Disappointed

[rsimms]

Disappointed... Pretty sure this is the 7-point I saw several times last year. I expected MUCH more out of him this year. A 7 again, barely.

Oh well!

 

[fairchaser]

I've seen this many times. In fact, I believe most buck's rack don't change much year to year. I think once they reach 3.5 or 4.5, their racks are pretty much done. The ones that keep adding inches and points are the rare exceptions.

 

[ZachMarkus]

I've seen this many times. In fact, I believe most buck's rack don't change much year to year. I think once they reach 3.5 or 4.5, their racks are pretty much done. The ones that keep adding inches and points are the rare exceptions.

That has not been my experience at all. A lot of the bucks I photograph that are lucky enough to make it make a substantial jump from 3.5-4.5. The problem around here is getting a buck to live past 3.5.

 

[BSK]

Disappointed... Pretty sure this is the 7-point I saw several times last year. I expected MUCH more out of him this year. A 7 again, barely.

Just goes to exemplify the variations of Nature. Some bucks "have it" and some don't. I've definitely seen bucks that never improve much beyond 3 1/2. Then I've seen those that explode after 3 1/2. Nature gets around to trying everything.

 

[akachuck]

Be grateful , I don't see them on my property as much as you do. still a good looking deer

 

[Andy S.]

I see this same thing year after year with a lot of bucks. I want/expect 10-20% increase in gross inches and many times they stay the same, generally speaking, and may even lose a little. It happens, more than we want to believe/accept.

 

[Andy S.]

Just goes to exemplify the variations of Nature. Some bucks "have it" and some don't.

For sure. And more times than not, the ones that "have it" are gunned down at 2.5/3.5, and never have the opportunity to fully express their antler potential at 5.5+.

 

[Mr.Bro]

I agree with fairchaser,BSK, and others. Many nice 8 and 10pointers i see and think they will be shooters next year? Well i never see them again. Thats not the case. I see them just dont recognize them as being the 3 or 4 year ols buck that just aint never going to get much bigger.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

That has not been my experience at all. A lot of the bucks I photograph that are lucky enough to make it make a substantial jump from 3.5-4.5. The problem around here is getting a buck to live past 3.5.

Agreed. In our area, most bucks greatly improve from 3.5 to 4.5. It's just getting them to that 3.5 threshold and older

 

[BSK]

For sure. And more times than not, the ones that "have it" are gunned down at 2.5/3.5, and never have the opportunity to fully express their antler potential at 5.5+.

Absolutely true. In fact, ever since I began emphasizing this to my clients (protecting the best 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks), they started producing far more top-end mature bucks.

 

[BSK]

Average antler gross score increase:

1 1/2 to 2 1/2 - 100%
2 1/2 to 3 1/2 - 25%
3 1/2 to 4 1/2 - 15%
4 1/2 to 5 1/2 - 5%

 

[tree_ghost]

Average antler gross score increase:

1 1/2 to 2 1/2 - 100%
2 1/2 to 3 1/2 - 25%
3 1/2 to 4 1/2 - 15%
4 1/2 to 5 1/2 - 5%

That's eye opening

 

[fairchaser]

I killed this buck two years after this picture and he had the same exact rack. I believe he was 6.5 when I killed him and 4.5 when the pic was taken.

 

[BSK]

That's eye opening

Just remember, those are averages from hundreds if not thousands of bucks in Middle TN (although my data matches pretty much all other such data across the Southeast and Texas). Every deer is an individual. Some explode from one year to the next; some don't. I've seen bucks that didn't increase more than a few inches from 3 1/2 to 5 1/2, and then some that increase so much over that time frame it's hard to believe they're the same deer.

But one factor that is amazingly consistent: the largest young and middle-aged bucks tend to become the largest antlered bucks at maturity. Not every time, but the vast majority of the times.

 

[megalomaniac]

...3.5 to 4.5- 15%.

That's HUGE, although most folks don't realize it... until you look at the rack. We are talking they average 130in 3.5yo is going to be 150in at 4.5.

Or the ultra rare 150in 3.5yo is going to be well into the 170s at 4.5!!!

 

[rsimms]

Very interesting stuff here. Thanks for all the input. Assuming I'm correct that it's the same deer, his rack is significantly larger (in inches), just not points. Truth is, if I get the chance at him while hunting this year, I'll likely take him. I'm just hunting a very small tract of land with lots of other folks hunting all around. I seriously doubt he'd get "a pass."

 

[JCDEERMAN]

...3.5 to 4.5- 15%.

That's HUGE, although most folks don't realize it... until you look at the rack. We are talking they average 130in 3.5yo is going to be 150in at 4.5.

Or the ultra rare 150in 3.5yo is going to be well into the 170s at 4.5!!!

