Clear cut land

[Creek]

We are thinking about buying 100 acres that has just been recently clear cut. Nothing left but a few piles of debris and all the stumps look to still be there. My question is would you have all the stumps removed or just let stuff grow back up naturally ? How long before trees get any height ? Im not just asking for the sake of wildlife but also the value of the land after a few years. Any thoughts on what you would do ?

 

[Boone 58]

I will defer to Bsk....it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish overall.....and that is important.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

I would plant a lot of it in pine, and try to 10% to 20% in openings and foodplots.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

Depends on the species of trees that were cut. Alot of species will sprout back from the stump (Coppice regeneration), including many desirable oaks. So, I would not remove all the stumps unless they are from species you do not want. You might consider helping regeneration along by planting tree species you want this winter.

As mentioned before, you might consider creating some openings.

 

[Chaneylake]

leave it alone, the first 5 years you will think that you are in a jungle, then it will start to open up some, in about 10-12 years you will start wishing it was back like it is now

 

[Truedouble]

I would view that as an opportunity to literally create your preferred hunting habitat. You could create openings, plant trees, plant warm season grasses etc. One thing you will not have to worry about during the first 5-7 years is cover. If you do buy it I would definitely request BSK's services.

 

[Bayou Buck]

You will probably get 7 to 8ft of growth from the polar stumps and some oaks in 2 years. I would remove all the stumps and clear where you want your foodplots and fields and then let the rest just grow up.

Here is a pic of some clearcut after two years.

 

[BSK]

PRB,

Consider it a "blank slate" to work with. Develop a long-term habitat plan, laying out all the different habitat you want and where it will be. Only remove the stumps from the locations you do not want timber to regrow. Areas you consider planting in pines (exceptional cover habitat) do not need to be destumped either.

As for growth rates, everything depends on slope aspect (direction the slope faces) and spring/summer rains. In wet conditions, northwest, north, and northeast facing slopes can have enough natural growth to act as cover after just two growing seasons (two full spring-summer seasons after timber removal). The slowest growing slopes will be the south and southwest facing slopes, which can require 4-5 years of growth to be considered good cover. The "good cover" stage will last until about 6-8 years for the northern slopes and up to a dozen years or more for the southern slopes. After that, the hardwood regrowth grows into the pole-timber stage (lots of forearm sized trees with little undergrowth). Woods that can be hunted (have visibility to shoot through) can take as little as 10 years for northern slopes and as long as 20 years for south-facing slopes. Planted pines stay good cover for more years than hardwoods.

Of course, don't forget that before the regrowing clear-cuts have grown into the "cover" stage, they are phenomenal natural food producers, often producing up to a 1,000 pounds of deer forage per acre per year.

The biggest problem with big clear-cuts is first, they are virtually unlimited food (a good thing), but that high food volume can produce an explosion in the deer population. Then these regrowing areas start losing their food production value as they grow into thick cover. This means you have an exploding number of deer, but decreasing food production and increasing, virtually unlimited cover for deer to hide in, making it very difficult to control the burgeoning deer population (you can't control population through harvest because you can't see the deer to shoot them). Then these cut areas all begin losing their cover value as they grow into the pole-timber stange--one of the growth stages that produces virtually nothing of value to deer (no weed, vine or acorn foods, and no cover) and deer begin to abandon the area. That's why it's so important to plan ahead and create long term food and cover resources before the clear-cuts begin the regrowth process. Where will you want permanent food sources (food plots and/or constantly restarted early-stage natural regrowth) far into the future? Where will you want permanent cover? Where will you want permanent openings for shooting?

 

[Football Hunter]

Nothing much harder than clearing stumps,its easier to take down a whole tree,than just a stump,leverage thing,Be very time consuming and costly.

 

[Football Hunter]

One thing you can do,at least for gun season,is build a couple shooting houses up high,and make some hub a spur type plots.Good pics of this in the QDMA food plot book.Maybe BSK can post some pics of this,since he is one of the authors.

 

[BSK]

Nothing much harder than clearing stumps,its easier to take down a whole tree,than just a stump,leverage thing,Be very time consuming and costly.

True, but you work with what you have. And I promise you it will take less bulldozer time to clear the areas you want cleared before regrowth starts than after. And if adequate openings aren't created, the property will be unhuntable for a 5-8 period during peak cover growth.

 

[Football Hunter]

Nothing much harder than clearing stumps,its easier to take down a whole tree,than just a stump,leverage thing,Be very time consuming and costly.

