EHD in Perry County

[TNRAMBLINGMAN]

Lease I am on in Perry County was devasted by EHD this year. bucks 3.5 and older almost non existent. All deer numbers down dramatically. Will take years to recover.

I have heard of a local processor in that area who has closed permanently due to the lack of business this year.

What has your experience been? And has TWRA commented on EHD in the various counties this year?

 

[Ski]

Very sorry to hear that. I'll stop complaining about the neighbors shooting anything that walks. I've never had to deal with it before, but have heard the horror stories. I hope your herd has a quick recovery.

 

[GRIT]

Southern Perry?

 

[tnanh]

TWRA is very aware the area was hit hard with ehd but still doe limit is three a day. Senseless. Should have issued a proclamation months ago reducing it to one or two does per hunter at most for the year. In their poor management they will wait several years and say oh crap, we need to change unit L limits. Always a dollar late and a proclamation short. Someone will say they cant do this after seasons have already been set but they can and should. Perry, Hickman and Lewis harvest were down 48%. For the year a week or two ago and game wardens have talked about ehd in Perry County since August.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Perry and Hickman got hit hard. I, as well as many others on here, have discussed this in other threads. Just search EHD and you'll find a lot for Perry and Hickman.

Same as you...basically around 70+ percent of our 3.5 and older bucks are gone

Where in Perry are you? I heard one landowner in Perry with 1500 acres that found over 70 dead...that's unfathomable

Surely TWRA could make some type of amendment from year to year to halt doe harvests in certain areas where EHD is strong

 

[DoubleRidge]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

 

[poorhunter]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

I'm sure if it were important enough to spend the time and money we could figure something out, but not now. Tough to inoculate or treat a wild herd. I don't know a lot about it, but it seems that drought in late summer is a factor as it concentrates where deer get water. Plus the deer herd does recover "fairly" quickly in a couple years. I wasn't here (Hickman) when the last bad outbreak happened but the recovery did come. One difference would be that the overall population was considerably more back at the last outbreak than it was this past summer. I live in Hickman and drive to Lewis County for work every day and I haven't seen a deer on that 30 mile drive but once since Thanksgiving. I know there are still deer, but the way it looks now it may take 5 years to get close to this past summers numbers.

 

[MickThompson]

There are issues with some sort of inoculation- the relatively quick turnover in the deer herd, the expense to set up an effort to get it I contact with the deer, and the expense to make sure such a product is safe for humans- after all, a significant number are going into someone's freezer less than 6 months after treatment. There's also no way to predict where EHD will hit from year to year, or whether it will even hit that year. How much of TWRA's annual budget are you willing to spend on such a program? If it costs $100/deer to inoculate (probably close when you figure bait sites, manpower, equipment, etc), you'd be at $7.5 mill per year (roughly 10% of TWRAs annual budget) to inoculate 10% of the estimated 750,000 deer in the state, and a 90% chance that a deer that contacts EHD didn't get treated. That's not money well spent.

Deer are wild animals and wild animals will have up years and down years just like every other species. It's just part of the way the natural system works.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

I'm sure if it were important enough to spend the time and money we could figure something out, but not now. Tough to inoculate or treat a wild herd. I don't know a lot about it, but it seems that drought in late summer is a factor as it concentrates where deer get water. Plus the deer herd does recover "fairly" quickly in a couple years. I wasn't here (Hickman) when the last bad outbreak happened but the recovery did come. One difference would be that the overall population was considerably more back at the last outbreak than it was this past summer. I live in Hickman and drive to Lewis County for work every day and I haven't seen a deer on that 30 mile drive but once since Thanksgiving. I know there are still deer, but the way it looks now it may take 5 years to get close to this past summers numbers.

Also curious about why certain areas get hit harder than others? Is it due too the availability of water?..so during drought conditions the deer are more concentrated around available water...in turn more are exposed to the midge fly? Just thinking out loud.

Hope the herd bounces back....I've read those that survive ehd develop an immunity to the disease ....if that's true hopefully this will help in the recovery.

 

[poorhunter]

So in Hickman County there's water everywhere with springs and running creeks all over the place, so I don't think it's a lack of water. I would guess there is something associated with drought conditions that favor the midge life cycle positively. Also, animals just go through cycles for various reasons...unfortunately when the midge population goes up the deer population goes down. I've heard there are some deer that die every year from EHD, just worse in some years like this year.

