Class 3 101

[BDS05]

Soon, I will be filing for my Class 3. Problem is, I get more and more confused everytime I hear about it and everything involved. Will someone dumb it all down for me in a nutshell? (Trust, trustee, ownership, etc..)
What is the best approach as far as paperwork? I have friends who went in together on a trust with a lawyer handling paperwork. To my understanding , Nashville Armory will do it free long as you buy the item from them. This is obviously the cheaper route but what else can I do if I wanted to file paperwork tomorrow and not buy the suppressor
How much time can I expect waiting?
What route did you go and where did you go? Would you recommend?

IM LOST

 

[TraumaSlave]

I filed my own paper work for my SBR. I bought it with fake suppressor and removed it once the stamp came it. I think you have to purchase a suppressor and the dealer will hold until stamp clears.

 

[TNReb]

The best thing you can do is find a lawyer who is well versed in gun trusts (assuming you want to do a trust). Not just trusts, but GUN trusts. It might cost you a few more bucks but to me it'd be worth the peace of mind to know it's done right. I've been tossing around the idea of it for a while. I think I might do it next spring when money isn't so tight.

 

[BDS05]

What's the difference in lawyer vs someone like Nashville Armory? If you're approved, you're approved, right?

I will be doing this alone and don't plan on having a "group" FYI...

Bear with me here.

 

[TNReb]

Does Nashville Armory set up a trust? Or just help with purchasing the item for individual ownership?

My understanding is that if you purchase the item as an individual, you are the only one that can possess and use that item. Want your kids to own it after you die? Be prepared to jump through a lot of hoops if you are the individual owner.

A Trust can help establish what happens to the item aftert you pass on as well as who can use and possess the item now. I wouldnt trust anyone except an attorney to set up a trust.

If you're the only one going to use the item and you don't plan on having it until you die, then an individual purchase should be fine and I bet the Armory is experienced enough with it to walk you through it without any problems.

 

[Wiley]

I researched for 2 years before I bit the bullet and got into NFA.

As an individual you will have to submit fingerprint cards, passport size photos AND have your local LEO sign the Form 4.

With a Trust there is no need for the 3 steps stated above. The Trust owns the items, you don't. A Trust doesn't have fingerprints, a face nor does it require knowledge of LEO that it exists.

When you set up the Trust you name Trustees, all of whom may posess the NFA item. You also set up beneficiary and successor Trustees. I know of LOTS of Quicken Willmaker Trusts that have been approved by BATFE without a single problem as well as lots of attorney written NFA Trusts. It's your choice as to what you want to spend/how much peace of mind you need in owning NFA items.

Seems like approval times for electronic submissions are running less than 90 days lately.

 

[infoman jr.]

Filing for your class 3...are you trying to become a dealer?

If you're just wanting an SBR or suppressors, a trust is the way to go. It'll be much easier for you to loan them and/or pass them on one day.

 

[BDS05]

I'm not at all interested in becoming a dealer. I assume I'll go the trust route now.

Any recommendations for lawyers? I'm in Lebanon but will drive some for a pleasant experience.

 

[infoman jr.]

I know several people who have used 199trust.com with good results. Sounds corny, I know.

 

[TNReb]

I'm not at all interested in becoming a dealer. I assume I'll go the trust route now.

Any recommendations for lawyers? I'm in Lebanon but will drive some for a pleasant experience.

I'm in Lebanon also. Let me know what you find. :)

 

[El Jagermeister]

I don't know why anyone in TN would want to use a trust. Using a trust became "the cool thing to do" several years ago because people who live in areas where the chief law enforcement officer would not sign their papers, needed another legal route.
In TN, your CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) by law, must sign your forms and return them to you within 10 days. ( the number of days may have changed July 1st).
Iv'e been through the process 4 times since 1999. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just transferring the NFA item to you as an individual on a Form 4.
When you die. And will it to your heir, they pay NO tax and it transfers free, provided that it is in your will that they be the heir.
BATFE has also been examining pressure to change or do away with allowing trusts as entities to allow transfers to. Do you really want to be part of a bunch of possible downhill legal BS later? It's not worth it.
Do it "the way it's been done" by the majority of people since 1968. Just transfer it to you as an individual. Your NFA dealer can walk you through the procedure. If they can't, you seriously do NOT want to do business with them. You will have headaches and longer wait times. -That's my $.02, but it's only worth what you paid for it.

 

[infoman jr.]

