Different Thought On Management Of You Deer Herd

[Stoner]

I was talking to a couple people that I know about deer management techniques. One of these individuals has a deer farm and raises some spectacular bucks and the other individual has a little better then 1,000 acres in Alabama that practices quality control on his deer herd. His deer are free-ranging and he has done an excellent job managing his deer herd. We started talking about mineral pellets mix in with the feed for the deer. The deer farmer stated if you want to see big difference in the quality of you deer try worming deer at the close of hunting season thru July. The deer farmer suggested using Ivomec; he said it is somewhat labor intensive. He mixes an Ivomec solution and soaks corn in it and takes it out and dries it on a tarp in the sun and puts it into his trough feeders. Ivomec is a topical solution that has been used on cattle for a number of years. He explained that Ivomec was use externally on cattle and hog farmers started using it on their hogs internally by putting it in their feed and had good success with it. He said it kills the intestinal parasites, ticks, fleas, and mites. He stated you stop using it in July and it will be out of the deer system before hunting season comes in. He said the body size of the deer will increase and the antler growth along with it. He believes it has more of a profound impact then mixing minerals with the feed. It was an interesting conversation with some knowledgeable fellows on deer management techniques, any thoughts on deworming your deer?

 

[richmanbarbeque]

I'm sure it works great. Something about that doesn't sit well with me. I'll work on habitat improvements and let God be God.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I'm sure it works great. Something about that doesn't sit well with me. I'll work on habitat improvements and let God be God.

Yep. I agree fully.

 

[BSK]

I'm sure it works great. Something about that doesn't sit well with me. I'll work on habitat improvements and let God be God.

Yep. I agree fully.

X3

Everyone has a different level at which they feel management has become too artificial. No right or wrong answer exists to the question "How much management is too much management?" It's just a question you have to ask yourself. Is using cattle dewormer on deer really "wildlife" management or is it domestic deer farming? Notice my emphasis on the prefix "wild."

 

[BigGameGuy]

I'm not even sure you can administer medication to free-ranging deer. :confused: I'll check on that tomorrow.

 

[Football Hunter]

One other thought,I know in dogs,if you use Ivomec,and the dog has heart worms,hes dead,dont know how this would relate to deer,or if they even get em,heart worms that is

 

[square]

Ae we deer hunters or deer farmers?????

 

[BSK]

Ae we deer hunters or deer farmers?????

Exactly. If I wanted to hunt domesticated animals, I would go shoot a cow.

 

[Winchester]

Like stated above, where do you draw the line? Is some management ok but a lot of management not ok? Careful what you say or wish for, this is a slippery slope at best!

 

[BSK]

Like stated above, where do you draw the line? Is some management ok but a lot of management not ok? Careful what you say or wish for, this is a slippery slope at best!

You bet it's a slippery slope. Everyone will have their own definition of "How much management is too much management."

 

[Diehard Hunter]

I'm not even sure you can administer medication to free-ranging deer. :confused: I'll check on that tomorrow.

We tried that several years ago with an Entomologist from UTK. The research was done at Fairfield Glade in response to an Ehrlichiosis (Sp?) outbreak there. I can't remember his name, but the same entomologist still collects ticks from deer at Oak Ridge every year. Ben Layton should remember it, we had a hard time capturing the deer to see if they were getting the medication at adequate levels.

 

[Stoner]

I appreciate all the input and comments. I guess the real issue is how much deer herd management to too much management and if it leads you into the area as to what is ethical and what is not ethical. At this time I have not tried any method of deworming my deer herd. But when it came up in a discussion over lunch the other day it did get my attention. Some of you feel that the deworming of the deer will cross over the line and the deer will be viewed as a domestic animal. A free-ranging wild deer will always be a free-ranging wild deer even if it�s internal parasites have been lessen or eliminated. It is just as wild but is a healthier deer. I grow crops year round for my deer and I do supplement their diet with protein pellets after the hunting season has end and into spring during the period they are growing antlers. I do not see a problem with managing the herd by growing crops and selective harvest. I think it would be wrong if you create a deer herd that was depended on a unnatural food sources (feed corn, etc.) I consider unethical to hunt over a feeder or as you see on some of the outdoor shows these fellows pouring some unnatural food or mineral out of a bag on the ground and hunt out of a treestand overlooking that spot. I guess I do not see the problem with deworming a deer if it is safe and does not hurt the deer. I am starting to ramble, I do value your comments and opinions on the subject.

