Button buck question?

swd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
478
My question is how old is your son? We talking talking about a twelve year old or a forty year old?
 

Boone25/06

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
310
Location
Marshall
In order to reduce a deer population, considering that most mature does have twins, you would have to kill about 50% of the does in a single year. So killing a few does isn't going to hurt anything for you. I would not shoot the buttons but if one is accidentally mistaken for a doe, I wouldn't fret over it.

Also, while 240 acres may seem large to you, it isn't nearly enough land to manage a deer herd. You need thousands of acres to do that.
Agreed that thousands of acres are needed to manage a herd. That's is why I was even considering the button buck. I'm not too worried about someone five miles away having one less buck if he does range shift the average distance. That's why I was looking at the 2 options and deciding the one with the best direct effect on my land. I own only the 240 but have exclusive hunting rights on the neighboring 475acres. I don't habitat manage it due to cattle but same deer run it all. They travel on and off properties sometimes daily but I try to offer what other neighbors don't. Small drop in bucket and no one can explain the satisfaction of managing your own land to the best it could be unless they have experienced it too.
 

Boone25/06

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
310
Location
Marshall
Totally agree that 240 acres isn't enough to totally manage or control a deer herd....but at the same time the choices we make can have an influence on the local herd...... positive or negative.
Agreed. Although sometimes my efforts seem to influence my neighbors success more than mine. Lol
If everyone took the idea nothing they could do would positively effect the bigger picture then what's the point. I just enjoy what I do on the land. I grew up on a farm knowing if you don't plant it it doesn't grow and you don't harvest it. If you don't feed it , it doesn't grow fat for slaughter. Wildlife is just that wild but some of the same ideas benefit it.
 

Boone25/06

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
310
Location
Marshall
I was just pondering the same thing. Look up the Holzenbein study. I have button bucks out the wazoo now. I need jerky and thought." If they're leaving, why not take them?" That being said, November(rut) is my most hunted month. My preference is lots of doe's. Below is a screenshot of what I just read yesterday morning. If nothing else it's interesting. Not saying it's absolutely perfect but it is a scientific study.
I heard that before too. I tried it on one, it was a easily distinguishable button buck but he still disappeared early summer anyways. Won't ever know for sure why and one example isn't enough to form an opinion on but sure wished he would have stuck around. He was piebald.
 

DoubleRidge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
9,621
Location
Middle Tennessee
Agreed. Although sometimes my efforts seem to influence my neighbors success more than mine. Lol
If everyone took the idea nothing they could do would positively effect the bigger picture then what's the point. I just enjoy what I do on the land. I grew up on a farm knowing if you don't plant it it doesn't grow and you don't harvest it. If you don't feed it , it doesn't grow fat for slaughter. Wildlife is just that wild but some of the same ideas benefit it.

Agree.... working on the land making habitat improvements and seeing wildlife benefit is very rewarding....nice return for the time invested.... killing deer is a bonus......also agree that what we do and the choices we make can and does make a difference....this can be true even on the smallest of acreage.....our place is similar in size to yours and no doubt deer are going to travel.....but if we give them food, cover and keep pressure to a minimum....then our management choices will have more of an influence on the local herd.....or in other words, the more we can keep deer around the areas we manage...the more influence we can have.
 

Joe2Kool

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2002
Messages
825
Location
Knoxville, TN USA
Sounds like you have plenty of deer. And shooting one more, either button buck or doe, probably won't make a big dent in the herd. I think 8Pt said it, but you are way overthinking it.
However, since your son has already killed two bucks, use this as a teaching moment to become a steward of the resource. Involve him in the decision. Don't overcomplicate it (like your did for us! :) ), but give him a couple of options and let him decide - shoot doe and buck stays for next year but she doesn't repopulate, or shoot buck and he's not there next year but doe repopulates. Keep it simple, don't get into the buck to doe ratio, and fawn mortality. But, whatever he decides, support it as a good decision!

Just MHO.
 

Boone25/06

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
310
Location
Marshall
Sounds like you have plenty of deer. And shooting one more, either button buck or doe, probably won't make a big dent in the herd. I think 8Pt said it, but you are way overthinking it.
However, since your son has already killed two bucks, use this as a teaching moment to become a steward of the resource. Involve him in the decision. Don't overcomplicate it (like your did for us! :) ), but give him a couple of options and let him decide - shoot doe and buck stays for next year but she doesn't repopulate, or shoot buck and he's not there next year but doe repopulates. Keep it simple, don't get into the buck to doe ratio, and fawn mortality. But, whatever he decides, support it as a good decision!

Just MHO.
Very true either way makes very little overall difference. The original post wasn't meant to get so complicated as there were only 2 options asked shoot button or not, but I will have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed every ones post and opinions. I thank everyone for spending time to read and offer there opinions. Overthinking things pertaining to a passion for land and management is definitely a problem I have but often pays off in the long run. I will take your advise and let him make his own decision. Thanks and sorry for the complicated question but I have enjoyed it.
 

double browtine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
7,768
Location
Cheatham/Montgomery County
Late season, when the bucks group back up, and doe groups hang together, button bucks will usually hang together too. Button buck groups usually 2 or to 3 together, will usually be the first ones to hit the food plot. Late season, I always try to shoot big does or yearling that are following a doe. Most likely the yearlings following closely behind a mature doe are doe offspring. We have always shot at least 2 does for every buck harvested during the season in unit L. Seems to keep the heard looking healthy.
 

