Does legality overshadow ethics?

[Smoke]

Gonna ruffle some feathers here but so be it. Not wanting to single out any person or any act but just something i argue with other people i know that might spur some good thinking. Just because something is legal, does that make it right? For instance i know some guys that will shoot every small spike they see so they can check it in as a doe but brag on another buck they've killed. Entirely legal, but is it right. How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot. Easy to do with our check in system and perfectly legal on private land but once again is it right? Some peoples minds will never be changed but i hope more people will venture out of the old "its legal" excuse and start thinking was it right. What do we want to pass on to the next generation of hunters, whats legal or whats right?

 

[deerhunter10]

first off i would never shoot a fawn. im to some people the bad kind of hunter im a "trophy hunter" with that being said i still shoot a few does and I don't knock anyone that kills a deer. I just keep my mouth shut its there hunt there land and there decision not mine. that's all about preference and its tough to say what is right in some people's eyes is wrong in others. I agree with you legality does over shadow ethics a lot because people think if it is legal then it must be ethical. to some it may to some it may not be. when all said and done the person that does the act is ultimately the one that must live with it. and it is there call on rather they think its right or wrong.

 

[nick2720]

I'll be the first to say I'd never shoot a fawn . Not my cup of tea. I think age and experience has a lot to do with how people act when hunting. Also who showed them how to hunt. I was brought up to pass on doe and wait for the reward. And it pays off. Me personally can't stand when people parade around with yearlings. Public perspective means a lot when it comes to funding and protecting our privilege to hunt. Its not a right its a privilege we are blessed with and some do take advantage of it and it can be taken away. When youngsters are out I don't see a problem shooting a spike for a first deer just to get them started. But there are a lot of people who kill just to be killing something. I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one. I think as a hunter it takes a lot more poise not to shoot a deer right under the stand instead of shooting 20 deer in 2 weeks. Just my opinion I'm sure some will get butt hurt but its how I feel. Its ridiculous shooting a 30-40 lb deer ... are you really that desperate to shoot something. Well for me no and I never will.

 

[RUGER]

How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot. Easy to do with our check in system and perfectly legal on private land but once again is it right?

I don't think that particular issue is "perfectly legal".

 

[TNGunsmoke]

How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot.

Ever hear of Wanton Waste? This is against the law.

 

[UTGrad]

I won't shoot fawns but that's just me.

 

[Smoke]

How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot.

Ever hear of Wanton Waste? This is against the law.

That law only applies to WMAs if i remember correctly

 

[nick2720]

O and this new check in procedure is crap. Using an app to check in a deer. Well how will you stop neighbor Joe from shooting 6 huge bucks on his private land if all hes checking in is 6 doe. I know its not legal buy like stated ethics are what a lot of hunters lack. Some are crooks tresspassers poachers and will do illegal stuff. Now they don't even have to go to a gas station to tag it in. Just get on the interweb. Just makes it easier to poach

 

[nick2720]

Yeah I think farmers who shoot to protect crops have to leave them laying

How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot.

Ever hear of Wanton Waste? This is against the law.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I agree, legal is not always ethical or sportsmanlike.

 

[scn]

How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot.

Ever hear of Wanton Waste? This is against the law.

That law only applies to WMAs if i remember correctly

Correct.

 

[scn]

Gonna ruffle some feathers here but so be it. Not wanting to single out any person or any act but just something i argue with other people i know that might spur some good thinking. Just because something is legal, does that make it right? For instance i know some guys that will shoot every small spike they see so they can check it in as a doe but brag on another buck they've killed. Entirely legal, but is it right. How about going out and shooting every legal deer you can take and leave it laying there to rot. Easy to do with our check in system and perfectly legal on private land but once again is it right? Some peoples minds will never be changed but i hope more people will venture out of the old "its legal" excuse and start thinking was it right. What do we want to pass on to the next generation of hunters, whats legal or whats right?

If you are referring to bucks with under 3" of antler, they are checked as antlerless deer. Otherwise the practice you cite is not legal.

 

[Dbllunger]

I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one.

A fully mature doe (four plus years) is incredibly elusive. I think as much or more than a mature buck. I think a lot of mature bucks get that way because they are simply loners and mostly nocturnal. Mature does get that way because they are unbelievably aware of their surroundings. I wouldn't write off does as being stupid.

 

[Smoke]

Like i said, i didn't start this to point out anybody or any specific act. I just want to make you think.

 

[Gravey]

Big difference in being legal and being ethical. Let's take fawns for example...some shoot and some don't. Personally I have done it before but not one with spots that I recall. I won't do it now intentionally and I think its just maturing as a hunter. At this point in my life I just don't care to do it.

