Bow tuning question; again

[woodsman87]

Is there ever a bow that will just not shoot fixed blades correctly?
I let a guy "supposedly" tune mine, and when I got home, it still wouldn't shoot fixed blade muzzys correctly. Field points and expandles shoot as good as a rifle it seems, from 10-40 yards.
Muzzys and cheap grizzlys from Academy are all I have tried shooting as of yet.
I am sure all fixed blades do not fly the same. Do yall think I should try a few different fixed blades? I don't have a problem with expandables because they work and shoot really good. They are just so dang expensive, and I don't think they work as well.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

When a bow and shooter combination are perfectly tuned it should shoot anything out of it and hit the same, although I have seen that Muzzys can be somewhat "finicky". If you wanted to try another fixed head try G5 Strikers...they have a small ferrule and fly the same as field points most of the time. That being said, there are many things that will cause what you are describing: obviously a out of tune bow or out of tune parts, arrows that aren't cut square or are "wobbly", broadheads that aren't true and of course there is a human element, i.e. form issues, to consider as well.

A few questions to ask. What type of bow and rest are you using? Spin test each arrow and eliminate the wobbly ones. I always recommend people number each arrow that way you can identify a flyer and remove it from the starting lineup (i.e. if #3 always hits off target, it gets designated a practice arrow).

 

[woodsman87]

Mathews Drenaline. It is a Trophy Ridge drop away rest. I tried another broadhead out of it, I just had it in my box of extra stuff, don't remember the name, but it was an NAP of some sort, very small broadhead. It shot smoothe, but to the right, which was expected. I think I may go with them.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

If that hit off of your fp's as well, then you have something wrong. What arrows are you using and what draw weight? Did you spin test them?

You can check the timing on that yourself to verify that it is indeed in time. There are two small 3/32nd holes in the cam: one on the outer edge and one by the center�take two small finishing nails and tie a string to one of them and place that one in the outer hole and the other string in the center one and lay the string over the middle one.....that string should run parallel to your bowstring. If it isn't parallel then the cam is out of time and will need a twist added or removed from the buss cable. Next lay an arrow against the idler wheel and measure how far the arrow is off the string at the nock point to check cam lean....the guideline is 1/8th inch off the string (the best way, and most true way, is to have someone look at how the idler is oriented to the string at full draw). Measure from the center of the arrow to the side of the riser.....it should be in the 11-13/16ths range.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask or you can pm me as well.

 

[DixieCrafter]

I highly recommend you "tune" your own bow, because no one else can effectively do that for you! If you need help with the set-up and tune I'm sure there are folks around that are willing.

In many ways I feel broadhead design, specifically fixed blades have lagged behind in their technology. Case in point, being the rise and popularity of mechanicals which dominate in today's market. A few short years ago the opposite was true. Fixed blade designs just haven't kept pace with the faster bows and rapidly changing arrow materials. Let's face a lot of shooters don't want to spend a lot of time tuning their set-up and the mechs make a lot of sense to this group!

There is one fixed blade head of recent design that flies to the same point of impact as my fieldpoint and mechs do, and that is the Slick Trick 100 gr. Magnum and it's tough too!

 

[Big Gun]

I agree with the Slick Tricks. They fly very true to field points.

 

[Crow Terminator]

Any tuned bow will shoot fixed blades with field points. The Slick Tricks aren't magical broadheads either. The "secret" is in the diameter. They are small, low profile. You could get the same flight from a Muzzy MX3 or 4 series, WAC 'Em 100, G5 Striker, etc. They all share the same characteristics of smaller diameter and low profile design. I just think the big plus of the Slick Tricks are the blade sharpness out of the pack.

 

[UTGrad]

I just think the big plus of the Slick Tricks are the blade sharpness out of the pack.

X1000

It never ceases to amaze me how scary sharp Slick Trick blades are out of the package.

 

[Crow Terminator]

X1000

It never ceases to amaze me how scary sharp Slick Trick blades are out of the package.