Agreed.

These average numbers are impressive. Take a 3.5 yo 110" deer. At 4.5, he's just a few inches from reaching 130". Nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[Planking]

I have one that i have watched from 4.5-6.5.
He has his most impressive rack this year. He was bigger at 4.5 than he was at 5.5 though. Nature sure is cool.

 

[BSK]

I have one that i have watched from 4.5-6.5.
He has his most impressive rack this year. He was bigger at 4.5 than he was at 5.5 though. Nature sure is cool.

I'm always amazed at how often bucks will have the most visually impressive rack (point length) at 4 1/2, but then decline in score in future years. However, their racks tend to get much more massive in future years, even if their total score declines.

 

[@fulldraw]

...3.5 to 4.5- 15%.

That's HUGE, although most folks don't realize it... until you look at the rack. We are talking they average 130in 3.5yo is going to be 150in at 4.5.

Or the ultra rare 150in 3.5yo is going to be well into the 170s at 4.5!!!

How about a 135" 3 yo to 185" 4 yo?

 

[megalomaniac]

How about a 135" 3 yo to 185" 4 yo?

That's not normal but sure is NICE when it happens, and even better when you actually tag him! Incredible deer, congrats!

 

[@fulldraw]

That's not normal but sure is NICE when it happens, and even better when you actually tag him! Incredible deer, congrats!

Thanks. He surprised us for sure. We were thinking 165ish but he was a lot heavier than we imagined. Scored 179 with about 6-8" broke off. My dad was the fortunate one to kill him.

 

[TheLBLman]

I'm always amazed at how often bucks will have the most visually impressive rack (point length) at 4 1/2, but then decline in score in future years. However, their racks tend to get much more massive in future years, even if their total score declines.

EXACTLY!

And because of this increase in mass, which as much less effect on "score" than tine length, the "measured" 5% increase in score from 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 tends to understate how much more impressive only 5% more in "score" CAN be.

Also, fully mature bucks tend to gain circumference (mass) in their tines, and this tine mass is never part of the score, but sure adds to the overall "mass" of what you see!

Average antler gross score increase:

1 1/2 to 2 1/2 - 100%
2 1/2 to 3 1/2 - 25%
3 1/2 to 4 1/2 - 15%
4 1/2 to 5 1/2 - 5%

One more thing:

Even though bucks that survive to 6 1/2 & 7 1/2 often loose some tine length, which can cause their B&C "score" to regress, they will often grow abnormal "sticker" points (sometimes with "scoring" these get subtracted from the score!), yet these abnormal sticker & kicker points may greatly add to the antler's overall uniqueness and "trophy" aspect.

Many "clean" mainframe 8 to 9-pointers at 4 1/2
can end up as "gnarly" 8 to 9-point mainframes at 6 1/2 (or older)
but may have 11 to 12 scoreable "points" over an inch long,
along with several more non-scoreable under an inch.
Never mind those "scoreable" ones actually subtract from the "score".
Crazy, imo.

 

[BSK]

Many "clean" mainframe 8 to 9-pointers at 4 1/2
can end up as "gnarly" 8 to 9-point mainframes at 6 1/2 (or older)
but may have 11 to 12 scoreable "points" over an inch long,
along with several more non-scoreable under an inch.
Never mind those "scoreable" ones actually subtract from the "score".
Crazy, imo.

This old guy's mainframe 9-points put him in the low 140s. But his triple brows on one side, double brows on the other, and kicker off the back of his beam drove his gross nontypical score up to 156.

 

[TheLBLman]

Unique "trophy" buck!
What was his age?

 

[BSK]

Unique "trophy" buck!
What was his age?

5 1/2

His mass was unreal. Those bases are like Coke cans.

 

[Volbuck777]

How about a 135" 3 yo to 185" 4 yo?

Was this a Tennessee buck

 

[TheLBLman]

5 1/2

His mass was unreal. Those bases are like Coke cans.

THAT my friend is much of why I prefer to hold out for fully mature bucks!
"Mass" may be the most consistent antler trait that comes with age?

 

[BSK]

THAT my friend is much of why I prefer to hold out for fully mature bucks!
"Mass" may be the most consistent antler trait that comes with age?

I would agree with that.

And heavy mass is damn impressive as it comes through the woods towards you!

 

[Shed Hunter]

I would agree with that.

And heavy mass is damn impressive as it comes through the woods towards you!

Holding a set of antlers with mass is a lot more satisfying than a thin set that scores high because it has a lot of length. One of my favorite sheds from last year has over a 6" base and heavy all the way through even up the tines. The best part is I found him on trail cam this summer and even though he's only about 13" wide he'll score pretty darn good and his opposite side is much larger