I don't know why anyone in TN would want to use a trust. Using a trust became "the cool thing to do" several years ago because people who live in areas where the chief law enforcement officer would not sign their papers, needed another legal route.
In TN, your CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) by law, must sign your forms and return them to you within 10 days. ( the number of days may have changed July 1st).
Iv'e been through the process 4 times since 1999. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just transferring the NFA item to you as an individual on a Form 4.
When you die. And will it to your heir, they pay NO tax and it transfers free, provided that it is in your will that they be the heir.
BATFE has also been examining pressure to change or do away with allowing trusts as entities to allow transfers to. Do you really want to be part of a bunch of possible downhill legal BS later? It's not worth it.
Do it "the way it's been done" by the majority of people since 1968. Just transfer it to you as an individual. Your NFA dealer can walk you through the procedure. If they can't, you seriously do NOT want to do business with them. You will have headaches and longer wait times. -That's my $.02, but it's only worth what you paid for it.

What if a friend or family member wanted to borrow one of your suppressors or short barreled rifles for a weekend?

 

[Deer Assassin]

I don't know why anyone in TN would want to use a trust. Using a trust became "the cool thing to do" several years ago because people who live in areas where the chief law enforcement officer would not sign their papers, needed another legal route.
In TN, your CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) by law, must sign your forms and return them to you within 10 days. ( the number of days may have changed July 1st).
Iv'e been through the process 4 times since 1999. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just transferring the NFA item to you as an individual on a Form 4.
When you die. And will it to your heir, they pay NO tax and it transfers free, provided that it is in your will that they be the heir.
BATFE has also been examining pressure to change or do away with allowing trusts as entities to allow transfers to. Do you really want to be part of a bunch of possible downhill legal BS later? It's not worth it.
Do it "the way it's been done" by the majority of people since 1968. Just transfer it to you as an individual. Your NFA dealer can walk you through the procedure. If they can't, you seriously do NOT want to do business with them. You will have headaches and longer wait times. -That's my $.02, but it's only worth what you paid for it.

What if a friend or family member wanted to borrow one of your suppressors or short barreled rifles for a weekend?

they cant

 

[infoman jr.]

I don't know why anyone in TN would want to use a trust. Using a trust became "the cool thing to do" several years ago because people who live in areas where the chief law enforcement officer would not sign their papers, needed another legal route.
In TN, your CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) by law, must sign your forms and return them to you within 10 days. ( the number of days may have changed July 1st).
Iv'e been through the process 4 times since 1999. There's absolutely nothing wrong with just transferring the NFA item to you as an individual on a Form 4.
When you die. And will it to your heir, they pay NO tax and it transfers free, provided that it is in your will that they be the heir.
BATFE has also been examining pressure to change or do away with allowing trusts as entities to allow transfers to. Do you really want to be part of a bunch of possible downhill legal BS later? It's not worth it.
Do it "the way it's been done" by the majority of people since 1968. Just transfer it to you as an individual. Your NFA dealer can walk you through the procedure. If they can't, you seriously do NOT want to do business with them. You will have headaches and longer wait times. -That's my $.02, but it's only worth what you paid for it.

What if a friend or family member wanted to borrow one of your suppressors or short barreled rifles for a weekend?

they cant

Right. They can't when filing as in individual, however if you file under a trust, any of the trustees can possess the item.

 

[BDS05]

So if I don't plan on lending any of my weapons out? If I did do a trust, it would only be myself and my father or myself and one friend.

Now I'm back in the air as which direction to take.

Any more input from one or the other?
If I just buy from a dealer not creating a trust, I can still sell or do whatever with it? It will technically belong to me, right? May be a dumb question.
Just trying to figure all pros and cons.

 

[BDS05]

If I didn't do trust, would I have to pay $200 ATF fee everytime I purchased something?

Will I have to go through paperwork, signatures and wait periods as well if not through trust after first purchase?

 

[infoman jr.]

So if I don't plan on lending any of my weapons out? If I did do a trust, it would only be myself and my father or myself and one friend.

Now I'm back in the air as which direction to take.

Any more input from one or the other?
If I just buy from a dealer not creating a trust, I can still sell or do whatever with it? It will technically belong to me, right? May be a dumb question.
Just trying to figure all pros and cons.

It will belong to you alone if you do not use a trust (if you use a trust, it belongs to the trust - not to you), but NFA items are basically lifetime purchases. It's difficult to sell one because the buyer would have to pay the $200 transfer fee.

 

[infoman jr.]

If I didn't do trust, would I have to pay $200 ATF fee everytime I purchased something?