 

[DoubleRidge]

So in Hickman County there's water everywhere with springs and running creeks all over the place, so I don't think it's a lack of water. I would guess there is something associated with drought conditions that favor the midge life cycle positively. Also, animals just go through cycles for various reasons...unfortunately when the midge population goes up the deer population goes down. I've heard there are some deer that die every year from EHD, just worse in some years like this year.

I've been told the same thing ....that every year a percentage of deer die from EHD.....hate it, but like you said....guess these things go through cycles.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

A small percentage die every year from EHD, though some years are worse than others. The last bad one we had in our specific area was in 2007 - another late summer drought year. From then until now, we haven't seen much, if any, loss in deer from year to year. It is just nature's way of controlling the herd. It sucks, but that's part of it.

 

[tnanh]

There are issues with some sort of inoculation- the relatively quick turnover in the deer herd, the expense to set up an effort to get it I contact with the deer, and the expense to make sure such a product is safe for humans- after all, a significant number are going into someone's freezer less than 6 months after treatment. There's also no way to predict where EHD will hit from year to year, or whether it will even hit that year. How much of TWRA's annual budget are you willing to spend on such a program? If it costs $100/deer to inoculate (probably close when you figure bait sites, manpower, equipment, etc), you'd be at $7.5 mill per year (roughly 10% of TWRAs annual budget) to inoculate 10% of the estimated 750,000 deer in the state, and a 90% chance that a deer that contacts EHD didn't get treated. That's not money well spent.

Deer are wild animals and wild animals will have up years and down years just like every other species. It's just part of the way the natural system works.

I agree with all of you especially this one. The only reasonable and affordable thing in my non expert opinion that can be done is to manage for these things as TWRA is supposed to. Just like they can shut turkey or deer season down when the rivers flood they need to manage for something like EHD. This is not the first outbreak or will it be the last. They knew this year ehd was bad in certain areas before deer season opened. They should have and could have changed the legal harvest. There is no way Perry county needs to have a three doe a day limit right now. Not even three a year. One or two does is plenty right now for an entire deer season. The private land doe only hunt in January should also be canceled, period. TWRA and individual game wardens knew back in July EHD had hit these counties hard and did absolutely nothing. My understanding is it hit all of perry but my personal knowledge is areas north of Linden. Had TWRA reacted early the only financial concern would have probably been license sales for this year. Now, they have to be concerned about that for several subsequent years. We cant do a lot about ehd outbreaks but this would help tremendously.

 

[DoubleRidge]

There are issues with some sort of inoculation- the relatively quick turnover in the deer herd, the expense to set up an effort to get it I contact with the deer, and the expense to make sure such a product is safe for humans- after all, a significant number are going into someone's freezer less than 6 months after treatment. There's also no way to predict where EHD will hit from year to year, or whether it will even hit that year. How much of TWRA's annual budget are you willing to spend on such a program? If it costs $100/deer to inoculate (probably close when you figure bait sites, manpower, equipment, etc), you'd be at $7.5 mill per year (roughly 10% of TWRAs annual budget) to inoculate 10% of the estimated 750,000 deer in the state, and a 90% chance that a deer that contacts EHD didn't get treated. That's not money well spent.

Deer are wild animals and wild animals will have up years and down years just like every other species. It's just part of the way the natural system works.

Oh I totally agree that trying to treat a wild deer herd would not be smart money spent.....my original questions were more geared towards is there anything we could do as land managers to help prevent an outbreak or reduce it's effects....any habit improvements or anything? Maybe a bit of a pipe dream...was just curious.

And I agree....they are wild animals and it's just part of how nature works.

 

[MickThompson]

There are issues with some sort of inoculation- the relatively quick turnover in the deer herd, the expense to set up an effort to get it I contact with the deer, and the expense to make sure such a product is safe for humans- after all, a significant number are going into someone's freezer less than 6 months after treatment. There's also no way to predict where EHD will hit from year to year, or whether it will even hit that year. How much of TWRA's annual budget are you willing to spend on such a program? If it costs $100/deer to inoculate (probably close when you figure bait sites, manpower, equipment, etc), you'd be at $7.5 mill per year (roughly 10% of TWRAs annual budget) to inoculate 10% of the estimated 750,000 deer in the state, and a 90% chance that a deer that contacts EHD didn't get treated. That's not money well spent.

Deer are wild animals and wild animals will have up years and down years just like every other species. It's just part of the way the natural system works.

Oh I totally agree that trying to treat a wild deer herd would not be smart money spent.....my original questions were more geared towards is there anything we could do as land managers to help prevent an outbreak or reduce it's effects....any habit improvements or anything? Maybe a bit of a pipe dream...was just curious.

