CWD is a serious threat

[fairchaser]

The Ames kick off banquet was last night and we had a PhD biologist from MS state talk to us about CWD. I was one of those that thought some of the hype was overblown. But I got my eyes opened, not in a panicked way but the facts about CWD. Apparently, there is a lot of celebrity and social media that thinks it's all a conspiracy to get money for the state agencies. But I can tell you that if we get it in TN, it will change deer hunting as we know and love it. That's scary! I urge everyone to abide by all the rules regarding bringing other carcasses across state lines. Once we have it here and it goes environmental we have it forever and you might as well look for other outdoor interests. Deer will not live as long so you can forget allowing bucks to mature and every deer harvested must be tested before you consume it. Let just those two things sink in for a second. We might not be able to stop it but we can delay it for a long time if we pay attention to what they tell us and follow the rules. Rant over.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

How come it hasn't changed in other states?

How come a state like Nebraska can have 500 positive tests since 2000 and yet the whitetails are a nuisance and units get increased tags every year?

How is states like IL, KS and Texas still considered the hot beds for trophy deer and numbers of deer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It has yet to decimate a deer herd in 50 years since it was found.

 

[fairchaser]

How come it hasn't changed in other states?

How come a state like Nebraska can have 500 positive tests since 2000 and yet the whitetails are a nuisance and units get increased tags every year?

How is states like IL, KS and Texas still considered the hot beds for trophy deer and numbers of deer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It has yet to decimate a deer herd in 50 years since it was found.

I don't know ALswamper. Maybe its not gone environmental yet in those places. I just know that it's not a big deal until it becomes a big deal. Then it's too late. Look how much it's impacted MS with the changing regs. I just want to raise the awareness of the risks and hope it never becomes a big deal and never get a case in TN.

 

[farmin68]

How come it hasn't changed in other states?

How come a state like Nebraska can have 500 positive tests since 2000 and yet the whitetails are a nuisance and units get increased tags every year?

How is states like IL, KS and Texas still considered the hot beds for trophy deer and numbers of deer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It has yet to decimate a deer herd in 50 years since it was found.

So it's not a big deal and nothing should be done to prevent the import of CWD into Tennessee?

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

I do think it's a lot of over reacting when I read the facts as we know them. I understand it's just my opinion but that's mine.

It's been in other states for decades and their deer herds are not dying.

I use nebraska because I hunt there. They say 499 positive tests. Whitetails are a nuisance there. They are confined to river and creek bottoms. The herd it's huge. Big mature bucks in every alfalfa field.

Illinois and Kansas same thing.

I'm just on the other side of the fence right now.

 

[fairchaser]

I do think it's a lot of over reacting when I read the facts as we know them. I understand it's just my opinion but that's mine.

It's been in other states for decades and their deer herds are not dying.

I use nebraska because I hunt there. They say 499 positive tests. Whitetails are a nuisance there. They are confined to river and creek bottoms. The herd it's huge. Big mature bucks in every alfalfa field.

Illinois and Kansas same thing.

I'm just on the other side of the fence right now.

One of the points made by the biologist was that it takes awhile for populations to start declining. The disease takes months to kill the animal and whitetails are prolific. It affects bucks more than does so the population is affected less. But the disease is real and once the population starts declining, there's no turning back. The death rate is 100%. We might not see much of an effect but our grandchildren may have a different reality.

 

[scn]

It's not really about the deer herd dying. The overriding concern is for possible health issues for humans eating contaminated deer meat. Thus, the reason for the total elimination of all deer in the target zones when it first appears, and then extensive monitoring to document any spread. Those dollars don't come from the taxpayers or the federal government. They are just another hit on the license dollars. No state wildlife agency has that type of money laying around for the testing, so it gets pulled from other programs that hunters are currently enjoying.

