348Winchester
Well-Known Member
What is a general time frame for herd recovery from EHD with a good habitat?
EHD Recovery
- Thread starter 348Winchester
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JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
Are you just west of Hohenwald and Waynesboro? If so, I assume you are talking about the EHD outbreak last year (summer of 2019)? I know it is the worst case of EHD I have ever experienced. I will let more knowledgeable folks expand on this. I personally would typically say 2-4 years for "herd recovery", however, I know some have talked about on here how the 2007 EHD outbreak taking YEARS to recover. I remember 2007, and atleast in our area, it was nothing like what happened in 2019. The 2007 outbreak took our place about 3 years to recover. Have I seen ANY improvements from last year, even a slight bump in deer numbers? Not at all - I have a feeling this one is going to take a while.
BSK
Well-Known Member
What JCDeerman said. Normally, about 3 years to bounce back. But I've seen shorter, and definitely seen much longer.
jag1
Well-Known Member
This may be a stupid question BUT how do we find out about these EHD outbreaks? Does TWRA publish this information or is it anecdotal evidence we see?
For us in 2017, we already knew we were in a serious drought, then our deer numbers on cameras plummeted. Then just walking the woods in early fall in creeks and small ponds and finding deer after deer after deer dead.
348Winchester
Well-Known Member
It's been 3 years since our outbreak and I have seen improvements. I hope the recovery accelerates over the next couple of years.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Don't know about the latest one, but the TWRA covered the 2007 outbreak quite intensively. Even maps on their website showing greatest areas of impact.
larry ipock
Well-Known Member
Scott Cty is recovering, but nowhere near it was before the 2017 outbreak.
348Winchester
Well-Known Member
I agree Larry. The recovery is happening but not as quickly as it did from the 2007 outbreak.
What area of the county do you hunt?
What area of the county do you hunt?
It totally depends upon the level of EHD mortality. This my "semi-educated, layman's" perspective. From my "wildlife management schooling days," long ago, I was taught that in healthy deer herds you can take 25% (plus or minus) of a given population of deer every year and maintain "equal herd stability" from year to year. So, with a 25% mortality rate from an EHD outbreak by itself, in theory it will recover in a year. But add, for instance, another 20 or 25% in hunter harvest to the EHD 25% (total 45-50% herd loss) and you're looking at a minimum of two years recovery and maybe more if there is a logarithmic decline in reproduction due to the dramatic decline in deer density.
The biggest problem is always estimating the degree of mortality due to EHD. Sure, some stricken deer and/or carcasses are seen. But most die far away from our prying eyes. I would guess TWRA folks have some methodology to estimate the degree of EHD mortality, but that's way above my pay grade. :)
The biggest problem is always estimating the degree of mortality due to EHD. Sure, some stricken deer and/or carcasses are seen. But most die far away from our prying eyes. I would guess TWRA folks have some methodology to estimate the degree of EHD mortality, but that's way above my pay grade. :)
I reckon it depends on the severity of the outbreak and other conditions. The outbreak of 2007 on the Cheatham WMA was brutal. That year on Easter morning the temperatures out here were around 18 degrees, it smoked the blooms and foilage on all trees, the summer had that record breaking heat wave and a combination of a prolonged drought.... I didn't see deer on my property for 4-5 years. It was bad.
BSK
Well-Known Member
During the 2007 outbreak, mortality in the "hot zone" of western Middle TN, was in the 30-40% range. In fact, I would suggest that is a minimum. It was truly brutal. However, there were pockets where it was even worse. That summer I was volunteering with the TWRA to run the thermal imaging censuses they had developed. While censusing Williamson County, it was gagging riding in the back of the research truck every time we crossed a creek. The smell of rotting deer was overpowering. The following year, in the summer of 2008 while conducted thermal imaging censuses in the same area, we could hardly find a deer. On routes where we had been counting dozens of deer per night the previous year, we counted no deer out all out in the fields at night. I suspect the mortality in some of those pockets was 70-80%.
I have no data on the 2017 outbreak.
