Deer/hog farming

[southernhunter]

. I understand farming deer is illegal in Tennessee for now. I have some family that farms hogs to sell . I'd like to know money about the cost of investing in this type of farming and average income wildlife farming can provide . Thanks

 

[BSK]

Who are you going to sell your product to? There isn't a market for deer farming. It is a pyramid scheme, just like ostrich farming was 10-20 years ago.

 

[TheLBLman]

There isn't a market for deer farming.

I totally agree with BSK about this.

But just to take this thought a little farther, "what if" a market for deer farming did get developed to a greater degree, i.e. more restaurants serving venison and venison being sold in groceries?

My take is it would create a more significant underground or black market for selling wild (non-farm-raised) venison. Not only could this be bad for deer hunting (and wild deer), but it might be the biggest thing guaranteeing the ultimate failure of most legitimate deer farms and honest deer farmers.

"Competition" is always going to be a major factor in the potential for success or failure of any business. It is usually an unknown factor to a large degree, while much of the obvious gets overlooked. But in the case of ostrich farming, at least in the U.S., there was no competition from wild, free-roaming birds. So in this one respect, deer farming has something going against it from the get-go that ostrich farming did not.

The competition from the rise of illegally-sold venison (from wild deer) has great potential to keep venison prices at or below the costs of farm-raised deer. This is a competition factor neither the beef nor poultry industry has, while both beef & poultry can work together as competitive factors against any other meat product. Not to mention, there may be a growing competition of legally harvested wild deer simply being given away, for "free".

 

[JMcB]

I am on the side of legalization & regulation would ultimately decrease black market activity. I understand your point regarding a free roaming herd, but I believe if we look to the 22 states who allow farming, black market sales from poachers is of little concern. The bill put forward a couple years ago to allow deer farming in TN. was promoted as an economic benefit for rural areas of the state and increased revenue for local farmers.

The most critical of the bill were both the TWRA and the TWF. TWF objected to what they considered the ethical issues such as private deer ownership, high fence hunts, etc. Whereas TWRA stood on the CWD argument of the possible increased chances of the disease entering the state. As a result, the bill was tabled and not reintroduced in 2012.

There is a chance though we will see this circle around. Some supporters of the bill contended TWRA is being "hypocritical because the agency has recently participated in bringing elk, which are also subject to CWD, into the state - both for release into the wild and for farming". Also, others contend a major briar in TWRA's saddle to be the bill recommends regulation of farmed deer to the Tennessee Department of Agriculture and not TWRA.

If a state agency can import deer for farming and permitted hunts, does anyone think an individual (southernspur hunter) should be allowed the same opportunity?

 

[TheLBLman]

Do two wrongs make a right?

If a state agency can import deer for farming and permitted hunts, does anyone think an individual (southernspur hunter) should be allowed the same opportunity?

IMO, while this is a valid question, it is both out of context, and like comparing an apple to an orange.

Our state has not imported any deer since the dangers of CWD became so well documented. How many years has it been since the State of TN last imported a deer? Our state is currently not doing this, so it is not an issue of "if they can, why can't I." But when they did, it was for the purpose of re-establishing native deer (and/or elk) to the public wildlife coffers, not for the purpose of "selling hunts, selling meat, or breeder bucks for profit".

Am I wrong in believing this whole issue of "deer farming" is more about a very few people making money from the sale of large-antlered "breeder bucks" (for the purpose of creating more large-antlered bucks to be shot in a fenced enclosure under the guise of hunting) rather than much to do with the sale of venison as a food item?

"Permitted hunts"?

I assume the permitted hunts being referenced are the six (6) annual elk permits that the State sells or raffles for the purpose of re-establishing/maintaining Tennessee's once native free-roaming elk herd?

If so, is this even a valid comparison to commercially selling "hunts" inside a fenced enclosure?

