arkwaterfowler
Well-Known Member
i think the OP is saying a lot of hunters us cull as an excuse to shoot a spike or subpar 2.5.
Cull buck?
- Thread starter timberjack86
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You gotta toss in "dirt nap" when you walk up to it
The only thing I "cull" nowadays are fish and I really don't do that much anymore since I stopped fishing tournaments.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
The best thing about owning your own land is you get to call a 'cull' a 'cull', you get to set harvest standards for the property, and what anyone else thinks doesn't mean squat 
On my properties, you get 1 buck per year... you pick it. I don't restrict anyone based on age or antlers. But pull the trigger, and you're done hunting for the year. Because of this restricted buck harvest, we typically have an excellent buck age structure. With multiple mature bucks roaming, most adult hunters became even more selective than just killing a mature buck. In fact, all adult hunters weren't going to kill something unless is was mature PLUS 125" or so or better. It's just became too easy to kill ANY mature buck, and season ended before rifle even started.
But that presented a new set of problems. The mature bucks that had subpar antlers were being passed up year after year. Those 5.5 and 6.5 y/os were often times the most agressive bucks causing injuries to the up and coming 3.5 yo's... sometimes lethal injuries. Sure, we managed to get kids on them occasionally, but for the most part, neither us nor the neighbors were killing mature bucks under 120". The neighbors were happily killing two 130" 3.5 y/o's annually each however.
So that's when I went to my management strategy with a twist about 5 years ago... 1 'buck of choice'.... you pick it, PLUS you also get 1 'cull' buck per year. I own the land, my rules, my definition. My hunters know a 'cull' is a 4.5 y/o that scores less than 120" with an intact rack (broken beams or points do not count as a cull). I have a list of 'cull' bucks that I've aged from trail camera photos that everyone has access to. If a buck a hunter thinks meets the definition of 'cull' shows up (4.5 y/o, less than 120"), but I have not captured on camera, the hunter can shoot it as his 'cull' and not count as his 'buck of choice', but they have to save the jawbone and I will age it. If the jawbone shows less than 4.5yo wear pattern, it becomes their 'buck of choice' and they lose their 'buck of choice' tag the following year.
For many, this sounds ridiculously restrictive. But I can promise you, every single person who hunts my farms LOVES it, and my neighbors love it even more.
On my properties, you get 1 buck per year... you pick it. I don't restrict anyone based on age or antlers. But pull the trigger, and you're done hunting for the year. Because of this restricted buck harvest, we typically have an excellent buck age structure. With multiple mature bucks roaming, most adult hunters became even more selective than just killing a mature buck. In fact, all adult hunters weren't going to kill something unless is was mature PLUS 125" or so or better. It's just became too easy to kill ANY mature buck, and season ended before rifle even started.
But that presented a new set of problems. The mature bucks that had subpar antlers were being passed up year after year. Those 5.5 and 6.5 y/os were often times the most agressive bucks causing injuries to the up and coming 3.5 yo's... sometimes lethal injuries. Sure, we managed to get kids on them occasionally, but for the most part, neither us nor the neighbors were killing mature bucks under 120". The neighbors were happily killing two 130" 3.5 y/o's annually each however.
So that's when I went to my management strategy with a twist about 5 years ago... 1 'buck of choice'.... you pick it, PLUS you also get 1 'cull' buck per year. I own the land, my rules, my definition. My hunters know a 'cull' is a 4.5 y/o that scores less than 120" with an intact rack (broken beams or points do not count as a cull). I have a list of 'cull' bucks that I've aged from trail camera photos that everyone has access to. If a buck a hunter thinks meets the definition of 'cull' shows up (4.5 y/o, less than 120"), but I have not captured on camera, the hunter can shoot it as his 'cull' and not count as his 'buck of choice', but they have to save the jawbone and I will age it. If the jawbone shows less than 4.5yo wear pattern, it becomes their 'buck of choice' and they lose their 'buck of choice' tag the following year.
For many, this sounds ridiculously restrictive. But I can promise you, every single person who hunts my farms LOVES it, and my neighbors love it even more.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
And what's more... you would think hunters might be discouraged about being tagged out after just 1 buck. But nope, everyone is thrilled with the buck they chose to shoot, because THEY made the decision.
A great example, my son shot this 2.5 yo buck as his buck of choice. The following morning, he had this 4.5yo buck tending a doe in front of him for 15 minutes and couldn't shoot him. I asked him if he had any regrets, he said no, he was thrilled with his buck and just enjoyed watching the big buck tending the doe 75yds away.
Incidentally, the 4.5yo in the trail cam pic was passed by one of my friends during ML... just wasn't quite what he was looking for, didn't have the 'wow' factor to him
A great example, my son shot this 2.5 yo buck as his buck of choice. The following morning, he had this 4.5yo buck tending a doe in front of him for 15 minutes and couldn't shoot him. I asked him if he had any regrets, he said no, he was thrilled with his buck and just enjoyed watching the big buck tending the doe 75yds away.
Incidentally, the 4.5yo in the trail cam pic was passed by one of my friends during ML... just wasn't quite what he was looking for, didn't have the 'wow' factor to him
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Bon3_Daddy
Well-Known Member
i let small yearling ones walk if i have one in the freezer, but meats meat!