Will I have to go through paperwork, signatures and wait periods as well if not through trust after first purchase?

You have to pay the $200 and have a wait period for Form 1 or 4 approval either way for every purchase. Wait times are slightly less for Form 4 as an individual, I believe, because the ATF doesn't like trusts. If you use a trust, you don't have to have to be fingerprinted, obtain any signatures, and multiple people can be named in the trust to possess the NFA item.

 

[El Jagermeister]

Here's my opinion on NFA items (machine guns, supressors, short barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and "any other weapons"):
They MUST be used,stored, and handled to a higher degree of safety and "concern of use" than regular guns. By making an NFA purchase, you have jumped up your responsibility 10x in the "responsible gun owner world"., whether the item is owed by a trust or an individual. You don't trust other people to use it because it is YOURS. Your name is attached to it.
By purchasing under a trust, you increase your chances of that one guy (we all have one in our group or family) screwing things up and doing something dumb. That one guy might : not have the supressors properly affixed and destroy it when firing, leave the suppressor laying around and not locked up, clean the supressor improperly, transport the supressor to another state and not take federal documentation with him, might take it to another state where it is illegal to own and it gets confiscated and himself arrested, he might make a video himself something dumb with the gun/supressor and post it on You-tube, etc. He may even have a dumber friend that talks him into doing something REALLY dumb, or his friend steal it.
I let people shoot my NFA items, only when I am in a position to take direct control of them. Even if it was legal to do so, I would not loan them to a friend or relative to go "play with" for the weekend.
I don't think that it is a "selfish" way to do it. I think that it's the responsible thing to do. I learned that I can't control other people's bad decisions a long time ago.

 

[TRIGGER]

I did not do a trust on any of mine. I have heard the wait time is less with a trust...can anyone validate this? I waited 11 months for one) I'm not going to loan out any of my class III items anyways so the legality of it makes it easy if someone says "can I borrow your ???" No you can't but you can come to my house and shoot them if you want.

 

[paincave_2000]

I did not do a trust on any of mine. I have heard the wait time is less with a trust...can anyone validate this? I waited 11 months for one) I'm not going to loan out any of my class III items anyways so the legality of it makes it easy if someone says "can I borrow your ???" No you can't but you can come to my house and shoot them if you want.

It took 3-4 months for a couple of people I know that have trusts on their last purchases.

 

[infoman jr.]

I just got 2 Form 4s back last week (via trust). They took right at 4 months.

Take a look at this site for current wait times.
http://www.nfatracker.com/TrendGraph.aspx

 

[BDS05]

11 months without a trust?

That's somewhat depressing. I'm getting closer and closer to finally pulling the trigger.

 

[BDS05]

So unless I've completely missed something the only pros to a trust are...
Shorter wait times
Less effort is put into each purchase as far as prints aND signatures
And the ability to swap items around inside of the trust

What else? I will be going to a dealer this week for a 1on1 lesson. I GREATLY appreciate all your info thus far.

 

[rhyned]

I bought my first can as an individual. After that, I got a trust and bought a second one. If I had it to do over, I would have gotten a trust in the first place. I put my wife and brother on the trust. Your family has enough to deal with when you die besides having to do paperwork for an NFA item. Also, I did a Form 3 for an SBR a while back. All I had to do was get on the website and submit everything since I had a trust. I never had to see a dealer for any of it. A trust is a one-time purchase and I feel it gives you a lot more flexibility. There's really no down side to it.

 

[TRIGGER]

11 months without a trust?

That's somewhat depressing. I'm getting closer and closer to finally pulling the trigger.

That is longer than normal as I understand. When I turned the paper work in they estimated 7 months. I think I got in at a bad time is all.

 

[Wiley]

All of my NFA is on a Trust. My first purchase was 3 items all at once. Approval time was 13 months. That was about 8 years ago. There are more examiners now and the efile option so approval times have decreased a lot. I believe my last one was about 4 months.

 

[BDS05]

Thanks for all your help. I believe by the end of next week, I will have established a trust.

Once it is all said and done, I will give a fair review the route I took and lawyer I used...

Now to start supressor shopping and saving the pennies I thought I had going into this.

 

[TRIGGER]

Thanks for all your help. I believe by the end of next week, I will have established a trust.

Once it is all said and done, I will give a fair review the route I took and lawyer I used...

Now to start supressor shopping and saving the pennies I thought I had going into this.

What caliber are you looking to get?

 

[BDS05]

It'll be going on a 308 bolt.