DoubleRidge

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
9,621
Location
Middle Tennessee
Very true either way makes very little overall difference. The original post wasn't meant to get so complicated as there were only 2 options asked shoot button or not, but I will have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed every ones post and opinions. I thank everyone for spending time to read and offer there opinions. Overthinking things pertaining to a passion for land and management is definitely a problem I have but often pays off in the long run. I will take your advise and let him make his own decision. Thanks and sorry for the complicated question but I have enjoyed it.

No appology needed...great conversation....I think studying on land and herd management is a good thing.
 

'borohunter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
1,261
Location
Murfreesboro
I agree - the idea is to enjoy the outdoors and connection with the animal/land/family. Let him shoot whatever and adjust as you go. I know most people "evolve" their hunting style... Just my 2 cents...
 

redblood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
26,097
Location
Lewisburg
I dont believe in giving kids a free pass to shoot anything they wont. Our farm lies in marshall county and we see lots deer every day. My son will see deer and ask if he can shoot it and explain to him the concepts if managing a deer herd. Does are fine of they are mature as long as we have a need. We dont shoot deer for the sake of just shooting. Its a serious decision to end a life. He understands they young bucks need time to grow. I feel the sooner these lessons are taught, the better.
 

Andy S.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 1999
Messages
23,617
Location
Atoka, TN
I dont believe in giving kids a free pass to shoot anything they wont. Our farm lies in marshall county and we see lots deer every day.
Your second sentence is likely the single most factor that drives your viewpoint in the first sentence. In other words, I think your viewpoint is heavily influenced by all of the deer you have around you and see continuously with little effort. Many of us have picked up on that fact with the good "named" bucks bedding in your yard/fields that you photograph. For that, you are very fortunate. Very very fortunate. Hunt in an area with far less deer density, and I think you would reconsider letting kids shoot any deer they see with the limited amount of time most have to hunt these days. I have strict rules for myself, almost to the point that it can take the fun out of it at times, but I will gladly let a young kid (5-12) shoot any deer they want, as long as it is legal. I want to see their smile and make that memory while they have the opportunity. Food for thought.
 

redblood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
26,097
Location
Lewisburg
Your second sentence is likely the single most factor that drives your viewpoint in the first sentence. In other words, I think your viewpoint is heavily influenced by all of the deer you have around you and see continuously with little effort. Many of us have picked up on that fact with the good "named" bucks bedding in your yard/fields that you photograph. For that, you are very fortunate. Very very fortunate. Hunt in an area with far less deer density, and I think you would reconsider letting kids shoot any deer they see with the limited amount of time most have to hunt these days. I have strict rules for myself, almost to the point that it can take the fun out of it at times, but I will gladly let a young kid (5-12) shoot any deer they want, as long as it is legal. I want to see their smile and make that memory while they have the opportunity. Food for thought.
I totally understand what you are saying, but isnt that compounding the problem. I always look at where a person is from when they post deer pics, mainly to get a picture of the deer being killed in their area. One thing i notice is it seems people who are in the lower deer density areas kill larger number of deer, especially their children. No doubt i am in rare place. Having said that i have killed one does the entire year, a mid october deer with a bow.i guess what i am saying that teaching deer management, sustainability, patience and restraint are parts of the mentoring process
 

Boone25/06

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
310
Location
Marshall
Like redblood I'm blessed to have farms in Marshall and have plenty of opportunities. My son isn't a normal 7 year old, who hunts a couple times a year. He lives the outdoors hunts every time I go. He has shot more than most any at his age with some being nice mature bucks. He rides tractor planting corn and beans, digs holes for trees, and has his own set of trail cams he places where he wants. He's hooked along time ago and already grow so much. I gave him the choice to shoot another and he decided he would rather run beagles and kick brush for rabbits. I know it takes a lot to get kids involved in outdoors now but that's not a problem here. He doesn't have to shoot everytime he goes to keep him going. He took his friend right before Xmas and let her shoot her second deer ever that just happened to be bigger than his this year and he was just as excited as she was. I have been blessed with a son who loves it as much as I do. Thank everyone for reading topic and posting I have enjoyed everyone's views.
 

Andy S.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 1999
Messages
23,617
Location
Atoka, TN
And for the record i am not talking about the kids very 1st deer. But i dont believe extending a shoot whatever policy 5 or 6 deer in is a good idea if it goods against sound management strategies for the particular tract of land.
Agree 100%. But for most 5-12 year old kids who do not take much resource from the wild, I will let them shoot the first legal deer/turkey/etc they see each season. If they start getting good at the game and mowing them down, and the immediate area cannot sustain that, for sure, start introducing deer management, sustainability, patience and restraint as you mentioned.
 

Latest posts

Top