While there is not a direct link at this point to a serious human disease, there are some valid concerns about the potential for a "mad-cow" type disease from CWD deer meat. I know I would not knowingly eat deer from a CWD area without it being tested beforehand. And, therein comes the rub. To set up adequate opportunities for hunters to get their deer tested is very expensive and time consuming. While I probably would be willing to pay to get a deer or two tested for my family's consumption, I don't know that I would want to bear the same expense for hunters for the hungry deer. Without testing, there is no way that deer meat could be allowed to go into that program. And, without the HFH type programs, the ability to meet harvest objectives takes a hit.

I know some of the transportation issues are tough. I've had to bone out any deer I killed in IL for several years now, and it does take longer. But, I'm glad to do it because this is something that is going to be pretty awful if it gets into TN.

 

[WTM]

How come it hasn't changed in other states?

How come a state like Nebraska can have 500 positive tests since 2000 and yet the whitetails are a nuisance and units get increased tags every year?

How is states like IL, KS and Texas still considered the hot beds for trophy deer and numbers of deer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It has yet to decimate a deer herd in 50 years since it was found.

probably because it is isloated to the western side of the state. dont worry though, it is spreading east then you can enjoy a 10% annual decline in heard numbers like wyoming or wisconsin. the illinois management system keeps CWD isolated in pockets and lower rates of spread than other states. wisconsin started out this way then politicians got involved and it has pretty much went to hades.

 

[megalomaniac]

Hundreds of additional deer tested in the 'hot zone' of the south MS Delta, both euthanized by wildlife officers as well as road kills tested. Not another single one positive. Gotta give the MS biologists credit, however... they had a CWD response plan in place and have done a great job of initially informing hunters, creating a 'containment zone' (not that you can hope to contain it), and an excellent monitoring/ surveillance program. Hope it was just a fluke, but if you test enough deer in TN, it WILL pop positive in the next decade, just a function of numbers tested.

I can tell you I won't feed meat from a cervid to my kids in a CWD endemic area even if the animal tests negative. I'll still eat it, as it takes a couple decades to cause effects in humans, and I'll be an old man by then.... but not my kids. Why take the chance?

 

[fairchaser]

One thing the biologist said was the deer that tested positive in MS was a local sunflower county deer and not a deer transported from another state. Also the prions are mostly around the deers spine and especially around the neck. It can be transferred from deer to deer from nose to nose contact. It can also be gotten from prions in the ground or even plants and the prions could have been there for decades.

 

[Os2 Outdoors]

So what about the HUSH program in Iowa an other states?

It's not really about the deer herd dying. The overriding concern is for possible health issues for humans eating contaminated deer meat. Thus, the reason for the total elimination of all deer in the target zones when it first appears, and then extensive monitoring to document any spread. Those dollars don't come from the taxpayers or the federal government. They are just another hit on the license dollars. No state wildlife agency has that type of money laying around for the testing, so it gets pulled from other programs that hunters are currently enjoying.

While there is not a direct link at this point to a serious human disease, there are some valid concerns about the potential for a "mad-cow" type disease from CWD deer meat. I know I would not knowingly eat deer from a CWD area without it being tested beforehand. And, therein comes the rub. To set up adequate opportunities for hunters to get their deer tested is very expensive and time consuming. While I probably would be willing to pay to get a deer or two tested for my family's consumption, I don't know that I would want to bear the same expense for hunters for the hungry deer. Without testing, there is no way that deer meat could be allowed to go into that program. And, without the HFH type programs, the ability to meet harvest objectives takes a hit.

I know some of the transportation issues are tough. I've had to bone out any deer I killed in IL for several years now, and it does take longer. But, I'm glad to do it because this is something that is going to be pretty awful if it gets into TN.

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[Andy S.]

Great "scientific" article on CWD.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0161127

 

[Andy S.]

CDC Guidance on Consuming CWD Venison

https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/prevention.html

 

[Tractor John]

Could someone please educate the simple folks out here on the threat of a dead deer in the back of a truck spreading CWD vs free ranging deer in all the boarder states crossing the state line as they please? Is there a way for hunter taken deer from other states to be tested? And how do we know CWD hasn't been around forever, we just didn't know about it until it was discovered and named CWD?

