Conflicting evidence and CWD

[Bone Collector]

I don't think many of these people publishing articles KNOW for sure that what they write is correct. However, I see a lot of articles, studies, expert opinions etc. that speak as if they know for fact they are correct.

Bastien at LSU thinks it is bacterial/viral, but most think it is a prion disease. AT posted an study that seems to point to it definitely being a prion disease. However others (other than Bastien) think it is a bacteria of virus, and the prions are formed later in the life cycle of the disease. this could be why it escapes detection early on (no prions).

here is an article that sites a Yale neurology professor who believes it is NOT a prion disease.

https://www.nwaonline.com/news/2019/feb ... er0KeG5YqU

 

[Bone Collector]

to add to the above. I think there is too much info, and no one really knows what they are talking about. IMO they should not publish stuff either way until they do comprehensive studies. all it does is promote fear based on "expert" opinions.

 

[duckduck84]

to add to the above. I think there is too much info, and no one really knows what they are talking about. IMO they should not publish stuff either way until they do comprehensive studies. all it does is promote fear based on "expert" opinions.

I have worked in the healthcare environment all of my adult life and have been fortunate enough to work with and know some amazing minds. Beautiful, intelligent, hardheaded, stubborn as hell minds. The good thing about science is it has made many, many advancements. The bad thing is that they don't much care to disprove something once they have "proven" it. History is rife with proof of this.

In my opinion, based on my research and admittedly amateur knowledge of the subject, I think the evidence presented that the prion is a symptom and not a cause makes more sense.

 

[DaveB]

The folded prion is a symptom? Something else (bacteria or virus?) is causing prions to fold which results in BSE, vCJD, and CJD?

Okay, I can follow that line of thinking.

But why then should humans avoid consumption of positive test result venison? The prions once folded are capable of reproducing that effect without the initiating bacteria/virus? It is self-replicating? A healthy prion can be folded because other prions are folded? No bacteria/virus to initiate the fold? This is where you lost me. What is causing a healthy prion to fold?

 

[BULL MOOSE]

to add to the above. I think there is too much info, and no one really knows what they are talking about. IMO they should not publish stuff either way until they do comprehensive studies. all it does is promote fear based on "expert" opinions.

I have worked in the healthcare environment all of my adult life and have been fortunate enough to work with and know some amazing minds. Beautiful, intelligent, hardheaded, stubborn as hell minds. The good thing about science is it has made many, many advancements. The bad thing is that they don't much care to disprove something once they have "proven" it. History is rife with proof of this.

In my opinion, based on my research and admittedly amateur knowledge of the subject, I think the evidence presented that the prion is a symptom and not a cause makes more sense.

Makes sense

 

[fairchaser]

The article stated that Dr Bastian claimed to have cured scrapie in a sheep with a common antibiotic tetracycline. That should be easy enough to prove. In the wake of a Nobel prize and millions of dollars why the heck hasn't he proved it in a decade. Because he can't.

 

[double browtine]

I think it is just a fabricated attack on our hunting heritage! It's real just like EHD. But all the conflicting information, makes me think it's just another way to discourage more people to quit hunting. Kind like they say there is to much mercury in certain fish and we should not eat them.

 

[Bone Collector]

I think it is just a fabricated attack on our hunting heritage!

I'm not going to lie. I think this is at least part of it.

 

[fairchaser]

I think it is just a fabricated attack on our hunting heritage! It's real just like EHD. But all the conflicting information, makes me think it's just another way to discourage more people to quit hunting. Kind like they say there is to much mercury in certain fish and we should not eat them.

The problem with conspiracies is that a whole lot of people have to keep a big secret. That can't happen especially over a long period of time. They would also need to convince all the state wildlife agencies whose livelihoods depend on hunting. It just doesn't seem like it's possible for all this to be a giant hoax on the American hunter propagated by antihunters or such group.

