then the next year someone else would be the one doing the hunting it might help.

Maybe there is another better solution, who knows.

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Farmer depredation

So where is the balance? What's the solution?


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I know a BUNCH of hunters who don't kill does (mainly because they don't use a whole lot of meat and would rather kill a buck for the one or two a year they kill). There's no easy solution, but I would rather hunters kill the deer even if it results in a lesser hunting experience than the farmers. We can be selective, they won't.

I've heard stories of farmers that stop allowing hunters to hunt simply because the hunters wouldn't kill deer.

Unfortunately, in a few situations, we won't be able to have it both ways.


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[Snake]

Re: Farmer depredation

I really think there could be a win - win if everyone compromise . Had the opportunity to do such a thing but he didn't want me to hunt but wanted me to come out there at night with a spotlight and shoot deer . Knew a guy I usually take a deer or two every year that worked for him and he said that they would shoot the deer with 22's where they would go off somewhere and die . I told him that as wasteful ,he agreed but this farmer was kinda set in his ways . Think it could work out for both parties if they worked at it . I agree hunting is a pass time but farmers are trying to make a living so I see the farmers side of things . I really need a good farm or two :D (hint).

 

[DRSJ35]

Re: Farmer depredation

I think you would have a problem with it if you leased or owned land right next to a place that Deer were getting wiped out like that.Why dont farmers just let people hunt it normally maybe even lease to hunt.Most wont do and then complain that deer are eating everything.Then get a permit ill everything.If you shoot a deer with a 22 it will die but be in agony for hours or days.There should be some compromise.Why doesn't TWRA trap them and take them to a wma somewhere that really needs them.

 

[cbhunter]

Re: Farmer depredation

So where is the balance? What's the solution?


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I know a BUNCH of hunters who don't kill does (mainly because they don't use a whole lot of meat and would rather kill a buck for the one or two a year they kill). There's no easy solution, but I would rather hunters kill the deer even if it results in a lesser hunting experience than the farmers. We can be selective, they won't.

I've heard stories of farmers that stop allowing hunters to hunt simply because the hunters wouldn't kill deer.

Unfortunately, in a few situations, we won't be able to have it both ways.


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Lost probably the 2nd best farm I ever had to hunt because we (3 of us) failed to kill deer like the owner/farmer wanted us to. He had some GREAT bucks so we held off. If we would have just killed a handful of does each year, we would still be hunting there. He slaughters them each year with depredation permits.


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[rukiddin]

Re: Farmer depredation

.Why dont farmers just let people hunt it normally maybe even lease to hunt.

Most farmers I know have let strangers and Still let close friends hunt their land but they got fed up with babysitting a bunch of deer hunters. Not shooting enough deer, rutting up fields, trash, hunters calling farmers and squabbling over other hunters hunting the property.
Farmers and landowners don't wanna deal with the drama. And sooner or later, there will be drama. My dad owned 250 acres and let a couple guys hunt he didn't know who called because they saw the phone number on the posted signs. Within a year, both were calling my dad and bitching about what the other guy had done. He finally just said enough is enough and stopped letting anyone hunt except for my two cousins who lived right beside the property.

As far as the trapping idea.....who gonna pay for it? TWRA is already stretched pretty thin both financially and personnel.

A lot of my friends Farm and some of them shoot deer during the summer. But in the 25 years I've known them to depredation shoot in the summer, it has never affected the deer numbers from a quality of hunt perspective. They all hunt also and still kill plenty of deer throughout the season. They give the deer they shoot in the summer to the Hispanics who work for them. They will never leave deer laying. A deer skeleton will shutdown a combine quick.
My personal opinion is A hobby is never as important as a mans job.........

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Farmer depredation

So where is the balance? What's the solution?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know a BUNCH of hunters who don't kill does (mainly because they don't use a whole lot of meat and would rather kill a buck for the one or two a year they kill). There's no easy solution, but I would rather hunters kill the deer even if it results in a lesser hunting experience than the farmers. We can be selective, they won't.

I've heard stories of farmers that stop allowing hunters to hunt simply because the hunters wouldn't kill deer.