 

[scn]

Could someone please educate the simple folks out here on the threat of a dead deer in the back of a truck spreading CWD vs free ranging deer in all the boarder states crossing the state line as they please? Is there a way for hunter taken deer from other states to be tested? And how do we know CWD hasn't been around forever, we just didn't know about it until it was discovered and named CWD?

Right now there is not a documented case of CWD in a bordering state that is close to the state line, so the free ranging deer part isn't a real concern. While there are issues of potential spread of the prions from dead deer as they are being driven, the real concerns are from the disposal of remains. If it is a CWD contaminated deer and the carcass with the prions is dumped out in TN, then that likely leads to a contaminated site from that point on.

We don't know that it hasn't been around forever. The fact that it hasn't shown up in TN yet is a pretty good sign that it isn't here. It probably isn't a coincidence that a lot of the cases in other states have been in close proximity to enclosures that held deer transported in from other areas. It is to all of our advantages to keep it out of the state, even if it means dealing with these transportation issues.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

How come it hasn't changed in other states?

How come a state like Nebraska can have 500 positive tests since 2000 and yet the whitetails are a nuisance and units get increased tags every year?

How is states like IL, KS and Texas still considered the hot beds for trophy deer and numbers of deer?

Sorry, I don't buy it. It has yet to decimate a deer herd in 50 years since it was found.

probably because it is isloated to the western side of the state. dont worry though, it is spreading east then you can enjoy a 10% annual decline in heard numbers like wyoming or wisconsin. the illinois management system keeps CWD isolated in pockets and lower rates of spread than other states. wisconsin started out this way then politicians got involved and it has pretty much went to hades.

They had positive tests in the whole state for nearly 20 years and Whitetail numbers continue to climb. So much so that they are causing the mule deer to decline in numbers.

The occasional EHD outbreaks is the only thing that helps.

 

[Headhunter]

Does and boning out the meat, not a big deal. Nothing to it. Only takes a few minutes per deer to bone meat and put in a cooler. If you don't know how, I will show anyone and I am sure many others on here will to.

Most States you can't kill more than one buck per season, so you either learn how to cape one out or find a taxidermist (most if not all hunters, especially those who hunt out of state, have rifles, bows, muzzleloaders, and/or shotguns that cost several hundred dollars to more than a thousand dollars, scopes that have the same cost, at least one treestand if not several of them, etc.) so I believe most all who hunt out of state can afford a few hundred bucks to take care of and the mounting a buck to help keep CWD from getting into Tennessee.

 

[Tractor John]

Right now there is not a documented case of CWD in a bordering state that is close to the state line, so the free ranging deer part isn't a real concern. While there are issues of potential spread of the prions from dead deer as they are being driven, the real concerns are from the disposal of remains. If it is a CWD contaminated deer and the carcass with the prions is dumped out in TN, then that likely leads to a contaminated site from that point on.

We don't know that it hasn't been around forever. The fact that it hasn't shown up in TN yet is a pretty good sign that it isn't here. It probably isn't a coincidence that a lot of the cases in other states have been in close proximity to enclosures that held deer transported in from other areas. It is to all of our advantages to keep it out of the state, even if it means dealing with these transportation issues.

SCN thanks for responded to my post. Your statement about no documented cases in bordering states is what has me confused? I guess that was really my question, just did a poor job communicating it. If we aren't worried about live deer spreading CWD from bordering states, why make hunters debone, cape, and boil skulls from the same states? The old policy made since, regarding deer form states that have know CWD cases. I just have trouble understanding how making hunters that hunt across bordering state lines is really accomplishing anything? Tennessee has 7 states that deer can freely cross state lines and spread CWD. But it appears from the new law we are more concerned about the dead ones? I wish there was a way to test harvested deer to determine if extra steps need to be taken. I don't want to spread the disease or eat bad meat.