And I agree....they are wild animals and it's just part of how nature works.

I definitely think you can mitigate to some extent by maximizing nutrition and minimizing stress. It should result in better immunity and higher birth rates to offset the losses. It's why areas with lots of diversity rebound quicker than heavily forested areas.

 

[gunrunner]

I hunt in Williamson county not far from the Hickman county line.This is my 10th year to hunt the lease.In the last 9 years I averaged 2 good bucks and 2 does per year.I could count on seeing 6 to 10 deer every hunt.This year I have not seen a shootable buck and only a few small bucks and does.I have not found any dead ones.The property is fairly small so they could have died on adjoining property.I have not heard many shots around me either.EHD seems to be the only logical answer.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

The TWRA has done nothing about the deer population plummeting in my county, I wouldnt expect them to do anything in yours either.


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[DoubleRidge]

There are issues with some sort of inoculation- the relatively quick turnover in the deer herd, the expense to set up an effort to get it I contact with the deer, and the expense to make sure such a product is safe for humans- after all, a significant number are going into someone's freezer less than 6 months after treatment. There's also no way to predict where EHD will hit from year to year, or whether it will even hit that year. How much of TWRA's annual budget are you willing to spend on such a program? If it costs $100/deer to inoculate (probably close when you figure bait sites, manpower, equipment, etc), you'd be at $7.5 mill per year (roughly 10% of TWRAs annual budget) to inoculate 10% of the estimated 750,000 deer in the state, and a 90% chance that a deer that contacts EHD didn't get treated. That's not money well spent.

Deer are wild animals and wild animals will have up years and down years just like every other species. It's just part of the way the natural system works.

Oh I totally agree that trying to treat a wild deer herd would not be smart money spent.....my original questions were more geared towards is there anything we could do as land managers to help prevent an outbreak or reduce it's effects....any habit improvements or anything? Maybe a bit of a pipe dream...was just curious.

And I agree....they are wild animals and it's just part of how nature works.

I definitely think you can mitigate to some extent by maximizing nutrition and minimizing stress. It should result in better immunity and higher birth rates to offset the losses. It's why areas with lots of diversity rebound quicker than heavily forested areas.

Thanks....makes sense.....I hadn't thought about it from this angle..... Seems like the most reasonable approach.
We're not going to stop EHD.....but managing for a healthy herd may help lessen the effects.

 

[MickThompson]

Total herd health vs treating a symptom.

 

[catman529]

TWRA is very aware the area was hit hard with ehd but still doe limit is three a day. Senseless. Should have issued a proclamation months ago reducing it to one or two does per hunter at most for the year. In their poor management they will wait several years and say oh crap, we need to change unit L limits. Always a dollar late and a proclamation short. Someone will say they cant do this after seasons have already been set but they can and should. Perry, Hickman and Lewis harvest were down 48%. For the year a week or two ago and game wardens have talked about ehd in Perry County since August.

they would have to close certain parts of the counties since not everywhere got hit bad. It's up to us as hunters to be responsible and not shoot does when the herd has taken such a hit. With the low number of deer I would think most people would quit hunting for the year due to lack of sightings.


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[catman529]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

biting midges, aka no-see-ums are everywhere, some areas there are a lot more than others. Like mosquitoes, they can reproduce in very small amounts of water so they don't even need a creek or pond to thrive.

What I learned from Daryl (BigGameGuy) is that EHD outbreaks are basically a natural cycle in the deer world... the survivors of an outbreak have a genetic immunity or resistance to the disease, so as they repopulate, the herd will have more resistance to EHD allowing the population to rebound and thrive for years. But over time, the genetic resistance will decrease in the herd due to a very diverse gene pool in wild deer populations, and eventually they will have another outbreak.

I may not be 100% right, but I'm saying in my own words what I remember learning from BGG. He knows his stuff


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[poorhunter]

TWRA is very aware the area was hit hard with ehd but still doe limit is three a day. Senseless. Should have issued a proclamation months ago reducing it to one or two does per hunter at most for the year. In their poor management they will wait several years and say oh crap, we need to change unit L limits. Always a dollar late and a proclamation short. Someone will say they cant do this after seasons have already been set but they can and should. Perry, Hickman and Lewis harvest were down 48%. For the year a week or two ago and game wardens have talked about ehd in Perry County since August.

they would have to close certain parts of the counties since not everywhere got hit bad. It's up to us as hunters to be responsible and not shoot does when the herd has taken such a hit. With the low number of deer I would think most people would quit hunting for the year due to lack of sightings.