 

[easy45]

No, just because its legal does not make it right, I think farmers killing hundreds of deer during the summer and letting them rot is horrible but it's perfectly legal with the right permits. I don't agree with killing a fawn, wouldn't ever do it myself but if you kill it and eat it then that is way down on my list of things I don't like. As far as a guy killing bucks and checking g them in as does, odds are he would still kill them, he just wouldn't check them in at all, most employees at the check-in stations don't come look at the deer anyway, you could tell them anything. Another topic that has been posted is about a landowner not letting you get a deer, personally I think they should have too as long as you are accompanied by a LEO and the landowner

 

[Urban_Hunter]

As far as a guy killing bucks and checking g them in as does, odds are he would still kill them, he just wouldn't check them in at all, most employees at the check-in stations don't come look at the deer anyway, you could tell them anything. Another topic that has been posted is about a landowner not letting you get a deer, personally I think they should have too as long as you are accompanied by a LEO and the landowner

I'm with this. The check-in rules are just to make it easier on us that follow the rules. Those who don't are likely not checking them in at all.

As for the fawn... I don't believe there are any ethics in question. I have seen two people so far kill a fawn, both of whom intend to make full use of them on the dinner table. I'm not sure what your argument would be. It would be bigger next year? Next year it may have been eaten by yotes, hit by a car, or relocated to never be seen again. I'm lucky enough to see numerous deer throughout the year and enough opportunities to pass on smaller deer. If I didn't have that luxury then I would likely shoot every deer I saw to fill my freezer.

I see deer every year with the heads cut off and the rest just laying in a ditch. I bet this happens exponentially more than fawns being killed. With ethics in question... throwing away meat to put a trophy on the wall should be more concerning... not what someone else does to put food on the table.

 

[pressfit]

Some people actually like to eat a nice young deer.. come to think of it.. I dont EVER remember anyone specifically telling me if I kill a old 5-6 year old deer that they wanted it.. I couldnt count on both hands and feet how many time some one has told me.. now if you kill young-un... i'd like to have it...

 

[nick2720]

What meat comes off a 25 lb deer. And the one guy shot his BC he saw other bones post and decided then to kill whatever he saw. Dedicated to the other guy. That's just killing to kill nothing about providing a freezer full of meat. Hell I'd rather go to a hunters for the hungry and get donated deer than shoot a twenty five pound fawn. And then make a joke about how little meat you get off it. It ain't about hunting and putting food on table its killing to them and that is ethics

 

[DirtyBear0311]

What meat comes off a 25 lb deer. And the one guy shot his BC he saw other bones post and decided then to kill whatever he saw. Dedicated to the other guy. That's just killing to kill nothing about providing a freezer full of meat. Hell I'd rather go to a hunters for the hungry and get donated deer than shoot a twenty five pound fawn. And then make a joke about how little meat you get off it. It ain't about hunting and putting food on table its killing to them and that is ethics

Who are you to say what someones elses intentions are? If I were to kill a spot, I would thank God for providing me with a bit of meat to feed my family. A weeks worth of dinner meat is still a weeks worth of meat that dont otherwise have to be bought. On that note, i'll celebrate any deer I kill and will not feel ashamed of it. If you dont agree, then dont do it but dont knock those that do and dont pretend to know their motives and intentions behind doing it.

 

[nick2720]

Its just funny for what 1 broad head and gas cost etc. Any family of 4 could get store bought meat for half the cost... but anyways its an open forum and that's my opinion. I don't think he killed a fawn to feed his family to have food

 

[catman529]

if you want deer meat then shooting a fawn is perfectly ethical assuming the shot is placed well and it's legal. Deer meat doesn't get much better than fawns. if you want to shoot a bunch of nub bucks and check them in as does, then that's fine too, only problem there is if you are hunting land managed for bucks, in which case you are in the wrong to kill the nubs where people want them to grow. If you kill deer and leave them to rot then your kill is going to waste and that is wrong. I think preference defines some people's ethics, but we can all agree on a few things - take an ethical shot, don't let the meat go to waste, and follow the law...

 

[tailchaser]

No ,just just because its legal does not mean its right,also just because something is illegal don't mean its wrong.

 

[catman529]

Its just funny for what 1 broad head and gas cost etc. Any family of 4 could get store bought meat for half the cost... but anyways its an open forum and that's my opinion. I don't think he killed a fawn to feed his family to have food

not sure who you are talking about since I didnt read the whole thread but yes you can get store bought meat cheap but also deer meat is a lot healthier and if you are frugal with hunting gear and kill a lot of deer you can actually save money on meat. my family loves deer meat especially the fawns and younger deer.

 

[Bone Collector]

I'll be the first to say I'd never shoot a fawn . Not my cup of tea. I think age and experience has a lot to do with how people act when hunting. Also who showed them how to hunt. I was brought up to pass on doe and wait for the reward. And it pays off. Me personally can't stand when people parade around with yearlings. Public perspective means a lot when it comes to funding and protecting our privilege to hunt. Its not a right its a privilege we are blessed with and some do take advantage of it and it can be taken away. When youngsters are out I don't see a problem shooting a spike for a first deer just to get them started. But there are a lot of people who kill just to be killing something. I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one. I think as a hunter it takes a lot more poise not to shoot a deer right under the stand instead of shooting 20 deer in 2 weeks. Just my opinion I'm sure some will get butt hurt but its how I feel. Its ridiculous shooting a 30-40 lb deer ... are you really that desperate to shoot something. Well for me no and I never will.

