Culling Albino-Melanistic-Piebald

[grundsow]

Heard talk of this idea, is there any sense to it from a QDM standpoint or other?

 

[BSK]

Albinism and piebaldism or genetic anomalies, and generally good things do not go along with that anomaly. They usually have all sorts of other genetic problems.

 

[boweye91]

But it is illegal to shoot a complete albino. Isn't it?

 

[BSK]

In TN, yes.

 

[BSK]

I may be way off base or on crack but for my views of QDM and managing a herd there is no such thing as a cull. Sure they look different but it is such a rare occurrence that it is more then likely not going to effect anything in the long run.

Areas that have protected albinos have seen a doubling of albinism. Now is that really a major concern? Not really. They are still a very small percentage of a herd and Nature generally takes care of them for us. Few albinos and piebalds live to maturity.

 

[grundsow]

Albinism and piebaldism or genetic anomalies, and generally good things do not go along with that anomaly. They usually have all sorts of other genetic problems.

Do these affected deer pass on these traits, making them a "threat" to the herd? Do they do it at a higher rate than their parents, making them a bigger threat? As a result, might a deer manager seek their removal?

You're serious that albinos are off limits in TN? Wow! What year is it?

 

[BSK]

Again, removing them is probably a good thing, but considering these problems are highly recessive traits, they will never become a significant percentage of the herd.

 

[Gravey]

In TN, yes.

What is the real reason that got changed a couple of years ago? I mean, if they're genetic screw-ups it seems you'd want them gone. I'm assuming the bunny huggers raised a stink because "they're too cute" or some B.S. like that but I'd really love to know what the "real" reason was.

 

[BSK]

Some legislator's wife probably thought the albino deer in their yard was cute and didn't want anyone to shoot it.

 

[BSK]

Some legislator's wife probably thought the albino deer in their yard was cute and didn't want anyone to shoot it.

They are cute and I personally would never shoot one because they look so sweet and fuzzy :D

And now you're going to try and sell me a bridge? ;)

 

[Boone 58]

And we as hunters go just let stupid laws get passed without protest cause we are clueless most of the time.

 

[Gravey]

Some legislator's wife probably thought the albino deer in their yard was cute and didn't want anyone to shoot it.

Did you ever see the one killed in Waverly a few years back? It used to frequent the back yard of one of my brother's students at the time and then all of a sudden they quit seeing it. Next thing you know it's picture was posted on the board at Hunt's (I think that's the name of the market on the corner of Hwy 70 & Clydeton Road). It was solid white and a buck if I remember correctly.

 

[BSK]

Nope, didn't see the picture, although I do stop into Hunt's from time to time. I wonder if they still have it up?

 

[Winchester]

I totally disagree with them being off limits, ridiculous law. I will say however that not all of them are inferior, some grow to be huge bucks!! I can post some pics if necessary!

 

[BigGameGuy]

I will say however that not all of them are inferior, some grow to be huge bucks!! I can post some pics if necessary!

I've mentioned this before but antler size is just a product of human imagination for superior genes. In other words, biological and species fitness has little to do with antler size. It's all about being able to breed successfully and produce viable offspring. Using that definition of superior genes, albinos are truly inferior.

 

[BSK]

I totally disagree with them being off limits, ridiculous law. I will say however that not all of them are inferior, some grow to be huge bucks!! I can post some pics if necessary!

True, some grow to be large mature animals, but there is a strong genetic link between albinism, piebaldism and all sorts of other genetic problems. They are not "positive" genetic traits.

 

[BSK]

As far as anyone can tell, antler size has no relationship to breeding success. In DNA parentage studies of free-ranging deer, often the most successful breeding bucks have only average size antlers. Antler size does not equate to what Nature is looking for in genetic fitness. It appears resistance to disease, health performance (body size and condition) under the nutritional limitations of the local area, and personal aggressiveness is what determines genetic fitness.

 

[Winchester]

I totally agree, and there is always an anomally, like the 2 dominant breeder bucks that are pure Albino's on 2 different farms In Iowa and illinois. Hours of Video shows these bucks succesfully breeding does and running other bucks off! They are at the top of their game! I know it isnt the norm but it happens!

 

[BSK]

I totally agree, and there is always an anomally, like the 2 dominant breeder bucks that are pure Albino's on 2 different farms In Iowa and illinois. Hours of Video shows these bucks succesfully breeding does and running other bucks off! They are at the top of their game! I know it isnt the norm but it happens!

First I want to see proof they are actually successfully reproducing. Are they actually the fathers of those does' offspring? Some does have been known to be bred by up to 7 different bucks in 48 hours. What matters genetically is who the actual father of the offspring is.

 

[Winchester]

I totally agree, and there is always an anomally, like the 2 dominant breeder bucks that are pure Albino's on 2 different farms In Iowa and illinois. Hours of Video shows these bucks succesfully breeding does and running other bucks off! They are at the top of their game! I know it isnt the norm but it happens!

First I want to see proof they are actually successfully reproducing. Are they actually the fathers of those does' offspring? Some does have been known to be bred by up to 7 different bucks in 48 hours. What matters genetically is who the actual father of the offspring is.

Well now BSK, I cant prove who Daddy is, but I can show you video of them, puttem on their knees if you know what I mean!! They may be sterile, but they sure are having fun hiding it!! Do you have scientific proof that any wild free ranging buck is actually succesful at breeding without comparing DNA?

 

[Gravey]

Nope, didn't see the picture, although I do stop into Hunt's from time to time. I wonder if they still have it up?

I don't know. It was probably 5 or so years ago. My brother lives on Clydeton about 2 miles or so past Hunts and I'd ask him to look next time he's in there but they left yesterday to go camping for 9 days. If I remember when he gets back I'll ask him to look.

 

[Boone 58]

yea and an advocate for Peta as well.

 

[BSK]

I totally agree, and there is always an anomally, like the 2 dominant breeder bucks that are pure Albino's on 2 different farms In Iowa and illinois. Hours of Video shows these bucks succesfully breeding does and running other bucks off! They are at the top of their game! I know it isnt the norm but it happens!

First I want to see proof they are actually successfully reproducing. Are they actually the fathers of those does' offspring? Some does have been known to be bred by up to 7 different bucks in 48 hours. What matters genetically is who the actual father of the offspring is.

Well now BSK, I cant prove who Daddy is, but I can show you video of them, puttem on their knees if you know what I mean!! They may be sterile, but they sure are having fun hiding it!! Do you have scientific proof that any wild free ranging buck is actually succesful at breeding without comparing DNA?

That just goes to show how odds work. I've seen pictures of some whopper mature albino bucks before. Albanism/piebaldism usually go hand-in-hand with other genetic problems, but not always.

The only way to know who the father of a fawn is is to compare DNA. There are a couple of very interesting long-term studies on this. They collect DNA from dropped antlers, harvested deer, and fawns they capture each year. They do not have DNA samples from all of the deer in the area, but a large percentage. Who is actually fathering the fawns is some fascinating data.