Check your rings

[Hammer]

Make sure your rings are torqued down

Carry on..... :bash:

 

[MUP]

A little scope slippage I presume?

 

[DaveB]

Got to say if you have never failed to tighten your rings completely, you eventually will.

It helps to have a inch-pounds torque wrench, Midsouth Shooters Supply has a nice one under 50 bucks I think.

Using inserts, for me, seems to resolve the problem.

rings for our new 6.8 SPC nowhere near up to holding the Vortex scope in place.

I was out of inserts. Had to order them again.

You would not think the vortex was heavy enough to slip. Oh well, I know better....just ran out of inserts.

 

[nock]

I learned not to trust Academy to mount a scope. I decided to have a Vortex Diamond back put on my Henry 30-30 since my eye sight is not good enough for open sights anymore. They mounted the scope since I purchased the scope and rings from them. A few weeks later I had to return my Henry for some service work so I had to remove the scope. When I took it off I realized the scope ring screws were loose. One or two of the screws were about to fall out.

 

[DaveB]

Blue 242 from Loctite. Just like Brylcreem-a Little drop will do ya.
My eyes are bad but I still mount all my own scopes. There are no secrets to this process:

Invest in the proper tools-an inch-pound torque wrench, Torx screw sets and matching driver heads, bottle of 242, and a double order of scope ring inserts.

Install bases. Install bottom rings. place scope in cradles and check for objective bell clearance, can you work the bolt, eye relief, etc. Once you have determine the bases are in the correct location, re-torque. apply drop of 242 to all 4 screws. Come back next day and check if 242 is unbroken and then proceed to install bottom insert, scope, top insert (yes kind of tricky), top ring, torx screws, torque wrench.

The 242 can crack because of metal expansion/contraction, which may be a reason why so many bases come loose. You using aluminum bases?

 

[infoman jr.]

Blue 242 from Loctite. Just like Brylcreem-a Little drop will do ya.
My eyes are bad but I still mount all my own scopes. There are no secrets to this process:

Invest in the proper tools-an inch-pound torque wrench, Torx screw sets and matching driver heads, bottle of 242, and a double order of scope ring inserts.

Install bases. Install bottom rings. place scope in cradles and check for objective bell clearance, can you work the bolt, eye relief, etc. Once you have determine the bases are in the correct location, re-torque. apply drop of 242 to all 4 screws. Come back next day and check if 242 is unbroken and then proceed to install bottom insert, scope, top insert (yes kind of tricky), top ring, torx screws, torque wrench.

The 242 can crack because of metal expansion/contraction, which may be a reason why so many bases come loose. You using aluminum bases?

Are you implying that you should let the loctite dry on the screws before installing them?

 

[TN Song Dog]

Dave,
Please describe or post a link to the ring inserts you use? I'm unfamiliar with these

 

[DaveB]

Nope, you torque the screws down and then apply the 242 so that it flows over the head to the surrounding metal. Do not place any 242 on threads.

Here is the link. I find these inserts to be highly effective even if you lap the rings---which is a preferred solution but easy to screw up and over-do so have someone professional do the lap work. I always use the inserts...

https://www.highpoweroptics.com/ringtru ... 24944.html

 

[FTG-05]

Blue 242 from Loctite. Just like Brylcreem-a Little drop will do ya.
My eyes are bad but I still mount all my own scopes. There are no secrets to this process:

Invest in the proper tools-an inch-pound torque wrench, Torx screw sets and matching driver heads, bottle of 242, and a double order of scope ring inserts.

Install bases. Install bottom rings. place scope in cradles and check for objective bell clearance, can you work the bolt, eye relief, etc. Once you have determine the bases are in the correct location, re-torque. apply drop of 242 to all 4 screws. Come back next day and check if 242 is unbroken and then proceed to install bottom insert, scope, top insert (yes kind of tricky), top ring, torx screws, torque wrench.

The 242 can crack because of metal expansion/contraction, which may be a reason why so many bases come loose. You using aluminum bases?

Why is Loctite "Blue" 242 in a red bottle? :bash:

And the pic on the bottle lower left clearly shows adding the blue Loctite to the threads prior to tightening.

 

[DaveB]

Blue loctite 242 is used to keep a screw from unloosening. If you put it on threads and then torque the screw you may/will get bad values and negate the objective of the torque step.

It is nothing more than a telltale when used strictly on the screw head and just enough to flow to the surrounding metal. If you look at the blue and it is no longer one piece of dried 242, that screw has turned.

It is used on many things to secure a screw. Manufacturers use something like 242 as a seal and when they encounter a broken seal the warranty is invalidated.

 

[TN Song Dog]

Lol, the Blue is sold in a Red bottle. :idea:

Thanks on the ring inserts material. Makes a lot of sense, and surprised I've never heard of it before. Thanks again.

 

[infoman jr.]

Nope, you torque the screws down and then apply the 242 so that it flows over the head to the surrounding metal. Do not place any 242 on threads.

Here is the link. I find these inserts to be highly effective even if you lap the rings---which is a preferred solution but easy to screw up and over-do so have someone professional do the lap work. I always use the inserts...

https://www.highpoweroptics.com/ringtru ... 24944.html

:bash: That's not how the product works. It's a THREAD locker. Both threads should be cleaned with acetone, and loctite should be applied to the fastener threads and the fastener tightened to the proper torque. Loctite cures in the absence of oxygen. The packaging even shows where it goes.

 

[infoman jr.]

