Bowhunter Irony?

[TheLBLman]

When we decide our deer management goals, it's often regarding how many female deer we NEED to harvest, and how many bucks we CAN harvest. Sometimes we disallow bucks with smaller antlers, sometimes younger bucks. At least in the club I'm in, we don't have any separate harvest criteria for bow hunters vs. gun hunters, as we are all just deer hunters. A club member is welcome to bowhunt, but he isn't allowed any more bucks or any lesser bucks just because he carries a bow instead of a gun. However, having many more days to hunt, those who choose to carry a bow are given many additional opportunities to kill the deer of their choosing.

Our friend "Radar" chooses to hunt 100% with a bow. His choice, and I totally respect it. And he's quite an accomplished bowhunter. As far as I know, what he determines to be a "shooter" buck has nothing to do with the weapon he has in hand. But that said, I've yet to see a good bowhunter, even "Radar", who wasn't in fact a more effective deer hunter should he choose to carry a firearm instead. Usually just a personal choice. Some are more into deer hunting than into archery; others are more into archery than into deer hunting. Just personal choices, preferences, and not things that should be dividing us as hunters.

But would it be a hypocrisy for a bowhunter to consider himself a better hunter on one hand, while on the other hand stating that standards for considering a buck a "trophy" should be lower for bowhunters? And should we elite bowhunters be given additional buck tags since we are such special hunters?

Maybe even more ironic, it's sometimes easier for a novice bowhunter to take a large antlered buck on certain hunting lands (particularly those never, seldom, or less gun hunted), than a more accomplished gun hunter on many "private" hunting lands. But IMO, it's really nothing more than a matter of personal choices. Like if you CHOOSE to hunt President's Island WMA, it will have to be with a bow since firearms aren't allowed. Ditto for much of the public-land hunting in Kentucky and Illinois due to their relatively short gun seasons, i.e. often easier to kill a "trophy" buck there with a bow than with a gun in TN. And I say "great" to those who sometimes choose to go there to hunt, myself included.

Yet, more and more I'm seeing the wisdom in no "special" weapons seasons, as these special seasons may be doing more harm than good to the future of hunting. Why? Because they are dividing us deer hunters into "bow" hunters and "gun" hunters. When one group gets special privileges, never mind any of us could "choose" to participate, the divisional damage is done.

Maybe we would be better to simply have a single annual "deer" season, each hunter using whatever weapon he so chooses, each hunter being allowed "x" number of deer? That said, I do hope TWRA continues special archery-only days. Maybe that's just a little selfishness on my behalf because I'm a deer hunter who appreciates and chooses to participate in archery hunting for deer.

But at the end of the day, we are all deer hunters, first and foremost.
And we're going to need all of us to preserve our hunting heritage.

 

[CopperHead77]

Good post Wes,I wouldn't like an "annual deer season" as you stated though,as a bowhunter I like the "quiet time" that bow only offers and the additional challenge it provides. All the different weapons/seasons also helps to stimulate the economy which is a good thing.

 

[102]

Wes said:
But would it be a hypocrisy for a bowhunter to consider himself a better hunter on one hand, while on the other hand stating that standards for considering a buck a "trophy" should be lower for bowhunters? And should we elite bowhunters be given additional buck tags since we are such special hunters?

I completely disagree with this statement Wes. ALL record books recognize TWO distinct different standards for bow vs. gun.

Bowhunters use SELF IMPOSED limitations to hunt. SELF IMPOSED! It is a CHOICE. IMO, a TRUE bowhunter will MOST OFTEN hunt with a bow when given the choice. Myself and almost ALL of my hunting companions choose to hunt the entire deer season with a bow. Even when we could easily carry a gun legally. It is a CHOICE. Like you said. I do it because I GREATLY enjoy the satisfaction it gives ME when I am successful. And even when I am not and could have taken a shot with a gun. I own guns. I've killed several deer with guns. A few big, mature deer/bucks. But it just was not as rewarding for ME. I am glad that others feel different and will ALWAYS welcome a gunnie into my deer camp.