 

[megalomaniac]

Want to get real scared? Think about eating vension from a processor... One infected animal will contaminate the next 500 that go through there. Now that's downright terrifying to me :) And I know there are some processers in the Delta questioning whether they will have the business to keep their doors open after this. Hurts everyone for sure.

 

[TheLBLman]

Tennessee has 7 states that deer can freely cross state lines and spread CWD.
But it appears from the new law we are more concerned about the dead ones?

Tractor John, hopefully SCN will add and provide a better answer, but here's part of my understanding:

Yes, deer living in/around a stateline are can and do cross state lines, back & forth.
However, their movements are relatively "localized".
Rarely, even during the rut,
is a deer going to travel more than about 10 miles from either its birthplace or its adult home range.

Regarding the border states, the risk of bringing in CWD is far greater from dead deer being brought back across the TN line
than it is from live deer that live in stateline areas. As an example, I would guess 90-95% of the deer living in KY will never cross the TN state line, unless a hunter kills them and brings them back dead.

CWD-infected deer are starting to show up in states bordering TN, just so far not right on our border.

Also, I suspect just saying "all" states "simplifies" the rule, since it was more confusing wondering from which states?
Plus, there was the issue of some hunters traveling thru states getting into trouble when TN wasn't requiring special measures, but the state being traveled thru did.

IMO, we should do everything we can "within reason" to reduce our risk of CWD in TN,
and this seems "reasonable"?

Although I do agree, for those of us hunting barely across a state line, it will add to our inconvenience, and may make little difference in these more localized circumstances.

 

[TheLBLman]

Just another thought, deer that have become infected with CWD may be the least likely "living" deer to cross a state line, since they're weak & sick, and not going far?

The bigger concern is more with the dead ones being brought across by hunters.

Meanwhile, to my knowledge, no CWD-infected deer have been discovered in any bordering county of any those 7 states surrounding TN. Hopefully, with somewhat extreme seeming, but "reasonable" measures, we can keep CWD from majorly effecting most of us here in TN.

These inconveniences now in place for when we kill deer in other states are basically nothing
compared to what we'll face if (or when) CWD hits us hard in TN.
It will eventually hit us, but maybe we can minimize just how hard it hits us.

 

[AT Hiker]

Could someone please educate the simple folks out here on the threat of a dead deer in the back of a truck spreading CWD vs free ranging deer in all the boarder states crossing the state line as they please?

From my understanding, as a taxidermist, is that bones and scraps get dumped in concentrated spots. Imagine Deer from all over the country getting brought back to a centralized location, a possible infected carcass getting dumped and the potential for the surrounding area to become infected is now a real concern.

I've read that clay lined landfills can stop the prions from leaching but most landfills around here do not want a carcass.

The best solution is for everyone to work together and get on the same page, wishful thinking right?


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[fairchaser]

Just another thought, deer that have become infected with CWD may be the least likely "living" deer to cross a state line, since they're weak & sick, and not going far

A point the biologist made was that the process for death is extremely slow for a deer and as they weaken and their brains become dysfunctional, the deer may wander and just keep walking until it dies. It will lose its normal fear of venturing away from its home range and may end miles from where it is as infected.

 

[bloodtrailing]

Thinking a state line is a barrier, when CWD is in a neighboring state, is really not logical.

 

[TheLBLman]

NO ONE sees a state line as a barrier.
But a state line is a logical separator,
when a line has to be drawn somewhere.

Just another thought, deer that have become infected with CWD may be the least likely "living" deer to cross a state line, since they're weak & sick, and not going far

A point the biologist made was that the process for death is extremely slow for a deer and as they weaken and their brains become dysfunctional, the deer may wander and just keep walking until it dies.

Good point, Fairchaser. I failed to consider that.
How far you think they might typically go?

 

[fairchaser]

Who can know LBLman, but the biologist seem to imply that 10-20 miles was not unusual.

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . the biologist seem to imply that 10-20 miles was not unusual.