In the 80s a cull buck was any buck with at least a 3in or more of antler on him.If i remember right you could kill 10 bucks in unit A and you could go to unit B and kill 1 more buck.They were all cull bucks back then.Never heard of cull in the 80s
Cheshire
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem with people hunting however they want. Just make a clean kill and no excuses
Omega
Well-Known Member
I don't have a management plan. I shoot what I want, and the younger ones seem to taste better. The only thing I would "cull", is a sick or injured deer. I just try and make sure they are over 100 lbs, so when I send these to a processor for my friends, it is worth their money. For me, a young one, out of spots, is my goal.
A cull buck on my place is a mature buck who's never been and shows no sign of ever being a trophy size. Every buck like that who use or live on my property are taking up space and consuming resources that otherwise could be supporting more promising animals. So they get culled. I also cull aggressively territorial does who chase away any deer that isn't her offspring.
I worked very hard my entire life so that I could buy a piece of dirt to call my own and hunt it. I invest a lot of time, money, thought, and sweat molding it into a big buck hunting property. My objective is to have an exciting hunt where I always have very high odds of seeing and hopefully tagging a big buck. Yes I love venison and I hunt for meat. But I'm not a single faceted man. I'm complex enough of a human to stack multiple objectives, so my meat hunt comes with a big set of horns to serve as a memento, or what some hunters call a trophy.
If going out & shooting whatever willy nilly deer you want just for the meat is what makes you happy then knock yourself out. Nobody's judging you. But I don't personally find that very fun. What's fun for me is owning the land, working the habitat, monitoring the herd & being familiar with every deer, seeing them grow into trophies, and attempting to harvest one of them. It's a comprehensive effort that I find incredibly rewarding. Part of that process is culling animals that work against my goals, and stupid an idea as that may seem to some, it's an effective tactic. And it's not about genetics. I have only so many acres and it holds only so many deer. Every 120" 5yr old is a preventing a potential trophy. He's got to go. Every troublesome doe keeping guard over a plot or mineral site keeps bucks and/or other doe groups away. She's got to go. It's a never ending uphill battle but I enjoy every minute of it. It's part of the process on my place.
That is what a cull buck(or doe) is, explained in my terms for my purposes. Your property may have a different meaning for the term, but in my experience most everybody who works habitat for deer hunting defines a cull the same way. With bigger properties a cull can plausibly steer genetics. On a small place like mine it merely makes room for a deer that might be more promising. That's it in a nutshell.
I had passed him as a 3.5,4.5, and 5.5. He was actually a bully and as soon as i shot him other bucks started showing up including a 4.5 year old 140" 10 pt.
Notice how huge his body is.i am 6'1" and 215 lbs. he makes me look small.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
perfect example of a cull.
And you are correct, one of those will often push out other more desirable bucks from the area.
That is a exactly what a cull is and why. Removing him allows space for possibly higher potential deer. He was working against you, and now he'll feed you.
"Cull" is misused a lot. "Management Buck" is a more appropriate, but like many have said, it's your land, your rules. Name your buck what you want, kill them for whatever reason you want. TO ME...a cull buck is a buck that has a genetic issue of some sort. Example: I had what appeared to be a 3.5 y/o walk by be with a moose antler looking paddle on one side and a straight spike on the other, aka...genetically "off". That's a buck I'd want to take out of the gene pool on my property, wasn't my property so I let him walk. Just my opinion of the term "cull".
"Cull" is actually the correct term, according to the definition of the word. Should we should stop using the word "bra" and instead start calling them breast support devices? It's just semantics.
After reading ski's post and seeing Hillbillies buck I definitely understand alot better than before. Thanks
I like the term, "booby trap"!!!
DeerCamp
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And that's great, I just wish we would stop using the term cull buck because of the implication that it is impacting genetics. It isn't, and creates a lot of misconception.
But one VERY VERY IMPORTANT point to make where I think he made the right call shooting the buck regardless.
From a management standpoint removing this buck from the herd may open up the territory for a buck with higher potential.
Regardless of rack size, a 250lb buck in Tennessee is probably going to have a strong impact on his range.
DeerCamp
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I don't think it's so much about the literal definition of a cull which is versatile, but the fact that hunters have been conditioned by TV to tie this to improving genetics.
BSK
Well-Known Member
TheLBLman, Megalomaniac, Hillbilly Hunter and Ski all had great discussions about cull/management bucks. I too don't like the term "cull" simply because of its old link to the idea of improving genetics by taking out "inferior" genes. This is an incorrect concept (as does probably carry more of the genetics for antler size/shape).
But call it what you want, cull buck, management buck, whatever. I use the technique for clients just as Megalomanic described - to removed a mature buck that will never be a trophy and is just "taking up resources" that could go to another, larger buck. And for most clubs, they use these management bucks as a "bonus buck" that doesn't go towards their self-imposed limit/criteria.
But call it what you want, cull buck, management buck, whatever. I use the technique for clients just as Megalomanic described - to removed a mature buck that will never be a trophy and is just "taking up resources" that could go to another, larger buck. And for most clubs, they use these management bucks as a "bonus buck" that doesn't go towards their self-imposed limit/criteria.