I do realize everything cannot be either "good" or "bad" and that there are some good points made for commercially raising deer and offering "canned" hunts. Just remains my opinion that the bad points outweigh the good, especially for the general public, who are not among those asking for commercial deer farms and high-fenced hunting.

 

[JMcB]

No sir. But I think the practice will continue and think the bill does have some merit.

 

[Beekeeper]

No sir. But I think the practice will continue and think the bill does have some merit.

I think it would be a very bad thing to allow this in Tennessee. Look at the problems they have in states that allow it. Pay close attention to Wisconsin and the acts of some "Deer Farmers" in Texas.

 

[southernhunter]

Why would farming whitetail deer be any different than hogs,elk, exotic animals, ect ?? People have been doing that for a long time so there has to be some money in it . You raise a deer in a fence sell to a club that sells it to some rich guy that wants to fly in and shoot a trophy animal in his suit , how does that effect the deer the Tn hunter hunts ? How does that change the ethics of a single Tn deer hunter ? I talked to a family member that cleared 15,000 on hogs last year sold to local hunting clubs not included was the exotic animals that was sold , I know a several stories where people made their living form doing just that , one example is a friend of my fathers that worked his whole life for a club mounting animals that was sold and killed by people with more money than Sense . So there's money in it for sure if you have the right connections. A friend of mine just helped out with a episode of rocket city rednecks where the owner of the deer farm told him he had customers that spent over $25000 a year to fly in and shoot a animal,he also sold many animals to hunting clubs, as well as collecting urine ect ect , I really don't understand how this would effect a average deer hunter like you or me ? Please explain

 

[JMcB]

Whether or not I approve or disapprove of canned hunts, big antlers or retail venison really doesn't come into play. Economic considerations and the marketplace would determine the direction of these businesses.

It is unfortunate though for an entire industry to be politically managed and portrayed as the culprits for spreading disease to our wild herds. Especially when very little evidence exists to support the claim.

 

[tn droptine]

 

[Beekeeper]

Why would farming whitetail deer be any different than hogs,elk, exotic animals, ect ?? People have been doing that for a long time so there has to be some money in it . You raise a deer in a fence sell to a club that sells it to some rich guy that wants to fly in and shoot a trophy animal in his suit , how does that effect the deer the Tn hunter hunts ? How does that change the ethics of a single Tn deer hunter ? I talked to a family member that cleared 15,000 on hogs last year sold to local hunting clubs not included was the exotic animals that was sold , I know a several stories where people made their living form doing just that , one example is a friend of my fathers that worked his whole life for a club mounting animals that was sold and killed by people with more money than Sense . So there's money in it for sure if you have the right connections. A friend of mine just helped out with a episode of rocket city rednecks where the owner of the deer farm told him he had customers that spent over $25000 a year to fly in and shoot a animal,he also sold many animals to hunting clubs, as well as collecting urine ect ect , I really don't understand how this would effect a average deer hunter like you or me ? Please explain

Look at the damage to the free ranging deer herd in WI and the damage caused by free ranging hogs and you will have your answer. Deer with CWD have been linked to deer farming operations in more than one state. Tennessee has a strong and healthy deer herd that I would hate to see be put at risk for the questionable benefit for a few folks.

Whether or not I approve or disapprove of canned hunts, big antlers or retail venison really doesn't come into play. Economic considerations and the marketplace would determine the direction of these businesses.

It is unfortunate though for an entire industry to be politically managed and portrayed as the culprits for spreading disease to our wild herds. Especially when very little evidence exists to support the claim.

There was enough evidence to close certain farms and put these areas under quarantine.
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lab/reports/ ... lights.htm

Some farm owners in Texas were found guilty and fined in a court of law. This could be an indication of how "Deer Farmers" treat the law. I wouldn't want to take the risk that this behavior imposes just for the benefit of a few.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/fie ... gling-deer

http://www.athensreview.com/breakingnew ... -probation

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/28 ... r-20120129

http://www.kltv.com/story/13004037/aust ... east-texas

 

[scn]

Whether or not I approve or disapprove of canned hunts, big antlers or retail venison really doesn't come into play. Economic considerations and the marketplace would determine the direction of these businesses.