10-20 miles certainly seems plausible on a confused deer.

To me, it doesn't seem plausible much farther (typically)
due to natural and man-made barriers that would typically impede any deer's straight-line travel distance.
I would think a "confused" deer is even more likely to be hit by a car on the highway/interstate,
or maybe even a boat in a lake.

Speaking of man-made barriers, would even consider a town/city to be a hard linear travel barrier
which would likely lead to a deer's death via automobile collision or simply being killed by dogs.

 

[Tractor John]

Sorry guys, not trying to be a jerk, just don't understand? To me this is just another "Feel Good" regulation passed to say we are trying something to stop CWD? But really not doing much at all, except making hunters debone all meat, tan the cape, and boil the skull of healthy deer? All because it came from another state that borders Tennessee but has ZERO cases of CWD? It doesn't take 25, or 100, or 500 cases to make a state a CWD state. Just one positive case will do it. No concern about a hunter feeding deboned meat to his family that might be from a CWD deer. Nope as long as it's deboned eat up? The concern is to the herd in Tennessee from dead deer brought in from a state bordering us with no cases of CWD?

Since Kentucky has the longest border with us, but could be one the other 6 states also, I will use Kentucky as the example. A buck spends the night across the state line in a picked corn field chasing does, breeding a hot doe, sparing with other bucks. He has interacted with Kentucky deer all night, then at daylight crosses back into Tennessee and is shot? Deer goes to processer and taxidermist with none of the steps required if he was shot a couple hundred yards away in Kentucky? Oh no, deer bones and brains throwed out in this state from a deer from another state. Or reverse the scenario, Tennessee buck crosses into Alabama and is shot by a Tennessean hunting with friends there. The regulation kicks in, and fun begins??? Why, it's a Tennessee deer that just happened to get on the wrong side of the state line? I could go on, and on. Poachers, coyotes or dogs dragging road kill deer from Georgia into Tennessee, or the thousands of hunters hunting on the line and just drag it back across because it's easier.

So we are suppose to believe that CWD is more likely to be spread by dead deer bones than free ranging deer crossing an imaginary line? Don't get me wrong, don't want any part of CWD in our state. But where is the testing being done? To me and as you can tell, I'm a simple minded person, testing harvested deer is a better solution for everyone? Don't know if it's possible, or the cost? Hunters want to know the meat they eat is good, and TWRA wants CWD deer banned. Just my opinion, but if CWD spreads into our state it will be from live deer, not the harvested dead ones.

 

[Andy S.]

All because it came from another state that borders Tennessee but has ZERO cases of CWD?

It is a requirement for ALL CERVIDS killed outside of TN, regardless of where they were killed, not just the bordering states.

https://www.tn.gov/twra/hunting/cwd.html

Page 30 of H&T Guide:

So we are suppose to believe that CWD is more likely to be spread by dead deer bones than free ranging deer crossing an imaginary line?

Correct, considering there are tons of TN hunters who travel to other CWD States and CWD Zones, hunt, kill cervids, and then bring them back to our home state with no regard to CWD, and how it can be transmitted and spread unknowingly. So far as we know it, none of the bordering counties have CWD positive cervids at this point, thus the threat is minimal from them walking across an imaginary state line.

 

[Andy S.]

For example, I got this photo texted to me yesterday from a friend of mine. His coworker, who is a new to TN resident, drove out west, shot this elk, and is planning to drive back to west TN and take him to a taxidermist and get a Euro mount. By the way of my friend, I sent the new 2018 TN CWD Cervid regulations to this guy and told him to clean the skull plate up, get rid of eyeballs, meat, tissues, brain matter, etc if he wanted to minimize the chance for citation, confiscation and increase the likelihood the taxidermist would take it.

Long story short, neither my friend, nor his coworker have read any TWRA Hunting Guide or CWD Regulations. They are going at it blindly without a care in the world. This is how CWD gets introduced from CWD positive states and zones.