True, but you work with what you have. And I promise you it will take less bulldozer time to clear the areas you want cleared before regrowth starts than after. And if adequate openings aren't created, the property will be unhuntable for a 5-8 period during peak cover growth.

Yeah,ok ,thought he was talking of clearing all the stumps on the whole place,which would be crazy to me.Im gonna add a plot when the loggers get done in one area,there will be 3 BIG stumps in the plot.Im just gonna put a $1 salt brick on em,it will kill em,done it before.Instead of paying a dozer guy to dig em out.

 

[BSK]

Yeah,ok ,thought he was talking of clearing all the stumps on the whole place,which would be crazy to me.

Yes it would!

Im gonna add a plot when the loggers get done in one area,there will be 3 BIG stumps in the plot.Im just gonna put a $1 salt brick on em,it will kill em,done it before.Instead of paying a dozer guy to dig em out.

Absolutely will kill them. So will painting the cut stump with concentrated Round-up.

I've left stumps to rot in food plots many a time. It takes a few years, but eventually they pull out of the ground pretty easy. Just don't forget where they are while mowing!!!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Just don't forget where they are while mowing!!!

Yup....Seen my dad once runnin down into a holler AFTER the tractor. A stump had bucked him off of it then kept goin

Salt or Round up should work fine.

BSK - Couldnt you just put some round up on it, then a few months later pour gas on it and burn it to the ground? That would make it alot more time-efficient

 

[BSK]

Just don't forget where they are while mowing!!!

Yup....Seen my dad once runnin down into a holler AFTER the tractor. A stump had bucked him off of it then kept goin

That's scary but funny!!!

BSK - Couldnt you just put some round up on it, then a few months later pour gas on it and burn it to the ground? That would make it alot more time-efficient

I can't remember the chemical, but there is product you can pour into holes you've drilled vertically in the stump and then light on fire. It will slowly burn the stump from the inside out. Takes a few days to burn out though.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Drillin holes makes sense. We have some pretty big drill bits. We have a few stumps we may need handle redneck style

 

[Bayou Buck]

Just don't forget where they are while mowing!!!

Yup....Seen my dad once runnin down into a holler AFTER the tractor. A stump had bucked him off of it then kept goin

That's scary but funny!!!

BSK - Couldnt you just put some round up on it, then a few months later pour gas on it and burn it to the ground? That would make it alot more time-efficient

I can't remember the chemical, but there is product you can pour into holes you've drilled vertically in the stump and then light on fire. It will slowly burn the stump from the inside out. Takes a few days to burn out though.

I have been thinking of killing my stumps with gly and then putting a barrel over each stump to get a concentrated fire to burn them out. Might take along time but it is cheaper that hiring machinery. Then I will have to figure out how to fill the big holes.

 

[Creek]

Thank you for all the really great help. If after looking at this land a couple of more times and should this deal go through then I will be sure to have more questions. It might also be a good time to call BSK. It might be some time as Im going to try and bargain with the price.
Thanks again

 

[BSK]

It might be some time as Im going to try and bargain with the price.

Right now is a good time to bargain on the price of land, the economy being what it is.

 

[Football Hunter]

Yeah,ok ,thought he was talking of clearing all the stumps on the whole place,which would be crazy to me.

Yes it would!

Im gonna add a plot when the loggers get done in one area,there will be 3 BIG stumps in the plot.Im just gonna put a $1 salt brick on em,it will kill em,done it before.Instead of paying a dozer guy to dig em out.

Absolutely will kill them. So will painting the cut stump with concentrated Round-up.

I've left stumps to rot in food plots many a time. It takes a few years, but eventually they pull out of the ground pretty easy. Just don't forget where they are while mowing!!!

yeah,might roll a truck and catch it on fire

 

[timberjack86]

youll never get a cutting of timber back in you lifetime unless you plant back pine then you wouldnt get that much.

 

[Creek]

I have to agree with not getting a harvest in my lifetime. Im trying to think that I have somewhere around 20+ years until retirement and I was thinking that there should be a much more valuable stand of trees by that time for land resale if need be. I copied this from a web site...
The ugliness of a clearcut soon passes--often sooner than expected. In three to four years, natural regeneration has filled in, the area has lost its brown, disturbed appearance, and the hillside is again green in the summer and ablaze with colored leaves in the autumn. In six to ten years, the young trees are free to grow above all the brambles and weed trees. In 10 to 14 years, the young stand of 25- to 35-foot tall trees is once again a pleasant place to walk through. Finally in 35 to 40 years, the growing trees begin to look like a valuable timber crop.