 

[BSK]

Some of you feel that the deworming of the deer will cross over the line and the deer will be viewed as a domestic animal. A free-ranging wild deer will always be a free-ranging wild deer even if it�s internal parasites have been lessen or eliminated.

Again, everyone will have a different opinion. But from my perspective, a deer dewormed by the artificial hand of man is still free-ranging, but certainly no longer "wild." It is a free-ranging domestic animal. I would feel about a free-ranging domestic deer just like a do free-ranging domestic hogs--a pest to be shot at will, not a wild animal.

It is just as wild but is a healthier deer.

How do you know it would be healthier? You could be doing tremendous damage to that animal. What if you kill some of their critical gut bacteria? Deer digest food primarily through bacterial action, and some parasites may have a symbiotic relationship with important gut bacteria. Wild animals are naturally adapted to parasites. You are talking about serious dabbling in Natural processes without any scientific testing as to whether this drug is harmful or not. That's a dangerous practice. Again, deer are not cattle.

I grow crops year round for my deer and I do supplement their diet with protein pellets after the hunting season has end and into spring during the period they are growing antlers. I do not see a problem with managing the herd by growing crops and selective harvest. I think it would be wrong if you create a deer herd that was depended on a unnatural food sources (feed corn, etc.)

I agree. Deer should never be dependent on unnatural food sources.

 

[Greg M]

Bear in mind that it has been suggested in the medical community that anti-bacterial hand soap used on a regular basis is causing both increased gastrointestinal complications due to removing good bacteria in our intestines and an increased resistance to certain antibiotics causing new strains of resistant bacteria in humans. And this is something as simple as hand soap. I gotta say, I'd be less inclined to do this just because, as BSK stated, we have no real data on how this would affect the herd for a short or long term basis. I do, however, disagree to the idea that this somehow domesticates deer . If there was a cure for EHD or CWD that could be supplemented into their diet, I think every plot planter on here would jump all over it, and Hank Parker, David Morris and Lee Lakosky would be pimpin it every 15 minutes on Outdoor. Just my .02

 

[BSK]

If there was a cure for EHD or CWD that could be supplemented into their diet, I think every plot planter on here would jump all over it...

Not me. Disease is Nature's way. It's a form of Natural Selection, and Nature will find ways of overcoming these diseases if we leave well enough alone. The HD outbreaks we go through occassionally are actually a good thing in the long run.

Provide as much as possible in the way of a healthy habitat, and let Nature take her course.

 

[Greg M]

BSK, from the medical community side, I could envision you and I having long discussions about vaccines, disease etc...lol. Like stated, it's an individual mindset as to what is too much management. Where would it end? Thoughts of Lee Majors conjure up:
"Gentlemen, we can build him. We have the technology. Better, stronger, faster".

 

[BSK]

BSK, from the medical community side, I could envision you and I having long discussions about vaccines, disease etc...lol.

Don't even get me started on that debate! That's a philisophical tough one. Although we've temporarily made our lives infinitely better through circumventing the Natural Selection process--our use of man-made chemicals and manipulated viruses as a substitute for our immune system--the long-term consequences will not be good. We are probably signing our own species' death warrant.

 

[Winchester]

Good posts and if you want to get picky, we are already putting many unnatural things in the deers world. Minerals from a to z are available and readily used by many, Hybrid seeds planted,all kinds of fertilizer experimented with on these very seeds, green food plots in winter where none ever existed before we planted them there,etc.

 

[BSK]

I think we too often underestimate the level of interaction there has been between Man and deer throughout the white-tails existence. The whitetail species has evolved in close association with Man and his manipulations of the habitat, and some of these manipulations were conducted specifically for the benefit of wildlife. Man been one of the primary predators of deer for 4-5 thousand years. Deer have benefitted from major human manipulation of the habitat for 3-4 thousand years, and deer have had excess to large-scale agriculture for over 1,000 years.

Now we certainly have the ability to perform far more intensive management efforts than early Americans did, but that doesn't mean we have to do these things.

 

[EMT-IV 29863]

One other thought,I know in dogs,if you use Ivomec,and the dog has heart worms,hes dead,dont know how this would relate to deer,or if they even get em,heart worms that is

If they have heart worms they are dead anyway, just a matter of time

 

[Boone 58]

Well, that is too much for me.