Coyote impact study in north georgia!

[Boone 58]

http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=347
Great read for those interested in some studies of coyote impact!!!!!
Eye opening!

 

[Boone 58]

Would like feedback and discussion from you guys.

 

[RKenney]

Coyotes don't just kill fawns. I know that they have a major
impact on fawn production.......BUT. I know for a fact that
packs of coyotes kill grown deer. I am sure it's not as
pronounced as the fawn loss, but I think it's more prevelant
than even the biologist realize.

Graphs and charts are a great tool, no doubt, but but night time
kills by "packs" of coyotes.....sometimes can't be "charted".
They are pack animals just like most dog like predators. Even
big deer can be harrassed and eventually killed by enough yotes.

They have cooperative instincts, amoungest one another.
Thousands of fire ants can take down a 250 lb. man, 5 or 6
coyotes can take down a 250lb. buck, when the plan comes
together.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

You cant kill them out so the only way to combat predation is to provide your deer with plenty of escape cover. Trapping and what not may help but there is no way possible to get rid of them, they are here and here to stay.

 

[buckdead]

wouldnt worry so much about the deer, but the turkeys now thats a diffrent story. i have personally seeen the turkey population go down the last three years due to yotes on my stompin ground. two people have called em up while turkey hunting and killed them while hunting with me. had one kill my decoy. tried trapping them, but that just aint my gift.

 

[Boone 58]

Good point buckdead, when i first got in the lease in wayne county we had more turkeys than i had ever seen in my lifetime and i am not exagerrating any. around every curve in the road was a flock and it wasnt uncommon to see upwards on 100 birds every trip. now i have been 45 times since and including bow season in the last of each three seasons and cant hardly see more than one flock. I am really concerned about "what" is happening to them. I dont hunt them with any regularity in turkey season but have taken one with the Hoyt razor tec and would kill more in bow season should the opportunity present itself. I wonder about the impact of armadillos on turkey eggs since that is the only variable that has changed since then. Arma populations have skyrocketed!!!!!!!!!

 

[BigGameGuy]

Mother Nature at its finest!

It is so gratifying to see things coming into balance in the natural world. As with any other predator, coyotes are part of the natural equation. In some areas they carry more weight into that equation, in other areas they carry less. Fawn recruitment is an integral part of QDM so land managers should have a feel as to what is going on on their properties. They can then make wise management decisions to meet their goals.

FYI - There's also been some interesting research that has been conducted on the Savannah River that uses the intensive trapping of predators prior to fawn drop to increase their fawn recruitment rates. That is a good read as well.

 

[Boone 58]

Thanks, BGG!!
I love it all!

 

[BSK]

Graphs and charts are a great tool, no doubt, but but night time
kills by "packs" of coyotes.....sometimes can't be "charted".

Anything can be charted with the right study design. I realize it is Human Nature to trust "common sense" over charts and graphs, but science--the only way know anything with certainty--is charts and graphs. It is a process of converting natural processes into numeric forms so they can be tracked and tested.

If we rely on common sense alone we will miss much of what is really happening. The more Nature is studied the more we find it doesn't work by common sense rules but by processes complex beyond our wildlest dreams. Only charts and graphs can decipher that complexity.

 

[BSK]

http://www.gon.com/article.php?id=347
Great read for those interested in some studies of coyote impact!!!!!
Eye opening!

The idea that coyotes are having a significant impact on fawn survival is of growing interest within the research community. I completely agree with Dr. Miller's views.

 

[Anonymous]

there was a great episode of the QDMA show on outdoor channel about a study of coyote predation on deer fawns. i bet bsk knows, but if i remember correctly, the yotes were getting a large majority of the fawns, around 70%?? in that area. most likely the truth is, if they weren't killing them, you would be overrun with deer pretty quickly. i still hate em.

.

 

[Dean Parisian]

One of the finest methods of growing deer herds is a head-high pile of coyote and bobcat pelts headed to market. It usually takes more experienced trappers to pound down coyote populations, bobcats can be caught by nearly anyone.

On a related note, look at the elk calf recruitment in Yellowstone Park and see what a mess that will be in just a few more years as the herd matures, from the wolves and bear.

My trapping gang in Cumberland County has knocked out a few coyotes and bobcats under some tough trapping conditions this past week. If snares were legal across the entire state it would sure help. And that is something all deer hunters can lobby TWRA for. The politics involved with the snaring issue in some counties defy common-sense big-game management, as snares are extremely effective on coyotes and bobcats.

 

[CWT]

One of the finest methods of growing deer herds is a head-high pile of coyote and bobcat pelts headed to market. It usually takes more experienced trappers to pound down coyote populations, bobcats can be caught by nearly anyone.

On a related note, look at the elk calf recruitment in Yellowstone Park and see what a mess that will be in just a few more years as the herd matures, from the wolves and bear.

My trapping gang in Cumberland County has knocked out a few coyotes and bobcats under some tough trapping conditions this past week. If snares were legal across the entire state it would sure help. And that is something all deer hunters can lobby TWRA for. The politics involved with the snaring issue in some counties defy common-sense big-game management, as snares are extremely effective on coyotes and bobcats.

I know what you are saying about the not being able to use snares all over the state but, I can't find it in the hunting/ trapping/ guide this year but I could be wrong. If you see it let me know.

Yes to all hunters.. snares are deadly for yotes. I love'em!!

 

[Joe Stephenson]

I hunt coyotes regularly and all year, if you would like someone to try to thin your coyote heard, just give me a shout.

 

[megalomaniac]

Graphs and charts are a great tool, no doubt, but but night time
kills by "packs" of coyotes.....sometimes can't be "charted".