This is the old Trophy hunter vs. Meat hunter debate with a different approach. WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS SHOOT??? Ease does not make it unethical, nor does it make it unrewarding. Maybe to you it does, but not everyone.

FYI I'm about 100% sure we passed the Right to hunt and fish in this state a few years back 93% for to 7% against, so it is a right to hunt so long as you keep it legal and follow the law.

Last year I shot 3 bucks for the first time ever and one was 1 1/2 yrs old. I also passed several in between the first and the last, and it had nothing to do with poise, constraint, ethics, or skill, it was just my choice to do so.

 

[nick2720]

No it wasn't you it was the other guy. He dedicated his kill to you. And its hard to say you can save money by killing a bunch of deer. Majority just use it as an excuse to kill something then take it to processor and that's fine because you can donate it but most people put a lot of money in gear leases weapons transportation etc. It'd take a long time to save money. Like I've said before shoot a 150 pound buck for y'all that would be like killing 6 fawns. And tastes better reason... well most people I know marinade deer to make it tender.. just all differences in opinions.

 

[MattR]

I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one.

A fully mature doe (four plus years) is incredibly elusive. I think as much or more than a mature buck. I think a lot of mature bucks get that way because they are simply loners and mostly nocturnal. Mature does get that way because they are unbelievably aware of their surroundings. I wouldn't write off does as being stupid.

Mature does are definately smart. They will bust your butt quick if you mess up. One busted me last Saturday and I swear I think if it would of been a buck he would of been dead. I don't know what I did wrong but she didnt like something

 

[nick2720]

If its a right how can they take that away. That's why I say its a privilege. Prisoners still have rights even when arrested or in jail. But your license can be pulled like it or not. I may be totally wrong but that's how I think of it. And this is a discussion where no one is right its all opinionated. And I expressed mine. I may make people not like me but o well I may not like people for what they put on here. There's no right or wrong just opinions. And in this case if is controversial BC a lot of people think it is not ethical or it wouldn't even be a topic people would just write it off.

I'll be the first to say I'd never shoot a fawn . Not my cup of tea. I think age and experience has a lot to do with how people act when hunting. Also who showed them how to hunt. I was brought up to pass on doe and wait for the reward. And it pays off. Me personally can't stand when people parade around with yearlings. Public perspective means a lot when it comes to funding and protecting our privilege to hunt. Its not a right its a privilege we are blessed with and some do take advantage of it and it can be taken away. When youngsters are out I don't see a problem shooting a spike for a first deer just to get them started. But there are a lot of people who kill just to be killing something. I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one. I think as a hunter it takes a lot more poise not to shoot a deer right under the stand instead of shooting 20 deer in 2 weeks. Just my opinion I'm sure some will get butt hurt but its how I feel. Its ridiculous shooting a 30-40 lb deer ... are you really that desperate to shoot something. Well for me no and I never will.

This is the old Trophy hunter vs. Meat hunter debate with a different approach. WHO CARES WHAT OTHERS SHOOT??? Ease does not make it unethical, nor does it make it unrewarding. Maybe to you it does, but not everyone.

FYI I'm about 100% sure we passed the Right to hunt and fish in this state a few years back 93% for to 7% against, so it is a right to hunt so long as you keep it legal and follow the law.

Last year I shot 3 bucks for the first time ever and one was 1 1/2 yrs old. I also passed several in between the first and the last, and it had nothing to do with poise, constraint, ethics, or skill, it was just my choice to do so.

 

[Bone Collector]

I like the challenge of finding a mature buck . Doe and fawns are a dime a dozen just not really a challenge so where is the incentive to want to shoot one.

A fully mature doe (four plus years) is incredibly elusive. I think as much or more than a mature buck. I think a lot of mature bucks get that way because they are simply loners and mostly nocturnal. Mature does get that way because they are unbelievably aware of their surroundings. I wouldn't write off does as being stupid.

Mature does are definately smart. They will bust your butt quick if you mess up. One busted me last Saturday and I swear I think if it would of been a buck he would of been dead. I don't know what I did wrong but she didnt like something

Ditto! had this happen a couple of times to me.

 

[MattR]

if you want deer meat then shooting a fawn is perfectly ethical assuming the shot is placed well and it's legal. Deer meat doesn't get much better than fawns. if you want to shoot a bunch of nub bucks and check them in as does, then that's fine too, only problem there is if you are hunting land managed for bucks, in which case you are in the wrong to kill the nubs where people want them to grow. If you kill deer and leave them to rot then your kill is going to waste and that is wrong. I think preference defines some people's ethics, but we can all agree on a few things - take an ethical shot, don't let the meat go to waste, and follow the law...

Very well said.