Do I think it is HARDER to regularly kill MATURE deer with a bow, thereby realizing that "trophy" probably equates to "rare" successful opportunity...You BET your BSK I do.

Does this mean to me that a regularly successful public land bowhunter is probably a better hunter than the same gun hunter?

Well, ask yourself these questions, "does a regularly successful (mature deer) rifle hunter sit on the edge of a clearcut and hunt an area, possibly several hundred yards in diameter"? EVEN when he may have NEVER spent much time there?
Can a regularly successful Bowhunter do the same thing? Or does he need to actually pick a specific tree based on scouting forays and study and scouting.

In other words, drop me off in unknown woods with a rifle, and I'll find me an AREA pretty quick in which I'll have good confidence. At least 50% of my time hunting, 50% scouting. In fact, I'll hunt while I scout.

With a bow, 80% scouting, 20% hunting. I will spend ALL day scouting and WILL NOT get in a tree until I am confident.

Wes said,
Like if you CHOOSE to hunt President's Island WMA, it will have to be with a bow since firearms aren't allowed. Ditto for much of the public-land hunting in Kentucky and Illinois due to their relatively short gun seasons, i.e. often easier to kill a "trophy" buck there with a bow than with a gun in TN. And I say "great" to those who sometimes choose to go there to hunt, myself included.

It is NEVER "easy" for anyone to kill a "trophy" buck. But for me, I DISAGREE STRONGLY with the above statement.(again, I am just speaking for ME...a died in the wool BOWHUNTER...YEAR ROUND), I realize you said "easier", but there is simply NO COMPARISON between bowhunters and gun hunters. And there should NEVER be. WHy would we want to do that? It is NOT a competetion.
Should bowhunters or gun hunters get special priveledges? NO...ABSOLUTELY NOT! And I do NOT think that they do now.

A gun hunter can buy a cross bow (25 yard "gun"), and hunt the early bow season. A bowhunter can buy a gun, or use his bow, and hunt the gun season. The seasons are designed so that doe harvests can be up where needed during both gun and bow season.

102

 

[102]

Now THIS...IS VERY TRUE, THIS is what BONDS us Wes!


But at the end of the day, we are all deer hunters, first and foremost.
And we're going to need all of us to preserve our hunting heritage.[/quote]

102

 

[Boone 58]

When we decide our deer management goals, it's often regarding how many female deer we NEED to harvest, and how many bucks we CAN harvest. Sometimes we disallow bucks with smaller antlers, sometimes younger bucks. At least in the club I'm in, we don't have any separate harvest criteria for bow hunters vs. gun hunters, as we are all just deer hunters. A club member is welcome to bowhunt, but he isn't allowed any more bucks or any lesser bucks just because he carries a bow instead of a gun. However, having many more days to hunt, those who choose to carry a bow are given many additional opportunities to kill the deer of their choosing.

Our friend "Radar" chooses to hunt 100% with a bow. His choice, and I totally respect it. And he's quite an accomplished bowhunter. As far as I know, what he determines to be a "shooter" buck has nothing to do with the weapon he has in hand. But that said, I've yet to see a good bowhunter, even "Radar", who wasn't in fact a more effective deer hunter should he choose to carry a firearm instead. Usually just a personal choice. Some are more into deer hunting than into archery; others are more into archery than into deer hunting. Just personal choices, preferences, and not things that should be dividing us as hunters.

But would it be a hypocrisy for a bowhunter to consider himself a better hunter on one hand, while on the other hand stating that standards for considering a buck a "trophy" should be lower for bowhunters? And should we elite bowhunters be given additional buck tags since we are such special hunters?

Maybe even more ironic, it's sometimes easier for a novice bowhunter to take a large antlered buck on certain hunting lands (particularly those never, seldom, or less gun hunted), than a more accomplished gun hunter on many "private" hunting lands. But IMO, it's really nothing more than a matter of personal choices. Like if you CHOOSE to hunt President's Island WMA, it will have to be with a bow since firearms aren't allowed. Ditto for much of the public-land hunting in Kentucky and Illinois due to their relatively short gun seasons, i.e. often easier to kill a "trophy" buck there with a bow than with a gun in TN. And I say "great" to those who sometimes choose to go there to hunt, myself included.

