Deer supplements

[TraumaSlave]

Every hunting season, products like Deer Caine and the like go in sale. All the mineral blocks and all those antler enhancers. Wouldn't now be the time to out those out? Now is when they are growing.

 

[BSK]

Every hunting season, products like Deer Caine and the like go in sale. All the mineral blocks and all those antler enhancers. Wouldn't now be the time to out those out? Now is when they are growing.

If those products actually did anything, mid-Spring would be the time to put them out. However, those products don't do anything, so I would avoid them.

 

[Vermin93]

I put my Trophy Rocks out during turkey season. Great way to get lots of trail cam pictures during the summer, which is super fun.

 

[Mike Belt]

I don't know if I'd say they don't do any good but I'm almost sure you can't put out enough to make a difference.

 

[BSK]

I don't know if I'd say they don't do any good but I'm almost sure you can't put out enough to make a difference.

Probably the best way to phrase it Mike. No scientific evidence they do any good that can be measured. Doesn't mean they don't do any good at all, just not anything that can be proven.

That said, I do use salt licks for running late summer censuses over. They work great for that purpose and are less potentially harmful than corn (in summer).

 

[Hunter 257W]

I bet they don't sell much this time of year. Most deer hunters don't think of salt/minerals until right before hunting season. That's why they put them on sale at that time I'm sure. You are right that this is the time of year when they should be used! The only products I know of that have beneficial contents are the Whitetail Institute products and Rack-UP by Evolved Habitats. All the others that I can think of are mostly salt.

 

[BSK]

The only products I know of that have beneficial contents are the Whitetail Institute products and Rack-UP by Evolved Habitats.

Just because something is listed on a label that--in theory--is beneficial, doesn't mean it actually IS beneficial. How many people realize that virtually no supplement for humans--from vitamins on up--actually can be proven to be beneficial? Obviously, few because GNC is an entire national franchise based on selling products that do little.

 

[barkscraper]

This goes back to the power of advertising and the weakness we have to a quick fix rather than looking at the whole picture of what it takes to hold the deer on our property. Salt will help with the game camera pics but plays such a small piece in the whole picture . They like salt and so does most everybody. I wonder if a person could put a weight lifter on a salt box and sell more salt. I BET IF WHITETAIL INST. READS THIS WE WILL SEE IT AND IF ADVERTISED RIGHT THERE WILL BE SOME DEER HUNTERS BUY IT.....

 

[tree_ghost]

So are these high fence operations that are growing these circus like deer using protein pellets or steroids or what?


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[BSK]

So are these high fence operations that are growing these circus like deer using protein pellets or steroids or what?

They are simply displaying what any group of deer will produce if given year-round maximized food resources. Most unfenced properties can't produce the same thing because the deer that are eating on those properties this month may not be the same deer eating on the properties next month. Deer are constantly shifting ranges seasonally. To maximize potential, deer must have maximized nutrition every day of the year. In a free-ranging situation, that isn't possible.

Although, the absolutely freak deer seen in magazines and on the internet often involve different forms of genetic manipulation. I work with a couple of high-fences here in TN and they do not produce massive freak deer even though they supplemental feed. They produce larger deer than the surrounding unfenced areas, but not monster freaks.

 

[Hunter 257W]

The only products I know of that have beneficial contents are the Whitetail Institute products and Rack-UP by Evolved Habitats.

Just because something is listed on a label that--in theory--is beneficial, doesn't mean it actually IS beneficial. How many people realize that virtually no supplement for humans--from vitamins on up--actually can be proven to be beneficial? Obviously, few because GNC is an entire national franchise based on selling products that do little.

I see that being more of an issue with the ability to control any study of supplement effect rather than proof that they don't have any benefit. Of course you can't measure the benefit of dietary supplements when you don't even know if you are looking at the same deer and the deer population is constantly shifting geographic areas while partaking of the minerals some days then going without for weeks. That in no way says the minerals don't add some benefit when they do eat them. I also suspect any gains would vary so much in individual deer that you would have to have pen raised deer with ear tags. Even then you'd never know what that individual might have weighed or the rack they might have grown without the minerals and without knowing that, you can't measure the value of the mineral in the diet. I just don't see it as the big con game some do for most hunters who buy 1 or 2 bags of minerals a year at $10/bag. That is an insignificant amount of money compared to the total expenditure for an average deer hunter.

 

[deerchaser007]

Here is my concern, the much higher amount of calcium. They ASSUME the higher amount of calcium will absorb into the body and bone and produce more antler. There is already research out there that this is not the case. Instead of going to the headgear, it can cause other problems. Is it really worth the risk? I know for a fact in humans that high calcium in the blood can and will cause major health problems, from the liver to the gut, to the autoimmune system. So with no research on it to rule out any negative affects, I will stick with trace or all natural supplements.
BSK, I do have to disagree alittle on the human part of supplementing. If a person is having routine blood pulls, and it indicates a deficiency, vitamins and supplements do help. I was working night shift for so long my vitamin D was very low. But, my calcium was sky high, dangerous level. I could not take in D thru milk cause of the Calcium risk. Most vitamin D is thru the sun, which I was not getting because of my shift. Vitamin D supplement is only option in that case. Also, my docs feel strongly that my family has a gene of some kind of something that just makes our triglycerides high in our body. It starts to occur around 40. My dad's went sky high at same age. Mine has too. Instead of prescription drugs with side effects, we have found and been put on omega 3 fish oil, red rice yeast, and niacine flush free, and it helps more than a prescription drug at leveling us off. My dad's at times is over 700, mine around 350. I use the fish oil and red rice with a B complex. So, with regular blood pulls and docs who know what you should and shouldn't do, they can be helpful. But, deer are not gonna get there blood pulled yearly!