I wear two scars on my thumb and index finger from a Trick that I was taking out of an arrow insert that had sort of seized up. With a lot of other broadheads, you can get by doing that with your fingers because they really aren't sharp. I found out right quick that if you have a Slick Trick do that...you best use a broadhead wrench or pair of pliers...if you do use your fingers, have something ready to catch some blood for when that thing breaks loose from the insert and turns.

 

[DixieCrafter]

Any tuned bow will shoot fixed blades with field points. The Slick Tricks aren't magical broadheads either. The "secret" is in the diameter. They are small, low profile. You could get the same flight from a Muzzy MX3 or 4 series, WAC 'Em 100, G5 Striker, etc. They all share the same characteristics of smaller diameter and low profile design. I just think the big plus of the Slick Tricks are the blade sharpness out of the pack.

Any tuned bow will shoot field points and broadheads to the same point of impact you say? Don't think so!!! Maybe if the bow speed is below 280, but these hotter set-ups well above 300 fps will be harder and harder to find a fixed blade that flies well!!! Muzzy, Thunderheads, and such won't do it

 

[UTGrad]

I have found if you can get your rig to Bareshaft tune you can screw on just about any broadhead and go hunting. If you can get a Bareshaft to hit with Fletched shafts at 20 yards your fixed blade POI will be very close to field points. You might have to make small tweaks to the rest or sight.

 

[bowhunter163]

Any tuned bow will shoot fixed blades with field points. The Slick Tricks aren't magical broadheads either. The "secret" is in the diameter. They are small, low profile. You could get the same flight from a Muzzy MX3 or 4 series, WAC 'Em 100, G5 Striker, etc. They all share the same characteristics of smaller diameter and low profile design. I just think the big plus of the Slick Tricks are the blade sharpness out of the pack.

Any tuned bow will shoot field points and broadheads to the same point of impact you say? Don't think so!!! Maybe if the bow speed is below 280, but these hotter set-ups well above 300 fps will be harder and harder to find a fixed blade that flies well!!! Muzzy, Thunderheads, and such won't do it

disagree .

 

[Crow Terminator]

Dixie -- You are wrong. Very wrong. Several of my buddies are shooting crossbows in the 350-380 fps range with fixed blade broadheads...zero problems with erratic flight. So if it works at those speeds...then the same should (and does) hold true for a compound bow. A well tuned compound will shoot em straight. The secret is finding somebody that knows how to tune one well and doesn't try to bandaid fix the tuning problems. I know several western hunters that are shooting setups over 300 fps with different fixed blade broadheads out to 60-70 yards. Their 100 yd groups with broadheads are better than some folks at 20-30. My own setup should be right at 300 and I have 3 different brands of fixed blades on my arrows of different cut diameters, and all 3 are shooting together out to 45 yds.

 

[TheAirMan]

Any tuned bow will shoot fixed blades with field points. The Slick Tricks aren't magical broadheads either. The "secret" is in the diameter. They are small, low profile. You could get the same flight from a Muzzy MX3 or 4 series, WAC 'Em 100, G5 Striker, etc. They all share the same characteristics of smaller diameter and low profile design. I just think the big plus of the Slick Tricks are the blade sharpness out of the pack.

Any tuned bow will shoot field points and broadheads to the same point of impact you say? Don't think so!!! Maybe if the bow speed is below 280, but these hotter set-ups well above 300 fps will be harder and harder to find a fixed blade that flies well!!! Muzzy, Thunderheads, and such won't do it

False.

 

[DixieCrafter]

Crow,

We're just gonna have to agree that we disagree on this subject! But anytime you want to show me how well your hand held hand released finely tuned set-up shoots fixed blade broadheads at 100 yds I'll be glad to watch and measure group size!

 

[jb357]

If your broadheads are grouping well just not hitting where your practice points are why not just move the sight. Or if you want them to hit the same just move the arrow rest a hair left or right a hair and they will match up.