Yet, more and more I'm seeing the wisdom in no "special" weapons seasons, as these special seasons may be doing more harm than good to the future of hunting. Why? Because they are dividing us deer hunters into "bow" hunters and "gun" hunters. When one group gets special privileges, never mind any of us could "choose" to participate, the divisional damage is done.

Maybe we would be better to simply have a single annual "deer" season, each hunter using whatever weapon he so chooses, each hunter being allowed "x" number of deer? That said, I do hope TWRA continues special archery-only days. Maybe that's just a little selfishness on my behalf because I'm a deer hunter who appreciates and chooses to participate in archery hunting for deer.

But at the end of the day, we are all deer hunters, first and foremost.
And we're going to need all of us to preserve our hunting heritage.

Too complicated for me Wes! I thought the reason the special seasons were implemented was to increase the use of special weapons sales and fun and opportunity to get in the woods more. Whether we kill any more with a bow or gun or MZ ......cars, trucks etc will continue to kill them at the rate they are now.....DAILY!
Why complicate it more. I feel discriminated against cause i dont have a deer guard on the front of my truck and car and those who do can kill more than me ...daily......Darn that isnt fair!....wink wink wink......well you get the pic?...dont you?

 

[buckdead]

the fact that someone hunts exclusivly with a bow doesnt make them a better or more skilled hunter. i would say he is a more dedicated hunter.
i dont see the hunting community being divided by the weapons they choose to hunt with thats ludacris.
i dont feel like someone that chooses to hunt with a bow is getting special privileges.
i think the special seasons do alot of good for the future of hunting. it offers people more oppurtunities and caters to a more diverse crowd.
i enjoy hunting with a bow, muzzleloader, and gun. and i respect the fact that some people choose to hunt exclusivly with a bow even though i dont.

 

[BSK]

Yet, more and more I'm seeing the wisdom in no "special" weapons seasons, as these special seasons may be doing more harm than good to the future of hunting. Why? Because they are dividing us deer hunters into "bow" hunters and "gun" hunters. When one group gets special privileges, never mind any of us could "choose" to participate, the divisional damage is done.

Maybe we would be better to simply have a single annual "deer" season, each hunter using whatever weapon he so chooses, each hunter being allowed "x" number of deer?

Now you're starting to get it Wes.

I always propose just a "deer season" with tongue planted firmly in cheek. I honestly have no problem with bow hunters getting first crack at the deer. But I do see the "elitism" of some bow-hunters becoming more and more of a problem. Ever notice how some bow-hunters always want to limit the hunting time and potential kills of other hunters to increase their personal odds of killing bigger bucks?

 

[richmanbarbeque]

But I do see the "elitism" of some bow-hunters becoming more and more of a problem. Ever notice how some bow-hunters always want to limit the hunting time and potential kills of other hunters to increase their personal odds of killing bigger bucks?

Can't we say that equally with all segments of hunting. I here all the time "if we limit bowhunting our odds of killing bucks during gun season would be better". I personally could care less. I enjoy hunting and what ever obstacle is in front of me I try to over come it.

 

[BSK]

the fact that someone hunts exclusivly with a bow doesnt make them a better or more skilled hunter. i would say he is a more dedicated hunter.

I would agree with that. In addition, I believe the dedicated bow hunter is someone who thoroughly enjoys the challenge of deer hunting instead of being solely focused on the success side of deer hunting. I truly admire dedicated bow hunters because I share their love of the challenge.

i dont see the hunting community being divided by the weapons they choose to hunt with thats ludacris.

On that one I have to disagree. Just go over to the Serious Deer Hunting Forum and look at the raging debates of those bow-hunters that want to shorten gun seasons and lower the buck limit for gun-hunters so that they will have more older bucks to hunt. This battle between bow-hunters and gun-hunters gets worse every year, and is doing considerable harm to deer hunting. It is one of the most device issues of our time.

 

[BSK]

But I do see the "elitism" of some bow-hunters becoming more and more of a problem. Ever notice how some bow-hunters always want to limit the hunting time and potential kills of other hunters to increase their personal odds of killing bigger bucks?