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Oh how I wish the hunting population had enough sense to stop killing does in hard hit by EHD areas.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

biting midges, aka no-see-ums are everywhere, some areas there are a lot more than others. Like mosquitoes, they can reproduce in very small amounts of water so they don't even need a creek or pond to thrive.

What I learned from Daryl (BigGameGuy) is that EHD outbreaks are basically a natural cycle in the deer world... the survivors of an outbreak have a genetic immunity or resistance to the disease, so as they repopulate, the herd will have more resistance to EHD allowing the population to rebound and thrive for years. But over time, the genetic resistance will decrease in the herd due to a very diverse gene pool in wild deer populations, and eventually they will have another outbreak.

I may not be 100% right, but I'm saying in my own words what I remember learning from BGG. He knows his stuff


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Interesting information....thanks for sharing...... hopefully the deer that survive will build resistance and people in the hardest hit areas will lay off the does.

 

[catman529]

Most likely a stupid question but is there anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood of an EHD oubreak? I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is No....just curious where does the midge fly come from? And are there any known habitat improvements that could be beneficial to reducing an outbreak?

Just wonder what type EHD studies have been conducted and if there are any recommendations for prevention....wishful thinking I guess.

biting midges, aka no-see-ums are everywhere, some areas there are a lot more than others. Like mosquitoes, they can reproduce in very small amounts of water so they don't even need a creek or pond to thrive.

What I learned from Daryl (BigGameGuy) is that EHD outbreaks are basically a natural cycle in the deer world... the survivors of an outbreak have a genetic immunity or resistance to the disease, so as they repopulate, the herd will have more resistance to EHD allowing the population to rebound and thrive for years. But over time, the genetic resistance will decrease in the herd due to a very diverse gene pool in wild deer populations, and eventually they will have another outbreak.

I may not be 100% right, but I'm saying in my own words what I remember learning from BGG. He knows his stuff


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Interesting information....thanks for sharing...... hopefully the deer that survive will build resistance and people in the hardest hit areas will lay off the does.

most of the survivors already have a resistance... that's why they survived


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[13pt]

I rarely post anything, but enjoy reading these threads on occasion. I feel compelled to say a few things having hunted just NW of Linden in Perry County this season after this catastrophic event. This will be nothing new to those of you who have suffered a similar loss, but if you've never hunted after losing 70-75% of your deer herd then grab a tissue and lend an ear.

I managed nearly 4,000 for 9 years where we imposed trophy rules and kept our membership down enough that everyone could have nearly 300 acres to themselves. It's been a great ride as we've taken 3 state records, and have had guys take 1-2 trophies every single year! We kept the lease lit up with Reconyx cameras, and in any given year would have 10-15 bucks with an age estimation between 4.5 and about to die of old age! Most of these bucks typically ranged the same area and we had most of them named. What a wonderful place to hunt knowing you could pass up a younger buck and know he would very likely be waiting for you next year. Our population has been strong, and personally use to seeing an average of 10-15 deer every time out. I've seen as many as 8 bucks chasing one doe in early December one year, though that's highly unusual...you get the point.

Fast forward to this year. Deployed over 20 cameras in late July and did our first check Labor Day weekend. Typically, the number of pics we would expect over 4 weeks ranged from 130K - 150K each year. This year we just happened to leave them out 5 weeks and barely had over 50K (each one set up on mineral licks established for many years). I immediately called the game warden and asked what the heck is going on. His response...it was the first of him hearing of such a thing and to hang there that they would probably come back! Seriously, then explain why they all left this year. Ok, I didn't ask him that, but it was my first thought and felt my intelligence had been insulted. Well, needless to say the numbers never rebounded because they all died of EHD. And how does the game warden not know that by early September?? It's been a horrific hunting season to say the least. Some of our hunters never even came in to hunt after hearing of the apocalypse. For whatever reason our doe herd was decimated! It seemed most all of the 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks survived. There's no doubt (having run cameras up until last weekend) our buck to doe ratio is something like 2 bucks to every doe, and the total loss must be in the 75% range! Last Saturday morning we had 6 hunters in their primary stands all morning and 4 of them seen one deer each...OMG! This was a Red Moon weekend during what should be the 2nd rut, and between 6 hunters there should have been 40-60 deer seen! The game warden stopped by during our big juvenile hunt weekend, and I reminded him of my call back in early September when I told him it seemed we had lost over 1/2 our deer herd. He quickly replied, "No, you've lost about 60% of your deer herd to EHD"! I was at least relieved to know they were no longer in the dark (or hiding the facts). Our local deer processor (who has officially closed their doors permanently in part due to this years epic disaster after being in business 18 years), told me this last Saturday when I picked up a deer that the regional TWRA director told her this last week their latest survey indicates a 70-75% loss, and the counties of Perry and Hickman appear to be the hardest hit by far. She stated he told her it could take up to 8 years to fully recover due to the doe herd being hit so hard. That seems a little dramatic, but just repeating what she told me. The silver lining is the road hunters have even given up this year so we didn't have to deal with them...lol.