 

[barkscraper]

I might be looking at this all wrong but salt or any minerals should only be used for cameras not deer health or rack building properties. I like chocolate and if you did not know better you would think it had to be good for me if you seen how much I eat it. Providing a food source that would last all winter like rye grain which will provide all the crude protein for the does and the bucks would be better. A year long food source like clover, oats, rye, radishes, peas would be better than minerals where they get what they need all year. Its a year long program and its not in a bag.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I might be looking at this all wrong but salt or any minerals should only be used for cameras not deer health or rack building properties. I like chocolate and if you did not know better you would think it had to be good for me if you seen how much I eat it. Providing a food source that would last all winter like rye grain which will provide all the crude protein for the does and the bucks would be better. A year long food source like clover, oats, rye, radishes, peas would be better than minerals where they get what they need all year. Its a year long program and its not in a bag.

I agree absolutely that any benefit with a bucks rack or general deer health from minerals is going to be very very small compared to what a healthy diet can accomplish. My hopes/expectations is that minerals might add 2 or 3 inches of rack size. It would certainly be so small that you are never going to notice it but at the same time if it did add that much for a couple of $10 bags of salt/year, why not?

 

[Mike Belt]

I won't go so far as to say deer never use a salt/mineral lick during the winter but if they do it is very minimal if at all. They just don't require it then. That may also be why those items go on sale at that time of the year because they've already served their purpose for the season.

 

[BSK]

The only products I know of that have beneficial contents are the Whitetail Institute products and Rack-UP by Evolved Habitats.

Just because something is listed on a label that--in theory--is beneficial, doesn't mean it actually IS beneficial. How many people realize that virtually no supplement for humans--from vitamins on up--actually can be proven to be beneficial? Obviously, few because GNC is an entire national franchise based on selling products that do little.

I see that being more of an issue with the ability to control any study of supplement effect rather than proof that they don't have any benefit. Of course you can't measure the benefit of dietary supplements when you don't even know if you are looking at the same deer and the deer population is constantly shifting geographic areas while partaking of the minerals some days then going without for weeks. That in no way says the minerals don't add some benefit when they do eat them. I also suspect any gains would vary so much in individual deer that you would have to have pen raised deer with ear tags. Even then you'd never know what that individual might have weighed or the rack they might have grown without the minerals and without knowing that, you can't measure the value of the mineral in the diet. I just don't see it as the big con game some do for most hunters who buy 1 or 2 bags of minerals a year at $10/bag. That is an insignificant amount of money compared to the total expenditure for an average deer hunter.

You absolutely hit the nail on the head Hunter 257W. In penned studies, some benefit will be seen. But what hunters are interested in is free-ranging deer. And in studies of free-ranging deer, no statistical benefit has been found, even though lots of companies have tried.

 

[Mike Belt]

As I see it you'd be hard pressed to determine exactly how much of a benefit supplements played even with penned deer. These places provide high quality feed and preventative medicines along with relatively stress free environments in conjunction with mineral supplements. I'm sure under those conditions they benefit from them but without those other ingredients I don't know that you'd see the same benefits.

 

[BSK]

Very true Mike. When many factors are changed, deciphering which factor alone produced any improvements is nearly impossible. That's why, in proper science, only one factor is changed at a time, while a second group is kept unchanged as a control.

On several occasions I've seen fairly significant improvements in antler development per age-class when a group of deer are put behind a high fence. No changes in diet or habitat quality, just protecting the deer behind the fence. I believe the sudden reduction in some life stresses--such as protection from daily harassment by free-ranging dogs--is a major contributor to the improvements. In fact, I tell prospective fence-builders to expect a 10 inch increase in average antler development per age-class simply as the result of the fence.

 

[Hunter 257W]

That's it, I'm buildin' a fence...........the Great Wall of China and Donald Trump ain't seen nothing compared to my fence to be! :mrgreen:

 

[SALTMAN]

There's so much ds in this post ( as compared to bs ) it's funny . Especially the next to last one . Take a free ranging wild deer and put him in a fence .... Yea that should really reduce the stress .
ALL living animals need salt . Period .
Plants Do Not produce necessary minerals in most cases , they pull from the soil and most of it does not contain proper amounts . Common Sense tells most people free choice minerals are good for animals .

 

[treefarmer]

If you are hunting near the materials check the regulations, I believe you can hunt over salt but not much else because it is considered baiting. Salt is used mostly during the spring and summer.

 

[ThorThor]

For year around camera locations the benefits of salt licks cannot be denied. I use trophy rocks mainly because deer seem to like them more than other products. I put them in four locations and run cameras year around. I would not say every deer that passes through stops at them but 9/10 will.