Can't we say that equally with all segments of hunting.

Certainly. This is the same attitude fueling the buck limit debates. It is the "limit others so I can have more big bucks" viewpoint, and I believe this growing problem will have tragic consequences in the long run.

 

[BSK]

I thought the reason the special seasons were implemented was to increase the use of special weapons sales and fun and opportunity to get in the woods more.

Special weapons seasons were origianlly designed to provide more hunting opportunities that would produce minimal impact on total harvests. Participants were few and harvests were low. But we're far beyond that stage now.

 

[Radar]

Limiting myself to a bow has made hunting more fun and challenging for me and has helped me become a better hunter . The weapon someone else chooses to use makes no difference to me , however I do enjoy the solitude of early bowseason .
If firearms seasons were opened in early October , the bucks would be nocturnal by the rut. I feel the increase in hunter participation has a significant impact on hunting pressure and harvest rates prior to the rut.

 

[102]

Again, I DO NOT CARE what TWRA does with seasons, limits, or weapons. I WILL get my hunting done. I just want as MANY hunters to participate as possible. Happily, supportingly, HUNTING!

I doubt that EVERYONE will agree on all aspects of hunting seasons, limits, etc. But HOPEFULLY, calmer heads will prevail and our "hunting heritage" will endure.

Back to this bowhunter vs gun hunter debate.

Is one hunter "better" than the other?

Who cares?

Just hunt and enjoy!

102

 

[buckdead]

i dont see the hunting community being divided by the weapons they choose to hunt with thats ludacris.

On that one I have to disagree. Just go over to the Serious Deer Hunting Forum and look at the raging debates of those bow-hunters that want to shorten gun seasons and lower the buck limit for gun-hunters so that they will have more older bucks to hunt. This battle between bow-hunters and gun-hunters gets worse every year, and is doing considerable harm to deer hunting. It is one of the most device issues of our time.

[/quote]


i guess your right about that. But if a annual deer season bring what you want was put in place i think there would be more complaining by the people that hunt exclusively with a bow. i would imagine people trying to bow and gun at the same time would result in alot more bad blood. jmo.

 

[deerchaser007]

Again, I DO NOT CARE what TWRA does with seasons, limits, or weapons. I WILL get my hunting done. I just want as MANY hunters to participate as possible. Happily, supportingly, HUNTING!

I doubt that EVERYONE will agree on all aspects of hunting seasons, limits, etc. But HOPEFULLY, calmer heads will prevail and our "hunting heritage" will endure.

Back to this bowhunter vs gun hunter debate.

Is one hunter "better" than the other?

Who cares?

Just hunt and enjoy!

102

I agree!!
Same as the crossbow and bow debate. I used to bow hunt but my rotary cup started giving me trouble and i stopped. Crossbow allowed me to get back out there and enjoy my favorite time to hunt. I enjoy the time during bow season because the habitat is going thru change. I like being there as the leaves change and start falling ,.. cool mornings with a slight south breeze. Just a great time to be in the woods. Very relaxing and enjoyable. Plus,.. you can actually watch deer in some solitude. Thats the same reason i enjoy turkey hunting also. I like being there as the woods start there spring green. Those are just great times to be 1 with nature.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

Good post DC, I agree.

 

[fishboy1]

IS a bow hunter a better hunter? What about a trophy hunter?

Who cares. That only matters to people with ego problems.

I wish there was a Boone&crackpot category for who had the most fun.

 

[BSK]

I wish there was a Boone&crackpot category for who had the most fun.

Now that would be cool!

 

[fishboy1]

I wish there was a Boone&crackpot category for who had the most fun.

Now that would be cool!

Maybe we should have a Tndeer contest next year. Best "fun hunting" story wins something.

 

[Boone 58]

I use all weapons of choice offered by the seasons and i cant understand people who only use one form of weapon wanting to control the seasons/limits to enhance their limited desire to hunt based on the weapons they choose. I like it all and plan to participate in all. I would like to see more hunting opportunities given on wma's during the two late weeks of bowhunting.

