Smokeless CVA Scout conversion

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philsanchez76

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Jul 6, 2019
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Got my barrel back from Jeff Hankins. Went with the Direct Ignition system. Thx to all that helped inform my decision. I've already put over 100 shots through it (crazy I know given the scarcity of components) but it's just so fun to shoot compared to my old black powder muzzleloader or my 12 gauge slug gun. Been playing with full bore 45s as well as saboted 40s. Sightron STAC on top. I'm getting close to 2800 fps out of this sucker with less recoil than the 12 gauge slug loads going at 1200 fps. Life is good. But it won't be good for deer next season.

5611EE34-6E4A-4FA1-AB76-183CEE7C6EB7.png
 
If anyone has any solid bullet/powder combos they've been using lemme know. I'm trying as much as I can. So far the 40 cal Pittman Accumax is shooting best (sub 1 inches at 100 yards). Got some 45 cal Barnes solids to test out and so far haven't been able to get them under 3 inch groups. If anyone has some experience with copper lemme know too. Annealing maybe in my future????
 
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ADR said:
My apex will shoot 290gr Barnes tez's into the same hole with 60 grains of h4198. This has 209 ignition so please account for DI. I was blessed in that these bullets do not have to be sized to fit my barrel. I do use a veggie wad.

I can't remember velocity off hand but recoil is noticeable.
Click to expand...
Nice! Yes I do download 15 % from a 209 load and slowly work up. DI seems to produce quite a bit more pressure.
 
ADR said:
My apex will shoot 290gr Barnes tez's into the same hole with 60 grains of h4198. This has 209 ignition so please account for DI. I was blessed in that these bullets do not have to be sized to fit my barrel. I do use a veggie wad.

I can't remember velocity off hand but recoil is noticeable.
Click to expand...
I have an apex conversion that I've yet to shoot. I think mine uses rifle primers in the brass things. I'd be happy if it shoots that well and need to shoot it.
 
Antler Daddy said:
I have an apex conversion that I've yet to shoot. I think mine uses rifle primers in the brass things. I'd be happy if it shoots that well and need to shoot it.
Click to expand...
Who did your conversion?
Ignition type is HUGELY important in cross-referencing others loads. A lot of great people here to answer questions for you.
 
ADR said:
Who did your conversion?
Ignition type is HUGELY important in cross-referencing others loads. A lot of great people here to answer questions for you.
Click to expand...
You're right there can be large pressure differences just based on ignition type of all else in the load remains the same.
 
Nice setup, I tote a CVA Scout V2 that LOOKS just like yours, but is not direct ignition. Bestill Creations (Jeff Fisk) did my conversion, ASG 209 breech plug with carbide bushing. I use 60 grains H4198, harvester light blue sabots and .40 cal SSTs. Right at 2600 fps and a dream to tote and kill deer with.
 
Andy S. said:
Nice setup, I tote a CVA Scout V2 that LOOKS just like yours, but is not direct ignition. Bestill Creations (Jeff Fisk) did my conversion, ASG 209 breech plug with carbide bushing. I use 60 grains H4198, harvester light blue sabots and .40 cal SSTs. Right at 2600 fps and a dream to tote and kill deer with.
Click to expand...
Yessir I remember. You were instrumental in my decision to go with the scout. Loving it so far. I managed to snag about 40 of those .40 cal sst's to test. Man those things are hard to find right now!
 
Make sure you make double lung shots with those 40 cal sst's because they are explosive. No shoulder shots, etc.

Kyle Pittman of Pittman Bullets is an awesome guy. Meet him in person or talk with him on the phone and you will agree. Kyle lives about 45 minutes from me. When we started building 40 cal sml's with real magnum rifle twist rates and bore diameters (1:13.2 to 1:16 Rock Creek .408 Cheytac barrels), there weren't any good bullets out there. I went so far as to anneal, swage down some .411 Barnes bullets and then full form them. They shot pretty good though.
Kyle engineered the Accumax 225, 250, 275, and 300gr bullets, had dies made and had a test batch ran. I ran some loads with various powders in Quickload. He brought 12 of each weight bullets 225, 250, 275gr and I brought the never before fired loads and my rifle to the Norris rifle range. What transpired that day was nothing short of amazing. Here is one of the targets.
20170910_213504.jpg
THIS LOAD IS NOT FOR USE IN A BREAK ACTION.
A 225gr Accumax was propelled 3383fps into a .210" group at 120 yards by an untuned never before fired load. I have other groups from that day that are nearly this good with other powders and bullet weights. We also tested the 225gr saboted in Kyle's Krieger barreled 45 sml that day and saw right then that it would stabilize from a sabot and shoot accurately.
I can run a load for the saboted 225gr Accumax in a 45 break action with DI ignition. You could also use the 250gr 45 cal Accumax sabotless. If you're shooting sub moa with the 40 cal Accumax I'd say you have your load. Also, if you're getting 2800fps out of the 225gr bullet, you need to hunt with the hard core version that Kyle sells.