Unfortunately, in a few situations, we won't be able to have it both ways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lost probably the 2nd best farm I ever had to hunt because we (3 of us) failed to kill deer like the owner/farmer wanted us to. He had some GREAT bucks so we held off. If we would have just killed a handful of does each year, we would still be hunting there. He slaughters them each year with depredation permits.


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I've had friends who have been given permission to hunt properties as long as they kill EVERY legal deer they see. I could easily see it being difficult to burn a couple or all of your three (or two now) buck tags on the first yearlings you see.

There are members of this site who have hunted under these agreements and have been criticized and ridiculed (in the past) for killing more than someone across the state thought they should. Every situation is a little different.

 

[scn]

Re: Farmer depredation

I think you would have a problem with it if you leased or owned land right next to a place that Deer were getting wiped out like that.Why dont farmers just let people hunt it normally maybe even lease to hunt.Most wont do and then complain that deer are eating everything.Then get a permit ill everything.If you shoot a deer with a 22 it will die but be in agony for hours or days.There should be some compromise.Why doesn't TWRA trap them and take them to a wma somewhere that really needs them.

Deer trapping is a very costly job. When TWRA was doing their deer restoration many years ago, a lot of the costs were funded through PR federal aid. It is illegal under that program to trap, move, and hunt in the same year. All of the deer had to be moved into restoration zones that were closed to hunting for a period of time. It would not be legal to move them to a WMA and have that area open to hunt the same year.

TWRA is out of the deer trapping business unless something terrible were to happen totally wiping out a deer herd.

 

[JDUB]

Re: Farmer depredation

I as well have mixed feelings. The waste is the biggest part for me. If deer were eating my dollar bills I would want em all dead too. I volunteer when I can for Hunters for the Hungry her in W TN. I hear some, not all but some farmers complain all the time of the deer eating crops. And Some, not all but some of these farmers do deer hunt during regular deer season, BUT, when you ask how the harvest is, they don't shoot does either during legal season! Some, not all but Some, wait until summer to kill as many as they can BUT trophy hunt during season. This makes absolutely no sense to me, Why not shoot all the deer you can during season and donate them HFH. Win Win IMO but maybe its more fun to ride around at night and shoot em from the road? IDK

 

[landman]

Re: Farmer depredation

I am against the depredation permits. I have never seen enough crop damage on the place I hunt to really have much of an impact on the profits, and I absolutely hate to see any deer shot and left to rot, or a doe shot and her fawns left to starve to death. If the land owners/farmers could come to an agreement with some hunters on a number of deer to remove(other than all of them) and if the farmers would at least let some people that they know hunt their farms to work toward removing some during season, it would help a lot. And if the hunter messes up, then the next year someone else would be the one doing the hunting it might help.

Maybe there is another better solution, who knows.

I can show you places where the deer ate an 80 acres bean field to the ground.......and the landowners where killing 25 does on that tract, no one farmer it now

You have to look at the farmers side too

30 years ago you let someone hunt and they show up and do that, these days the Hunter is driving a $60,000 or more truck, has a $8-20,000 a tv/utv on a trailer with $500-1,0000 in stands in truck bed with $$$$$ of gear, and very few hunters kill does. It seems to them the hunters have it made

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Farmer depredation

I as well have mixed feelings. The waste is the biggest part for me. If deer were eating my dollar bills I would want em all dead too. I volunteer when I can for Hunters for the Hungry her in W TN. I hear some, not all but some farmers complain all the time of the deer eating crops. And Some, not all but some of these farmers do deer hunt during regular deer season, BUT, when you ask how the harvest is, they don't shoot does either during legal season! Some, not all but Some, wait until summer to kill as many as they can BUT trophy hunt during season. This makes absolutely no sense to me, Why not shoot all the deer you can during season and donate them HFH. Win Win IMO but maybe its more fun to ride around at night and shoot em from the road? IDK

Imagine how many will be killed out of season when the antler hobbyists get their way again and Unit L is reduced to two does/year. The "I prefer beef" and "start hog farming if your family needs more than 2 does" are lobbying, I can promise you that.