It is unfortunate though for an entire industry to be politically managed and portrayed as the culprits for spreading disease to our wild herds. Especially when very little evidence exists to support the claim.

LOL

I'm sure it is just a coincidence where in state after state that CWD shows up in a wild herd in close proximity of where deer farming is or has occurred.

 

[scn]

I am on the side of legalization & regulation would ultimately decrease black market activity. I understand your point regarding a free roaming herd, but I believe if we look to the 22 states who allow farming, black market sales from poachers is of little concern. The bill put forward a couple years ago to allow deer farming in TN. was promoted as an economic benefit for rural areas of the state and increased revenue for local farmers.

The most critical of the bill were both the TWRA and the TWF. TWF objected to what they considered the ethical issues such as private deer ownership, high fence hunts, etc. Whereas TWRA stood on the CWD argument of the possible increased chances of the disease entering the state. As a result, the bill was tabled and not reintroduced in 2012.

There is a chance though we will see this circle around. Some supporters of the bill contended TWRA is being "hypocritical because the agency has recently participated in bringing elk, which are also subject to CWD, into the state - both for release into the wild and for farming". Also, others contend a major briar in TWRA's saddle to be the bill recommends regulation of farmed deer to the Tennessee Department of Agriculture and not TWRA.

If a state agency can import deer for farming and permitted hunts, does anyone think an individual (southernspur hunter) should be allowed the same opportunity?

The elk that TWRA brought in were from a scientifically documented CWD free zone and were monitored by the state Dept. of Agriculture through the process.

CWD is prevalent in the deer farming industry, and would be a disaster if allowed to happen in TN.

 

[southernhunter]

If cwd is in fact spread by deer farming then it shouldn't be allowed I agree , I'd like to know the truth on this, I have read reports that said there was no connection.so who's lying ??? I know nothing about deer farming other than what I have researched but I can't see how a deer that was conceived ,born and raised inside a Fence it's whole life could infect the wild herd ? Alabama allows deer farming but you can't cross state lines, according to the Alabama deer farming organization there's no problem with cwd in the state .

 

[Beekeeper]

If cwd is in fact spread by deer farming then it shouldn't be allowed I agree , I'd like to know the truth on this, I have read reports that said there was no connection.so who's lying ??? I know nothing about deer farming other than what I have researched but I can't see how a deer that was conceived ,born and raised inside a Fence it's whole life could infect the wild herd ? Alabama allows deer farming but you can't cross state lines, according to the Alabama deer farming organization there's no problem with cwd in the state .

Check the sources of what you have been reading. The deer farming folks put out a lot of self-serving reports. One thing that will tell the tale is to follow the money. The folks that are against deer farming in TN have nothing to gain. The ones that want to bring it into our state have profits in mind.

 

[JandSCattleCo]

I am on the side of legalization & regulation would ultimately decrease black market activity. I understand your point regarding a free roaming herd, but I believe if we look to the 22 states who allow farming, black market sales from poachers is of little concern. The bill put forward a couple years ago to allow deer farming in TN. was promoted as an economic benefit for rural areas of the state and increased revenue for local farmers.

The most critical of the bill were both the TWRA and the TWF. TWF objected to what they considered the ethical issues such as private deer ownership, high fence hunts, etc. Whereas TWRA stood on the CWD argument of the possible increased chances of the disease entering the state. As a result, the bill was tabled and not reintroduced in 2012.

There is a chance though we will see this circle around. Some supporters of the bill contended TWRA is being "hypocritical because the agency has recently participated in bringing elk, which are also subject to CWD, into the state - both for release into the wild and for farming". Also, others contend a major briar in TWRA's saddle to be the bill recommends regulation of farmed deer to the Tennessee Department of Agriculture and not TWRA.