The 2019 outbreak hit the three counties of Hickman, Perry, and Humphreys quite hard (although many surrounding counties also experienced some die-off). Looking at harvest data from last year, I suspect mortality in Hickman and Perry county was 30-40%, while in Humphreys, more like 20-25%.
larry ipock
Well-Known Member
I hunt the northern central part of the county. Started deer hunting in '74. Call me crazy, but never heard much about EHD until '07. I blame it on the elk brought here in the late '90s and early 2000's
Perry, Hickman, and Lewis had a 60% mortality summer and fall 2019. Thats according to twra and sightings.
JCDEERMAN
Well-Known Member
I would also add Lewis to that list from what I've heard, but may have just been mostly the NW portion of the county.
I'm glad you brought up the fact that pockets can see a 70-80% herd loss. I believe this is the case at our place in the 2019 outbreak. I was estimating at a MINIMUM 60% herd loss.
To be conservative, my calculations were this:
Take 100 deer - let's say 60 (%) female and 40 (%) male
50% of those females died = 30 does
80% of those 40 males died = 32 bucks
That's a 62% herd loss - however, again, that's at a minimum. I believe it is likely another 10%. I've been monitoring our 1 sq mile of property since October of 2000 and I've never seen anything like it.
I have my own theory on the mortality of the bucks being so much higher. This theory is that when these midges are trying to bite and get to the bloodstream of deer, they can either try and get through hide, which is generally a tougher task to do. Or they can go for around the eyes, mouth, nose, etc.....OR they can go for the tender velvet containing blood flow coming off a bucks head. The bigger the buck, the more exposure. I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
BSK
Well-Known Member
The estimates I gave for the 2019 outbreak were based almost exclusively on harvest data, which would produce only a minimum mortality. Generally, hunter harvest does not decline as much as the actual population does. Following a population decline from any cause, hunters just hunt harder and longer and end up taking an over-representative sample.
BSK
Well-Known Member
That's a fascinating idea - higher buck infection rates because of their velvet antlers. I had never thought of that.
Most often, higher male, especially older male, mortality rates have been attributed to social behaviors common in August, when infections usually peak. At that time, most females have not returned to their larger social units. Instead it is just a mother doe and her fawns traveling together. If they visit a highly infected water hole, just they die. However, at this time older bucks are often traveling in large bachelor groups. If a large bachelor group visits I highly infested water hole, all of them may die, and that could be as many 6-8 older bucks.
Our lease is in Hickman and was hit hard last year. Forget how many we found dead but stopped hunting and didn't take a deer. Wasn't expecting much this year and had deer everywhere. Ended up killing 6 bucks and we know 3 were at least 3.5 and 1 was 5.5 (I posted the teeth here). The other 2 were 2.5 and 1 of them may be 3.5. Didn't shoot any does.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Amazing how quickly some places rebound and how slowly others do.
Have a client in Perry County and they too decided not to kill any deer last year due to the extremely low numbers after EHD.
I bought property in Perry county feb 2019. We killed one doe on it. This year we killed two does. Two hunting seasons now and we have not shot a buck but we have pictures of a couple decent ones. I have cameras on 3 out of four food plots and only have about 4 total pictures all year of day time mature buck movement. Game warden told me about 60% loss from ehd summer 2019. My problem is TWRA left the area in unit L. They need to manage based on most recent data but they choose to not manage at all. They are fee takers and season setters only. I have no problem with someone taking does but three a day is ridiculous and sends the wrong message. I think TWRA is probably glad when ehd kills deer right now. They think the ehd die off helps with killing off deer if cwd spreads to the area. Isnt that how they manage cwd? Kill as many as you can.
You give the TWRA too much credit.... sarcasm! During the 2007 EHD outbreak and the following 2007 and 2008 hunting season, the TWRA left the WMA in Unit L and allowed the 3 antler less deer a day, several of us hunters begged the powers to be at the time to close the place down after the 2007 season and let NO hunting take place until appropriate recovery had taken place. We were told "oh there only 25-30% die off". Then they said "well probably 50-60% die off", finally, one of the chief biologist who is no longer with the agency admitted that it was probably 90%.
But they allowed antlerless harvest for the two hunting seasons following the outbreak and deer vanished along with all of the hunter interest.
shame, shame, shame.
But they allowed antlerless harvest for the two hunting seasons following the outbreak and deer vanished along with all of the hunter interest.
shame, shame, shame.