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Farmer depredation

I am against the depredation permits. I have never seen enough crop damage on the place I hunt to really have much of an impact on the profits, and I absolutely hate to see any deer shot and left to rot, or a doe shot and her fawns left to starve to death. If the land owners/farmers could come to an agreement with some hunters on a number of deer to remove(other than all of them) and if the farmers would at least let some people that they know hunt their farms to work toward removing some during season, it would help a lot. And if the hunter messes up, then the next year someone else would be the one doing the hunting it might help.

Maybe there is another better solution, who knows.

I can show you places where the deer ate an 80 acres bean field to the ground.......and the landowners where killing 25 does on that tract, no one farmer it now

You have to look at the farmers side too

30 years ago you let someone hunt and they show up and do that, these days the Hunter is driving a $60,000 or more truck, has a $8-20,000 a tv/utv on a trailer with $500-1,0000 in stands in truck bed with $$$$$ of gear, and very few hunters kill does. It seems to them the hunters have it made

And these guys are pushing hard to get the limits lower and lower.

 

[Roost 1]

Re: Farmer depredation

The best place I ever hunted, the farmer received 30 crop damage tags a year. These were antlerless only. 6 of us hunted this farm. As a condition of us having permission to hunt, each of us were to kill at least 5 antlerless deer per season. He left the tags in the barn, we got them as we needed them. We always managed to fill all the tags plus some. It was win\win for me. Now with all this being said, the adjoining land owners\hunters did not shoot many antlerless deer. I'll repeat this was the best place I have ever hunted and the only place I've ever hunted where killing that many doe per year did not make a difference.

 

[Mike Belt]

Re: Farmer depredation

Boils down to some places need deer removed and some don't. I can come up with no happy medium.

 

[landman]

Re: Farmer depredation

The best place I ever hunted, the farmer received 30 crop damage tags a year. These were antlerless only. 6 of us hunted this farm. As a condition of us having permission to hunt, each of us were to kill at least 5 antlerless deer per season. He left the tags in the barn, we got them as we needed them. We always managed to fill all the tags plus some. It was win\win for me. Now with all this being said, the adjoining land owners\hunters did not shoot many antlerless deer. I'll repeat this was the best place I have ever hunted and the only place I've ever hunted where killing that many doe per year did not make a difference.

Roost, I know of some farms just like that still, the last farmer was killing 40 does a year himself, now a new farmer that doesn't hunt has already leased the hunting rights to 2 guys that mite kill 1 or 2 does, it's going to shock this farmer somewhat. He was farming an area that was very rural and felt it had too many deer, he's going to learn a lesson about this new place, the adjoining tracts are owner and leased to one family that only Buck hunts

 

[landman]

Re: Farmer depredation

I as well have mixed feelings. The waste is the biggest part for me. If deer were eating my dollar bills I would want em all dead too. I volunteer when I can for Hunters for the Hungry her in W TN. I hear some, not all but some farmers complain all the time of the deer eating crops. And Some, not all but some of these farmers do deer hunt during regular deer season, BUT, when you ask how the harvest is, they don't shoot does either during legal season! Some, not all but Some, wait until summer to kill as many as they can BUT trophy hunt during season. This makes absolutely no sense to me, Why not shoot all the deer you can during season and donate them HFH. Win Win IMO but maybe its more fun to ride around at night and shoot em from the road? IDK

Imagine how many will be killed out of season when the antler hobbyists get their way again and Unit L is reduced to two does/year. The "I prefer beef" and "start hog farming if your family needs more than 2 does" are lobbying, I can promise you that.

Hum.....haven't heard of anyone pushing for 2 does only in Unit L.........

 

[TX300mag]

Re: Farmer depredation

I as well have mixed feelings. The waste is the biggest part for me. If deer were eating my dollar bills I would want em all dead too. I volunteer when I can for Hunters for the Hungry her in W TN. I hear some, not all but some farmers complain all the time of the deer eating crops. And Some, not all but some of these farmers do deer hunt during regular deer season, BUT, when you ask how the harvest is, they don't shoot does either during legal season! Some, not all but Some, wait until summer to kill as many as they can BUT trophy hunt during season. This makes absolutely no sense to me, Why not shoot all the deer you can during season and donate them HFH. Win Win IMO but maybe its more fun to ride around at night and shoot em from the road? IDK

Imagine how many will be killed out of season when the antler hobbyists get their way again and Unit L is reduced to two does/year. The "I prefer beef" and "start hog farming if your family needs more than 2 does" are lobbying, I can promise you that.