This target is a 250gr Varget load from that same session. 250gr bullet at 3401fps at 1/2 moa untuned load.
Screenshot_20220208-013203_Gallery.jpg
 
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philsanchez76 said:
Yessir I remember. You were instrumental in my decision to go with the scout. Loving it so far. I managed to snag about 40 of those .40 cal sst's to test. Man those things are hard to find right now!
Click to expand...
Some may frown on this, but nowadays I mainly hunt with these "factory seconds" bullets from Midway. Mine are yellow tipped, so likely Hornady factory second SSTs that were produced for Thompson Center. These are just the bullets, no sabots. They "look" perfect to me, I cannot see any blemishes so to speak. All of my shots are under 200, and 98% of them are under 100 yards, and I have been satisfied to date. I bought a box of these and will be set for life for "woods hunting", the way I hunt 99% of the time. I rarely ever hunt open fields with an opportunity to stretch it out, but occasionally do in the evenings.

.40 cal 200 grain SST
 
Andy S. said:
Double lungs is how I have aimed for 30 years, regardless of weapon, thus the 200 grain SSTs serve me well. 100% pass through to date, 50 yard tracking jobs, and 100% recovery.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The reason for my warning him was something that happened last year. I converted an H&R 45-70 about 5 years ago for a friend. His Parkinsons got bad and he quit hunting. I found a buyer for the gun scale, and all accessories including powder and bullets. Made the guy a deal at $500.
The buyer must be recoil shy or not a steady shot because he wounded 5 deer and didn't recover a single one. Said one ran off with a baseball sized wound on its shoulder.
I can also.tell you that I killed 2 deer the same season before we had Kyle's bullets. I shot them at ~100 and 200 yards. Both had the same exact effect. My muzzle velocity was right at 3000 fps. Both ethical broadside shots, both bullets entered the lungs and made a hard right turn. One or a large part of one exited between the hind legs and the other exited the belly. I nicknamed them "gutters" at that point.
 
Andy S. said:
Jerry - impressive shooting above with first class components. What does one of those SMLs weigh fully outfitted?
Click to expand...
If you watch component weights, especially barrel contour and length, a hunting gun with a 22" barrel could be had in the 8 to 9 pound range including scope. I'm sure that an 7 pound gun is possible with even lighter, more expensive components. My carry gun is 9.5lb. It is a 20"bbl but is a much heavier taper than needed. I would love to have it fluted to reduce weight but I'm scared to death it will be lost in shipping to or from Twisted Barrels. The plan was to machine a lug, weld it on, and install it on my H&R 45-70 Ultra Hunter frame but I ended up building Shorty Forty. She shoots a 300gr Pittman Aeromax hard-core over 83gr of imr4166 at 2750 fps.
20180917_124236.jpg
 
jlanecr500 said:
Make sure you make double lung shots with those 40 cal sst's because they are explosive. No shoulder shots, etc.

Kyle Pittman of Pittman Bullets is an awesome guy. Meet him in person or talk with him on the phone and you will agree. Kyle lives about 45 minutes from me. When we started building 40 cal sml's with real magnum rifle twist rates and bore diameters (1:13.2 to 1:16 Rock Creek .408 Cheytac barrels), there weren't any good bullets out there. I went so far as to anneal, swage down some .411 Barnes bullets and then full form them. They shot pretty good though.
Kyle engineered the Accumax 225, 250, 275, and 300gr bullets, had dies made and had a test batch ran. I ran some loads with various powders in Quickload. He brought 12 of each weight bullets 225, 250, 275gr and I brought the never before fired loads and my rifle to the Norris rifle range. What transpired that day was nothing short of amazing. Here is one of the targets. View attachment 128260THIS LOAD IS NOT FOR USE IN A BREAK ACTION.
A 225gr Accumax was propelled 3383fps into a .210" group at 120 yards by an untuned never before fired load. I have other groups from that day that are nearly this good with other powders and bullet weights. We also tested the 225gr saboted in Kyle's Krieger barreled 45 sml that day and saw right then that it would stabilize from a sabot and shoot accurately.
I can run a load for the saboted 225gr Accumax in a 45 break action with DI ignition. You could also use the 250gr 45 cal Accumax sabotless. If you're shooting sub moa with the 40 cal Accumax I'd say you have your load. Also, if you're getting 2800fps out of the 225gr bullet, you need to hunt with the hard core version that Kyle sells.

This target is a 250gr Varget load from that same session. 250gr bullet at 3401fps at 1/2 moa untuned load.
View attachment 128261
Click to expand...

Your groups are insane!! I love Pittman bullets. Yes I got to talk with Kyle on the phone when I ordered some bullets from him. Super cool guy. I actually did order the 40 cal 228 grain hardcores from him. I got those going at about 2600 fps right now. Super accurate. I'm definitely gonna be trying the 45 cals as well.
 
reloadxx said:
Have any of you all shot the Pittman bullets at a deer ? What was your out come on performance? I have a cva I need to send off and have converted
Click to expand...
250gr Accumax sabotless at around 2500 fps, which is the velocity you'll get with break action safe loads, is a deer thumper. You could also shoot the 253gr hard core which has a harder lead core. Go to the website and look around at Pittman Bullets.

Kyle Pitman and Bill Travis "Hillbill"
teamed up with Mesa actions to build custom muzzleloaders using a Mesa action designed by Bill and Mesa. Mesa footed the bill to go out west and ring steel at 1780 yards. Check out the video below



https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/11/30/ringing-steel-at-1780-with-a-muzzleloader/
 

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