 

[MUP]

IMO it seems just mostly since it was found in Tennessee. Other states seem to have been rebounding sufficiently from the initial finding of CWD in their deer population. And this takes nothing away from the severity of the situation, but so far the world hasn't ended for the whitetail deer, and this has been evident since, what, back in the 60's?

 

[AT Hiker]

Other states seem to have been rebounding sufficiently from the initial finding of CWD in their deer population. ?

I don't believe this is true. Maybe if you take into account zones outside of CWD infected areas the populations are probably ok, more of an average of you will.

Wisconsin just did a study and infected males are twice as likely to die within the year as non infected males.




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[MUP]

Are deer populations in these other states continuing to decline?

 

[Tiny]

to add to the above. I think there is too much info, and no one really knows what they are talking about. IMO they should not publish stuff either way until they do comprehensive studies. all it does is promote fear based on "expert" opinions.

I have worked in the healthcare environment all of my adult life and have been fortunate enough to work with and know some amazing minds. Beautiful, intelligent, hardheaded, stubborn as hell minds. The good thing about science is it has made many, many advancements. The bad thing is that they don't much care to disprove something once they have "proven" it. History is rife with proof of this.

In my opinion, based on my research and admittedly amateur knowledge of the subject, I think the evidence presented that the prion is a symptom and not a cause makes more sense.

I tend to agree with that but what do I know an a Depolarable LOL

 

[megalomaniac]

Deer populations are not affected by the disease until you get above a certain threshold... IIRC, 15 to 20%. Extremely low prevalence rates have virtually no impact. Moderate rates fo 10 to 15 % don't affect the population, but negatively affect the age structure

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[CBU93]

IMO it seems just mostly since it was found in Tennessee. Other states seem to have been rebounding sufficiently from the initial finding of CWD in their deer population. And this takes nothing away from the severity of the situation, but so far the world hasn't ended for the whitetail deer, and this has been evident since, what, back in the 60's?

50 or 60 years is nothing in relative terms over time. A steady flow of water will eventually change what it touches given enough time.

 

[MUP]

Deer populations are not affected by the disease until you get above a certain threshold... IIRC, 15 to 20%. Extremely low prevalence rates have virtually no impact. Moderate rates fo 10 to 15 % don't affect the population, but negatively affect the age structure

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Thanks for those details mega. Have any of the affected areas in the country reached or are close to the 15 to 20% threshold yet?

 

[mike243]

Where do I buy a tinfoil hat? cant believe that some folks think this is a effort by some to stop hunting :o ,reckon I need to try the tfh to see who is trying to do what to whom :tu: ,really this is serious business and trying to make it into something it aint is pitiful IMO ,next thing ya know we will find out TWRA has been releasing all those snakes and yotes

 

[fairchaser]

Attached is an interview of Dr. Bastian about his claims. Seems legit but he believes that all the money is wrongly on prion research and he claims he isn't in it for the money or fame. Just wants to see a cure.
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/arti ... ian-speaks

 

[double browtine]

Attached is an interview of Dr. Bastian about his claims. Seems legit but he believes that all the money is wrongly on prion research and he claims he isn't in it for the money or fame. Just wants to see a cure.
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/arti ... ian-speaks

Good read fairchaser! Interesting how all the samples in TN are only being sent to one place to determine if the deer is positive for CWD. Is all this money driven just like the prion research?

 

[AT Hiker]

Deer populations are not affected by the disease until you get above a certain threshold... IIRC, 15 to 20%. Extremely low prevalence rates have virtually no impact. Moderate rates fo 10 to 15 % don't affect the population, but negatively affect the age structure

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Thanks for those details mega. Have any of the affected areas in the country reached or are close to the 15 to 20% threshold yet?

Yes, two Wisconsin counties have a rate of 30% or more. They are Northeast Iowa and Northwest Dane Counties.


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[AT Hiker]

To megas point;
From my understanding prevalence rates do matter but how much depends on the hunter harvest.

Basically, as prevalence rates increase and harvest percent doesn't change the population declines.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0163592


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