Hum.....haven't heard of anyone pushing for 2 does only in Unit L.........

Some 2, some 3. But it's what all the cool kids are doing. :D




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[muddyboots]

Re: Farmer depredation

I as well have mixed feelings. The waste is the biggest part for me. If deer were eating my dollar bills I would want em all dead too. I volunteer when I can for Hunters for the Hungry her in W TN. I hear some, not all but some farmers complain all the time of the deer eating crops. And Some, not all but some of these farmers do deer hunt during regular deer season, BUT, when you ask how the harvest is, they don't shoot does either during legal season! Some, not all but Some, wait until summer to kill as many as they can BUT trophy hunt during season. This makes absolutely no sense to me, Why not shoot all the deer you can during season and donate them HFH. Win Win IMO but maybe its more fun to ride around at night and shoot em from the road? IDK

Imagine how many will be killed out of season when the antler hobbyists get their way again and Unit L is reduced to two does/year. The "I prefer beef" and "start hog farming if your family needs more than 2 does" are lobbying, I can promise you that.

Hum.....haven't heard of anyone pushing for 2 does only in Unit L.........

Me neither. I must not be in the cool group.

 

[pressfit]

Re: Farmer depredation

Try giving a dead deer away in the middle of July when is 140 degrees in the shade and 500 flies swarming all over it..

 

[cozy23]

Re: Farmer depredation

How about a county by county depredation draw hunt program.

Any farmer with permits can open his land to the draw hunts. Hunters choose a county. TWRA draws names and selects the farms.

Make it an "earn a buck" program to ensure the hunters are not strictly trophy hunting.

BOOM! There's the answer right there.

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[Roost 1]

Re: Farmer depredation

Depardation hunts are ridiculous in the first place. They allow the shooting of any deer. If anything is allowed, it should be antlerless only. KY doesn't even issue crop damage tags anymore to my knowledge. In zone 1 counties antlerlesss harvest is unlimited during season, landowners don't have to buy tags to hunt their own land.

 

[rukiddin]

Re: Farmer depredation

How about a county by county depredation draw hunt program.

Any farmer with permits can open his land to the draw hunts. Hunters choose a county. TWRA draws names and selects the farms.

Make it an "earn a buck" program to ensure the hunters are not strictly trophy hunting.

BOOM! There's the answer right there.

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That's good in theory but most farmers have been burnt by idiot deer hunters in the past. That's why a lot will only allow family or people they know well to hunt. Farmers aren't babysitters and when you start allowing a bunch of joe public deer hunters, one will eventually do something stupid to ruin it for everyone.

 

[pressfit]

Re: Farmer depredation

Depardation hunts are ridiculous in the first place. They allow the shooting of any deer. If anything is allowed, it should be antlerless only. KY doesn't even issue crop damage tags anymore to my knowledge. In zone 1 counties antlerlesss harvest is unlimited during season, landowners don't have to buy tags to hunt their own land.

Why are they ridiculous? If you made a living selling cheese and you had 40-50 rats in your store each night eating all your cheese you would catch and kill them..
why anterless only? Bucks mowcdown as many soybeans as does do.. when it comes time to pay the money back you borrowed to pay for the seed, the fertilizer, the herbicide, the land taxes, the tractor, combine, grain bin, grain truck, planter, chisel plow, disk, etc.. the banker is not going to say.. good job!! Since you let the bucks walk your not going to have to pay all of the money back.. just part of it...