Anything can be charted with the right study design. I realize it is Human Nature to trust "common sense" over charts and graphs, but science--the only way know anything with certainty--is charts and graphs. It is a process of converting natural processes into numeric forms so they can be tracked and tested.

If we rely on common sense alone we will miss much of what is really happening. The more Nature is studied the more we find it doesn't work by common sense rules but by processes complex beyond our wildlest dreams. Only charts and graphs can decipher that complexity.

Problem with 'science' is that so many of the studies are simply observational or very poorly designed. I would surmise 3/4 of the published 'studies' out there are so poorly designed or lack enough statistical power to truly be proven.

Don't get me wrong... I'm a data freak also. But before you accept any study as gospel, make sure you understand the design, it's flaws, and whether it really is statistically significant.

 

[megalomaniac]

Neat thing about coyotes' biology. They're population dependent, just as deer are... but in times of plenty they can alter their litter size. I've heard reports of up to 15 pups/ litter. It may therefore be possible to alter their population short-term... but they're only a year or two away from repopulating right back to where they were before.

 

[BSK]

Don't get me wrong... I'm a data freak also. But before you accept any study as gospel, make sure you understand the design, it's flaws, and whether it really is statistically significant.

I totally agree mega.

 

[BigGameGuy]

Don't get me wrong... I'm a data freak also. But before you accept any study as gospel, make sure you understand the design, it's flaws, and whether it really is statistically significant.

No truer words ever spoken. So much of today's "science" is pure horsehockey. Much of this gets published in today's antler magazines and unfortunately it gets accepted as fact. Unless you have peer reviewed publications that undergo the rigors of scientific testing and statistical significance, you've got nothing more than opinion pieces and pure hypotheses. Critical thinking is essential when it comes to science, unfortunately that gets lost in today's product-driven world.

 

[CWT]

Neat thing about coyotes' biology. They're population dependent, just as deer are... but in times of plenty they can alter their litter size. I've heard reports of up to 15 pups/ litter. It may therefore be possible to alter their population short-term... but they're only a year or two away from repopulating right back to where they were before.

You are right but, a considerable difference can be made in a coyote population with an extensive trapping program.
As an example we had a terrable coyote problem, well after catching 12 coyotes in one area ( 5 acre tract ) and several others close by for a total of 32 in two years we have not had any problems with high numbers sence.
You have to take it as an ongoing project, year to year. You may catch 6-20 yotes in one area (1 square mile or so) the first year then after that it may be just 1 or 2 yotes every year after that. Then you have an controlable population. Yotes also will learn to avoid an area if danger is near or they start seeing their mates in traps. I just make trapping a yearly thing right after hunting season as part of my deer and wildlife managment program. I really like the challenge of trapping & the money for the fur is not to bad until the economy went down plus I like to see a big alpha male bouncing in a foot hold. All most as good as getting a big buck

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Good point buckdead, when i first got in the lease in wayne county we had more turkeys than i had ever seen in my lifetime and i am not exagerrating any. around every curve in the road was a flock and it wasnt uncommon to see upwards on 100 birds every trip. now i have been 45 times since and including bow season in the last of each three seasons and cant hardly see more than one flock. I am really concerned about "what" is happening to them. I dont hunt them with any regularity in turkey season but have taken one with the Hoyt razor tec and would kill more in bow season should the opportunity present itself. I wonder about the impact of armadillos on turkey eggs since that is the only variable that has changed since then. Arma populations have skyrocketed!!!!!!!!!

Camoman270,
I've been wondering what impact that the armadillos have on the turkeys. We've went from a flock of about 200 to less than 100 in the last 3 years.

 

[CWT]

Bobcats, skunks, coyotes, foxes, coons. All are preditors of turkeys/ eggs/ polts. If you have turkeys you have bobcats for sure. Skunks may be controlled by the coyote population. Coons get the eggs as well as foxes. I must say I would assume the armadillos would get the eggs as well be I really can not say for sure as they are not in my end of the state.

I plant food plots, warm season grasses, have sanctuaries, let the young ones walk but I also have preditor control / trapping that I do right after the deer season is over. It is just as important peace of the puzzle in a managment program in my opinion.

I really encourage "ALL" hunters that want to make an impact and help their deer & turkey population regardless if you feel like you are fighting a loosing battle to learn to trap. You will see a differnce in your deer and turkeys plus it is down right fun. Find someone with some experience before you go and start setting traps all over place or buy any as they are expensive and you need to get what will work go for you. You can do more damage and educate your quary and that can make them very hard to catch.

Always if you can share your trapping with a child as they too can get just as excited as you will be when you check your traps. Who knows in the future they may very well become your main sourse and go to person for your preditor control. Learn to handle your fur and send it off to NAFA to be sold even if the economy is bad. "Trapping is a Lost Art that is Rich in History and Family Fun"

 

[buckdead]

i read GUIDE TO TRAPPING to see if i could have a effect on the yote population, but after reading i realized it takes alot time and little bit of money to get started doing it right. plus it takes quite a bit of skill to catch coyotes from my reading. think ill be off getting a yote caller.

 

[Boone 58]

Camoman270,
I've been wondering what impact that the armadillos have on the turkeys. We've went from a flock of about 200 to less than 100 in the last 3 years. [/quote]

BGG.........any studies done on armadillo effects on turkey eggs?

 

[BigGameGuy]

BGG.........any studies done on armadillo effects on turkey eggs?

That I do not know.

 

[Dean Parisian]

"armadillo effects on turkey eggs"

Google it.

 

[ghosthunter]

I'd say coyotes are pretty smart animals and once they learn how work together to take down deer that's probably what they'll always try to do. There are probably more deer than rabbits.