 

[bowriter]

"But would it be a hypocrisy for a bowhunter to consider himself a better hunter on one hand, while on the other hand stating that standards for considering a buck a "trophy" should be lower for bowhunters? And should we elite bowhunters be given additional buck tags since we are such special hunters?"

That right there is pure wisdom. No matter equipment you use, the deer is dead. IMHO there is only one reason for different seasons.

It is called revenue. Bowhunters do not deserve any special consideration, nor do mzl hunters, nor do rifle hunters. I enjoy the archery season because of the weather and relative quiet of the woods. But not once the 35 years I have been bowhunting did I think I needed any special treatment.

HOWEVER!!!! IN some states and provinces, it is illegal to hunt with a bow during a firearm season. That I do oppose.

 

[Mike Belt]

Wes...I won't get into a debate over "special seasons" simply because I'm probably biased. I love to hunt all of them for differing reasons. With my track record (lol) I'm obviously not there simply to kill a deer but at the same time I like an optimal chance; especially during the optimal time frame.

I question limits of X number of deer per person. I'd hate to know TWRA is basing their forecast numbers dependant on each individual person taking X number of deer. As it stands now they're basically doing the same only on average.

 

[TN RDG RNR]

Nice post Wes ALMOST made me feel good about giving up hunting days and lowering bag limits. Isnt that what this thread is really all about?

Maybe we would be better to simply have a single annual "deer" season, each hunter using whatever weapon he so chooses, each hunter being allowed "x" number of deer?

I am not opposed to private land QDM do whatever you want on your ground and I will do the same, but this is why I resist mandated QDM and urge others that like the fact that Tennessee is a state that offers something for ALL types of hunters with plenty of opportunity and time to get out and enjoy the sport of whitetail deer hunting to do the same. It is always about lowering bag limits, shortening seasons and restrictions, of course for our own good and the health of the herd.

Hunters will always have differences we are human, no 2 people are exactly alike.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

In order for people to get a full understanding of deer hunting in Tn they need to hunt public land on a regular basis. Hunting private land and controlled leases people get out of touch of what a regular hunter has to go through. Hunting public hunting ground exclusively is not easy. After doing this I think more hunters would understand and appreciate why hunters enjoy separate seasons and quota hunts.

 

[BSK]

Really, all I'm concerned about is everyone getting to hunt at least the four best weeks around the peak of the rut with their weapon of choice. The buck age structure continues to slowly improve across most of the state. I want hunters to have the opportunity to hunt the most likely times to be successful on these older bucks all of us are helping to produce.

Of course, this concept would be hard for the TWRA to implement due to the wide range of peak breeding dates across TN. They can range from the first week of November in northcentral TN to the 2nd or 3rd week in December in far Southwest TN.

 

[BSK]

In order for people to get a full understanding of deer hunting in Tn they need to hunt public land on a regular basis. Hunting private land and controlled leases people get out of touch of what a regular hunter has to go through. Hunting public hunting ground exclusively is not easy. After doing this I think more hunters would understand and appreciate why hunters enjoy separate seasons and quota hunts.

I agree to a certain extent richman. However, the survey data suggest the vast majority of deer hunters in TN hunt private land at least some of the time. I think far more deer hunting is done on private land than public.

 

[Radar]

In order for people to get a full understanding of deer hunting in Tn they need to hunt public land on a regular basis. Hunting private land and controlled leases people get out of touch of what a regular hunter has to go through. Hunting public hunting ground exclusively is not easy. After doing this I think more hunters would understand and appreciate why hunters enjoy separate seasons and quota hunts.

I agree to a certain extent richman. However, the survey data suggest the vast majority of deer hunters in TN hunt private land at least some of the time. I think far more deer hunting is done on private land than public.

It is one thing to own your own land and hunt it exclusively under a controlled environment . It's a whole different ball game when hunting a small tract of private land that a hunter doesn't own and is shared by other hunters and pressured from neighboring hunters .

I have also been on some leases that got more pressure than nearby WMA's during gun season .

 

[BSK]

True Radar, but I still don't think the WMA experience is the best example of the "average" hunting experience. I think the experience you mention--property someone has permission to hunt but doesn't own--is the most common experience.