Well, I'll wrap it up by saying it was a great run for 9 years! I've pulled out all my stands and took down all our posted signs this weekend...we're done! Not sticking around for this long haul recovery. My heart goes out to all of you hit hardest by EHD. I feel the best you can do is ignore the statewide bag limits and just don't kill any of your herd until you see it approaching normal levels again. Good luck and wishing you a fast recovery!!!

P.S. You might want to think twice before leasing any property in these counties for at least a couple of years.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

13pt - I hear your concerns. We are in the same general area directly in between Linden and Centerville (NW of Linden), but closer towards Centerville and in Hickman. We have observed basically the same. Quite a few does and fawns, and mostly all the bucks seen and on cam are 1.5's and 2.5's....but not very many of them. I did pass on one 3.5, and have pics of a 4.5 and a 5.5, but that's it on 620 acres....We will typically have close to ten seen or on camera. So, it is a significant drop for sure.

I wouldn't hang it up though....8 years is a very drastic prediction for recovery. I would give it 2-3 years. Best of luck

 

[RobbyW]

TWRA ask people to report findings. I wonder how many people do.

I reported a small buck this year. The record what county so I assume they are collecting stats.

When you report they send this email:


Thank you for letting us know about the dead deer you observed on your property in Dickson County. Most likely these deer are suffering from EHD (epizootic hemorrhagic disease), similar to the blue tongue virus in cattle. We have had several reports of the disease in several counties of middle Tennessee.

EHD is a normal, naturally occurring disease and is the most common white-tailed deer disease in the eastern U.S. It is not always fatal and deer that recover will have acquired immunity. It is a virus carried by a biting midge (no see-ums) that breeds in the mud around shrinking water sources during drought summers. Deer congregate around water during drought conditions and midge numbers are at their highest in late summer. Affected deer with high fever will also get in water to cool themselves. All these circumstances facilitate the spread of EHD. With the first hard frost, the midges die-off and the disease will stop spreading.

EHD causes internal hemorrhaging, sores in the mouth, loss of appetite, fever and sloughing of hooves. Usually sick, dying or dead deer are found in or near water due to the fever.

A few cases show up every summer but when the conditions are right, hot with long periods without rain, EHD can locally impact populations due to mortality.

Thank you for taking the time to notify us.

 

[RobbyW]

I would encourage people to report every one they find.

 

[tnanh]

TWRA is very aware the area was hit hard with ehd but still doe limit is three a day. Senseless. Should have issued a proclamation months ago reducing it to one or two does per hunter at most for the year. In their poor management they will wait several years and say oh crap, we need to change unit L limits. Always a dollar late and a proclamation short. Someone will say they cant do this after seasons have already been set but they can and should. Perry, Hickman and Lewis harvest were down 48%. For the year a week or two ago and game wardens have talked about ehd in Perry County since August.

they would have to close certain parts of the counties since not everywhere got hit bad. It's up to us as hunters to be responsible and not shoot does when the herd has taken such a hit. With the low number of deer I would think most people would quit hunting for the year due to lack of sightings.


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Oh how I wish the hunting population had enough sense to stop killing does in hard hit by EHD areas.

I agree. I have a small piece of property with four of us hunting it. We have killed 1 deer (doe) all year and will probably not hunt it any more.

 

[XXL]

There are a lot of us in the same boat. Years of management and dollars, gone. It will take years to recover but we are staying put. Our lease which typically harvest 10-12 deer a year (3-4 mature bucks and few freezer does) hung a zero this year. We decided immediately to not take any does and let all the marginal bucks go as we would need them the next couple of years to stay interested. We have still enjoyed a lot of camp fires and this weekend I noticed things from the stand I never would have before. After the initial shock wore off I have new perspective. At the end of the day if I can hang with my buddies and rebuild a property that has given so much, I'm ok with that. We will try to create the best habitat possible. Take every predator we can(although their numbers are greatly reduced also). Anybody else have any good ideas on how to speed up recovery?