 

[Roost 1]

Re: Farmer depredation

Let's keep it real... 1 groundhog will do more damage to beans than 10 deer. Deer eat the green leaves not the bean itself. I have seen small fields demolished but this is not the norm and if one watches one of these fields you will see 10x as many antlerless deer than you will see antlered deer. Coming from an agriculture background and living in a big farming community I do have experience with this situation. I know some farmers that say the deer destroy there crops and 90% of the time it's simply not true and apparently the Fish and Wildlife agree since they stopped issueing the crop damage tags.
Most depardation permits are not used for their original intent. Also, depardation permits and crop damage permits are totally different permits. Although the results are usually the same(dead deer) the intent for each are different.
I'm not against farmers by any means but the govt makes sure they are successful and they are some of the biggest welfare recipients around. Deer eating bean leaves should not be at top of their list of worries and honestly I'm sure it's not. Seldom hear any complaining about crop damage these days unless they are farming refuge type areas where hunting is either very limited or not allowed. However if it was a losing proposition they would not farm those places however they fight for those places every year trying to outbid each other.

 

[pressfit]

Re: Farmer depredation

I didn't know there was a difference on the permits.. I do know that the majority of my beans were waist high except the areas near the woods where the deer entered the field each day.. there the beans ranged from ankle high to knee high.. one of my friends had a 30 acre field that the insurance company made him harvest.. it made 30 bushels.. not to the acre but the whole field... a bushel to the acre.. no groundhogs were involved.. growing up I trapped groundhogs for $5 each from my uncles bean fields.. they eat a half moon in front of their den.. coyotes have pretty much wiped them out around here.. you see one occasionally..

 

[Roost 1]

Re: Farmer depredation

Sounds like y'all may need to shoot some antlerless deer. Do you live in an area with high deer density or just not very much agriculture, which would cause to deer congregate near the crops beans especially during the summer? I have a buddy who planted a 35 acre field 3 times in a refuge type area. The deer would not allow the beans to get very tall before snipping the top off. He said the last time he planted the field he counted 75 doe in the field right before dark. Although this is definitely a problem, it's not normal by any means. As bad as it sounds he's not only going to continue raising crops there but he was awarded more land for being the highest bidder. I'll never be convinced he's losing money there regardless of the crop damage attributed to deer.

 

[rukiddin]

Re: Farmer depredation

Let's keep it real... 1 groundhog will do more damage to beans than 10 deer. Deer eat the green leaves not the bean itself. I have seen small fields demolished but this is not the norm and if one watches one of these fields you will see 10x as many antlerless deer than you will see antlered deer. Coming from an agriculture background and living in a big farming community I do have experience with this situation. I know some farmers that say the deer destroy there crops and 90% of the time it's simply not true and apparently the Fish and Wildlife agree since they stopped issueing the crop damage tags.
Most depardation permits are not used for their original intent. Also, depardation permits and crop damage permits are totally different permits. Although the results are usually the same(dead deer) the intent for each are different.
I'm not against farmers by any means but the govt makes sure they are successful and they are some of the biggest welfare recipients around. Deer eating bean leaves should not be at top of their list of worries and honestly I'm sure it's not. Seldom hear any complaining about crop damage these days unless they are farming refuge type areas where hunting is either very limited or not allowed. However if it was a losing proposition they would not farm those places however they fight for those places every year trying to outbid each other.

Farmers don't give two $h!ts about a deer once the beans are made. Because like I said......the beans are made. A soybean will not grow to maturity if it's not allowed to get more than 6" out of the ground and typical soybeans will just give up and quit after being ate back a couple of times and that's with perfect rain. Even forage type soybeans are no good if they're allowed to grow to the point they can make leaves. I don't know of any of my friends who are farmers who shoot ANY deer once bean is made. Or maybe I just grew up in an area where there are a lot more deer and there wasn't a refuge within 75 miles of any of the fields.
I agree with you on them eating the leaves but when you shine a light across a field of 3-6" soybeans and there's 50+ deer standing in it eating, the beans never have a chance.

 

[Country1]

Re: Farmer depredation

It's easy to state a farmer shouldn't be allowed to protect his investment. If the deer belong to the state, then shouldn't the state be required to pay for crop damage. As for the welfare statement, that might apply to corporate farms, but not to the majority. If farming is so profitable, have at it.