Blue loctite 242 is used to keep a screw from unloosening. If you put it on threads and then torque the screw you may/will get bad values and negate the objective of the torque step.

It is nothing more than a telltale when used strictly on the screw head and just enough to flow to the surrounding metal. If you look at the blue and it is no longer one piece of dried 242, that screw has turned.

It is used on many things to secure a screw. Manufacturers use something like 242 as a seal and when they encounter a broken seal the warranty is invalidated.

There is indeed a difference between wet and dry torque, but a wet torque is more consistent. You really should read into the product. It's not what you see on the heads of tamper-resistant fasteners.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/directions/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm

 

[DaveB]

Have always used 242 as a telltale on bases/rings. I am sure there are other products that would do the same thing, like the tamper-resistant products you mentioned.

 

[infoman jr.]

It should not be used as an indicator of failure. It should be used to prevent it.

 

[FTG-05]

In addition to using the Blue Loctite, one thing I always do when installing a scope is lap the rings. I've never seen one that didn't need and/or improve via lapping. The only exception was one rifle with those (Bushnell?) scope rings that had the polymer inserts. I use a 1" SS bar I got from Mike's Surplus in Guntersville, probably well over 25 years ago.

I do 100% on the bottom rings and at least 80% on the top rings to ensure excellent contact between the scope and rings and to ensure the rings are perfectly aligned at the base.

I wish I had some pics of the last one I did. :bash:

 

[Deer Assassin]

never found the need for loctite

even with a 300 rum

 

[Hunter 257W]

I always use the Blue Loctite. I've found that even the Red version can be removed without heat as they suggest so sometimes use it. The only scope I've ever had slip was on my 460 Weatherby. It pulled the rear ring right past the 2 windage screws on a Redfield style base. It actually cut the metal of the screws and I took it to the meca of guns at that time - Judges Gun Shop - and they had some screws with heavier heads. It's never slipped again.

I agree that Loctite is to be used on threads. What you are suggesting Dave is to use it more like a torque stripe as some aviation applications do. While that will tell you that the screw has loosened, you are losing the main benefit of the product in preventing the screw from backing out. Also torqueing with a wet fastener gives a much more consistent(and greater) clamping force compared to dry.

I never owned a inch-lb torque screwdriver for guns until last Fall myself. I always just used the little allen or torx wrenches that came with the ring/base sets and soured down on them until the wrench flexed a lot and called it a day. Well, I did one for a friend last Fall using one of the Leupold brand Weaver style mounts and broke the ring clamp flat in two pieces across the center of the two screw holes. I got online with Brownells and fixed that by buying a Wheeler Engineering torque set. So far I love it. Much better than twisting until the little pieces go "Pop"!

 

[tndave59]

Pretty much always use loctite and wheeler torque driver when mounting rings, bases and scope. Bought a set of Warne rings for a ruger and instruction said to not use loctite. Thoughts?

 

[LanceS4803]

A Wheeler torque wrench is cheap insurance. Plus, it can be used to set the torque on your action bolt.
I can't even tell you how many times I have used mine.

 

[user 14220]

Never found the need for Loctite or ring lapping and my go to rifles in Alaska were mostly lightweight 375's or similar hard kickers. I read a few articles in the past that mentioned lapping may make rings more prone to scope slippage.

I do clean off the oil and grease from the ring screws as well as the mount screws. This also includes cleaning out the threads inside the rings and rifle action.

 

[infoman jr.]

Pretty much always use loctite and wheeler torque driver when mounting rings, bases and scope. Bought a set of Warne rings for a ruger and instruction said to not use loctite. Thoughts?

I would still use blue loctite.

 

[GOODWIN]

I've always used loctite (on the threads) on the base only. Torqued base and rings down to spec and carry on. Never had one slip. Oh I I also lap the rings.

 

[fairchaser]

My son is a machinist and he says machinists don't use torque wrenches, as they can feel the torque. In some applications where there are many screws that should be tightened in sequence and must be all exactly the same, then use a torque wrench. Scope rings do have a sequence and a spec but it seems that the recommended pressure is inadequate without locktite. I use locktite on bases but not rings. It requires heat to loosen. I've never tried it on the heads only. I tightened screws until the wrench bows slightly about a 1/4 inch. I've only had one scope slip and it was cheap rings with only one screw per side. Buy good rings with two or three screws per side. I've never used inserts as that's one more thing to slip. Lapping would be helpful but I've never done it. I'd never trust someone else to mount my scope unless it's my son the machinist. The risk of failure is too important on a hunting rifle.

 

[MUP]

I'm a machinist of 30+ years experience, and I will use a torque wrench on scope bases and rings. Yes I can feel the differences in torque quite well, but I want to be exact with each bolt and achieve the same tension on each one. Tightening by feel leaves room for some discrepancy. It's kinda like this, I can measure tight dimensions with dial calipers, but I can be a little more accurate with micrometers.

 

[infoman jr.]

My son is a machinist and he says machinists don't use torque wrenches, as they can feel the torque.

Oh brother...

I use locktite on bases but not rings. It requires heat to loosen.

The Loctite we're talking about (blue, 242 or 243) doesn't require heat for removal.

 

[fairchaser]

My son is a machinist and he says machinists don't use torque wrenches, as they can feel the torque.

Oh brother...

I use locktite on bases but not rings. It requires heat to loosen.

The Loctite we're talking about (blue, 242 or 243) doesn't require heat for removal.

Probably so. My stuff is older and is blue but can't tell you what exactly it is. All I know is I tried to remove a base once and it wasn't budging without heat.