I hope that if we can buy the land for around 1300 per acre that it will be worth it later (15 to 25 years ?)

 

[Bayou Buck]

I have to agree with not getting a harvest in my lifetime. Im trying to think that I have somewhere around 20+ years until retirement and I was thinking that there should be a much more valuable stand of trees by that time for land resale if need be. I copied this from a web site...
The ugliness of a clearcut soon passes--often sooner than expected. In three to four years, natural regeneration has filled in, the area has lost its brown, disturbed appearance, and the hillside is again green in the summer and ablaze with colored leaves in the autumn. In six to ten years, the young trees are free to grow above all the brambles and weed trees. In 10 to 14 years, the young stand of 25- to 35-foot tall trees is once again a pleasant place to walk through. Finally in 35 to 40 years, the growing trees begin to look like a valuable timber crop.

I hope that if we can buy the land for around 1300 per acre that it will be worth it later (15 to 25 years ?)

Depending on where it is at in Hickman county I would bet that you could probably get it for under 1K/ acre. Land like what you described has been going for around 500 to 700 an acre in my area of Perry county.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Bayou Buck I think all that cut over around you sold for $360 per acre last winter. I went and looked at it but it already had grown up a little to much for what I wanted to do with it.

 

[Creek]

Im sorry I didnt mention that there is a pretty new double wide/manufactured home, well water, septic, electric, etc...

 

[BSK]

I have to agree with not getting a harvest in my lifetime. Im trying to think that I have somewhere around 20+ years until retirement and I was thinking that there should be a much more valuable stand of trees by that time for land resale if need be. I copied this from a web site...
The ugliness of a clearcut soon passes--often sooner than expected. In three to four years, natural regeneration has filled in, the area has lost its brown, disturbed appearance, and the hillside is again green in the summer and ablaze with colored leaves in the autumn. In six to ten years, the young trees are free to grow above all the brambles and weed trees. In 10 to 14 years, the young stand of 25- to 35-foot tall trees is once again a pleasant place to walk through. Finally in 35 to 40 years, the growing trees begin to look like a valuable timber crop.

That's a pretty accurate timeline.

For north and northeast facing slopes, I've seen a clear-cut become a true forest (just trees with no undergrowth) in as little as 14 years, depending on the species growing in the area. Poplar stands generally become forest sooner than oaks.

But "no harvest in your life" depends on what you consider your lifetime. I'm seeing poplars of harvestable size that are only 35-40 years old.

 

[BSK]

Other things to think about: Are you buying this land as a long term investment? As recreational land? As both? The trend over the last decade (and probably into the future) is that land value is far more based on recreation (hunting) than timber value.

 

[Bayou Buck]

Bayou Buck I think all that cut over around you sold for $360 per acre last winter. I went and looked at it but it already had grown up a little to much for what I wanted to do with it.

Yup they sold 566 acres for 200K. I paid alittle over 600/acre for mine but I have about 70+ acres of hardwoods on it and 1.5 miles of hard to access public land frontage.

The guys who sold the land for 360/acre had a ballon note that was coming due and practically gave it away. I wish I would have had more money.

 

[timberjack86]

I have to agree with not getting a harvest in my lifetime. Im trying to think that I have somewhere around 20+ years until retirement and I was thinking that there should be a much more valuable stand of trees by that time for land resale if need be. I copied this from a web site...
The ugliness of a clearcut soon passes--often sooner than expected. In three to four years, natural regeneration has filled in, the area has lost its brown, disturbed appearance, and the hillside is again green in the summer and ablaze with colored leaves in the autumn. In six to ten years, the young trees are free to grow above all the brambles and weed trees. In 10 to 14 years, the young stand of 25- to 35-foot tall trees is once again a pleasant place to walk through. Finally in 35 to 40 years, the growing trees begin to look like a valuable timber crop.

That's a pretty accurate timeline.

For north and northeast facing slopes, I've seen a clear-cut become a true forest (just trees with no undergrowth) in as little as 14 years, depending on the species growing in the area. Poplar stands generally become forest sooner than oaks.

But "no harvest in your life" depends on what you consider your lifetime. I'm seeing poplars of harvestable size that are only 35-40 years old.

Only problem with the poplars is that when they reach harvest size thell have catfaces all over em thats a term for spots all over the tree where it sprouted branches during its time in direct sunlight. The mill sure dont like em catfaced. Turns a prime log into a pallet log. I was working a track like that a month ago we had to quit because the earthquake in japan stopped so much production in there factories that they didnt need any more pallets but its picking up again will have to go back into the jungle and get them logs out

 

[Boone 58]