Id be willing to put my 100 yard broadhead groups up against just about anyones 100 yard freehand rifle groups.

 

[Cbutl]

Slick tricks are the sharpest broadheads I've ever had in hand. do NOT tighten them without a tool or you'll cut yourself without even knowing

 

[Fordman]

Crow would be correct on this issue. After setting up and tuning hundreds of bows I have never had issues getting fixed broadheads to fly with field points. There is more to it than tuning the bow though. Arrow shaft spine, arrow end cut square, insert seat, and a few other items can cause you some grief.
In will agree that no one can tune a bow like the person shooting it daily if they take the time to learn to do so effectively. There was a time when I got a pack of new Muzzy heads that just would not fly with my fp's and after re tuning, and a major headache I found that pack of broad heads was the problem. Took them back and got a new pack that hit right with my field points.

 

[Unicam]

Crow would be correct on this issue. After setting up and tuning hundreds of bows I have never had issues getting fixed broadheads to fly with field points. There is more to it than tuning the bow though. Arrow shaft spine, arrow end cut square, insert seat, and a few other items can cause you some grief.
In will agree that no one can tune a bow like the person shooting it daily if they take the time to learn to do so effectively. There was a time when I got a pack of new Muzzy heads that just would not fly with my fp's and after re tuning, and a major headache I found that pack of broad heads was the problem. Took them back and got a new pack that hit right with my field points.

I would agree, my Drenalin shoots whatever I put on the arrow like a field point. No issues with fixed blades vs mechanicals, they all shoot straight. All of my issues have been bow set up, usually the rest. That being said I shot for a long time without a properly set up bow and used mechanicals so I would get the same point of impact as field tips. I thought I just could not "tune" my fixed blades correctly. Once I learned how to set my bow up and adjusted my rest properly my bow was smoother, MUCH quieter and shoots any arrow that is properly set up perfectly. Making sure you spin test any arrow set up is important to making sure the broadhead and arrow are straight and will fly like a field tip. I did have an arrow (my #3) that never would fly right, always a floater. I retired that arrow to the garbage can, problem solved. I learned a lot about bow and arrow set ups by reading this forum over the years. Thanks to Fordman, Fence Post, Crow T and a few others that always share their knowledge in here.

 

[woodsman87]

The bow tuner I use is equivelant to a crooked car mechanic or an electrician, plumber, whatever

Some guys are rip offs, like the one I used. I'm not totally ignorant about a car engine or something so mechanics can't rip me off, but as far as getting a bow to shoot right, I am totally ignorant.

I am just too far to drive to the place yall describe at energy wave, and don't want to ship my bow. (maybe later)

I will just wait until Muzzleloader season to hunt again.

You guys have taught me alot about my bow and I appreciate it. I know for a fact that I am a good shot with my bow and have good form, because I am good with practice points. Fixed blades though, many differnt brands, do not work. I have grown tired of it and I guess I will just stick with what works in expandables.

 

[woodsman87]

It just pisses me off to pay to have something done and it not be done the right way. My favorite local guy closed, so I had to resort to the one that I didn't want to go to, but was desperate to shoot a tuned bow so I took it anyways. I will never go again.

I think he knows what he is doing, but I get the feel he is too high and mighty to take the time to help average bow hunters like me because I don't shoot in competitions and bow hunt year round and out west and for turkeys that I am not good enough to have a properly tuned bow.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[Unicam]

It just pisses me off to pay to have something done and it not be done the right way. My favorite local guy closed, so I had to resort to the one that I didn't want to go to, but was desperate to shoot a tuned bow so I took it anyways. I will never go again.

I think he knows what he is doing, but I get the feel he is too high and mighty to take the time to help average bow hunters like me because I don't shoot in competitions and bow hunt year round and out west and for turkeys that I am not good enough to have a properly tuned bow.
Sorry for the rant.