If a state agency can import deer for farming and permitted hunts, does anyone think an individual (southernspur hunter) should be allowed the same opportunity?

The elk that TWRA brought in were from a scientifically documented CWD free zone and were monitored by the state Dept. of Agriculture through the process.

CWD is prevalent in the deer farming industry, and would be a disaster if allowed to happen in TN.

The reason it's seen first in deer farms is because any animal that dies must be tested by law.

How many deer taken by hunters are required to be tested.

Of course it will be found there before in the wild population.

 

[scn]

I am on the side of legalization & regulation would ultimately decrease black market activity. I understand your point regarding a free roaming herd, but I believe if we look to the 22 states who allow farming, black market sales from poachers is of little concern. The bill put forward a couple years ago to allow deer farming in TN. was promoted as an economic benefit for rural areas of the state and increased revenue for local farmers.

The most critical of the bill were both the TWRA and the TWF. TWF objected to what they considered the ethical issues such as private deer ownership, high fence hunts, etc. Whereas TWRA stood on the CWD argument of the possible increased chances of the disease entering the state. As a result, the bill was tabled and not reintroduced in 2012.

There is a chance though we will see this circle around. Some supporters of the bill contended TWRA is being "hypocritical because the agency has recently participated in bringing elk, which are also subject to CWD, into the state - both for release into the wild and for farming". Also, others contend a major briar in TWRA's saddle to be the bill recommends regulation of farmed deer to the Tennessee Department of Agriculture and not TWRA.

If a state agency can import deer for farming and permitted hunts, does anyone think an individual (southernspur hunter) should be allowed the same opportunity?

The elk that TWRA brought in were from a scientifically documented CWD free zone and were monitored by the state Dept. of Agriculture through the process.

CWD is prevalent in the deer farming industry, and would be a disaster if allowed to happen in TN.

The reason it's seen first in deer farms is because any animal that dies must be tested by law.

How many deer taken by hunters are required to be tested.

Of course it will be found there before in the wild population.

Or, more likely it is CWD infected deer that get brought into a facilty that infect the wild deer herd.

I doubt you would be able to sell your version up in Wisconsin.

 

[JandSCattleCo]

"More likely."

All you're doing is assuming scn.

 

[Beekeeper]

"More likely."

All you're doing is assuming scn.

I believe the facts speak for themselves. You don't have to stick your head in the fire to know it is hot.

 

[scn]

Missouri, West Virginia, Virginia, Wisconsin, and on and on. It is beyond mere coincidents the way it has gone down.

If you and your ilk want to decimate TN's deer herd with CWD so a few well placed folks can make money on the deer farming pyramid scheme, so be it. Hopefully the hunters in this state will continue to derail that misguided notion.

I'll leave it with you.

 

[TheLBLman]

I know nothing about deer farming other than what I have researched but I can't see how a deer that was conceived ,born and raised inside a Fence it's whole life could infect the wild herd?

Can give you four very simple ways:

1) Airborne pathogens (keep in mind, we're only talking about a fence separating "tame" deer from "wild" deer). If you've ever been downwind of a pig farm, that stench you smell should be ample evidence that crap gets airborne.

2) Water run-off or drainage carried pathogens. If there is any "slope" to the terrain, a creek, etc., water will likely flow (at least periodically) under the fence and into areas of wild free-roaming deer.

3) "Tame" deer getting out or escaping their enclosures. It will happen. Farm animals frequently escape their enclosures, as do dogs and any other animals we try to contain.

4) "Wild" deer getting inside to mingle with the "tame" deer.
Have you ever had a female dog come into heat inside your fenced back yard, and then found several male dogs had found a way to get over your fence?

Things get overlooked, mistakes happen, even Mother Nature can become an unexpected problem.

It is believed the Python snake problem in the Everglades is largely the result of a hurricane hitting a reptile farm where breeding females were very well secured. Along with this thought, I've never seen a deer-proof fence that a good size falling tree couldn't take down.