Get on you tube and watch some vids. Its easier to do than you think and with some trial and error you can be done with it in a half day or less.

 

[Fordman]

The bow tuner I use is equivelant to a crooked car mechanic or an electrician, plumber, whatever

Some guys are rip offs, like the one I used. I'm not totally ignorant about a car engine or something so mechanics can't rip me off, but as far as getting a bow to shoot right, I am totally ignorant.

I am just too far to drive to the place yall describe at energy wave, and don't want to ship my bow. (maybe later)

I will just wait until Muzzleloader season to hunt again.

You guys have taught me alot about my bow and I appreciate it. I know for a fact that I am a good shot with my bow and have good form, because I am good with practice points. Fixed blades though, many differnt brands, do not work. I have grown tired of it and I guess I will just stick with what works in expandables.

Where are you located? I am in southern middle mmyself

 

[Unicam]

The bow tuner I use is equivelant to a crooked car mechanic or an electrician, plumber, whatever

Some guys are rip offs, like the one I used. I'm not totally ignorant about a car engine or something so mechanics can't rip me off, but as far as getting a bow to shoot right, I am totally ignorant.

I am just too far to drive to the place yall describe at energy wave, and don't want to ship my bow. (maybe later)

I will just wait until Muzzleloader season to hunt again.

You guys have taught me alot about my bow and I appreciate it. I know for a fact that I am a good shot with my bow and have good form, because I am good with practice points. Fixed blades though, many differnt brands, do not work. I have grown tired of it and I guess I will just stick with what works in expandables.

Where are you located? I am in southern middle mmyself

and a good Bowsmith!

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I

Id be willing to put my 100 yard broadhead groups up against just about anyones 100 yard freehand rifle groups.

:laugh: Where do I sign up for this?

TNDeerGuy helped me over the phone salvage my season. These guys can really help you out. My advice would be: No matter what your experience, don't overlook the human element. :grin:

Thanks again for the help and look forward to things calming down so I can get out to shoot with you, and pick up a new grip :whistle:

 

[UTGrad]

My goal for 2014 is to get a press and arrow saw. With my Hoyt tuning can be done by adjusting twists in the yoke. I want to be able to make small adjustments if needed, install peeps, install new strings, and build arrows. A draw board will also be in the future.

I want to get to where I can buy a bow from a dealer, thank them and walk back out the door and do all the work myself. It's just part of the progression as an archer.

 

[woodsman87]

I don't mind trying to learn how to tune my bow myself, but I do not want to mess it up worse and ruin my bow or get it worse than what it already is. I have been reading about it and it is talking about twisting the cable and stuff, I don't want to mess with all of that. That is why I am willing to pay someone that I trust to do it the right way. I can be easily fooled with these bows since I know nothing about tuning and timing them.

 

[woodsman87]

I tried to get on Archery talk and somebody had some pics posted of what the timing holes look like on a drenaline, but the pics aint showing up.
Also got on the Mathews website to look at pics of the timing holes, their pics aren't showing up either.

 

[TNDeerGuy]

I tried to get on Archery talk and somebody had some pics posted of what the timing holes look like on a drenaline, but the pics aint showing up.
Also got on the Mathews website to look at pics of the timing holes, their pics aren't showing up either.

I just saw this and ran outside and snapped this....sorry for the poor demonstration of pics. This is the Reezen cam, but the Drenalin's cam timing holes will be in between my index and pinky and the two q-tip ends. In the pic there is not a hole on top of my index finger, but on yours there will be. They changed the timing window on the newer Mathews so you don't have to do what you going to have to do�the newer models have the big window to the left of my index finger and if the cable perfectly bisects that window the cam is in time. You have my number if you need it.

 

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

I've found over the years tuning bows can be frustrating at times. My best advice is don't shoot too many arrows. I have found my accuracy goes down relatively quick if I shoot more than about 20 or so arrows.

I start out fresh again the next day when my muscles recover.