Blood Trailing deer.

[102]

For those of you who may not have a whole bunch of experience on this topic, and as a refresher to us all, here are a few thoughts based on experience from a combined 150 years of deer hunting (in my group) and hundreds of blood trails.

First of all, allow me to suggest that almost all of these scenarios are arrow wounds and recoveries. Not to say that there aren't also a whole bunch of muzzleloader and rifle kills mixed in for experience. Mostly, unless otherwise posted, our discussion will concern blood loss, and/or infection, as the primary killer of these deer.

Note that high speed bullets kill animals with not only blood loss, but also hydrostatic shock. In layman terms...the bullet hits the animal at such a high rate of speed that it sends a "shock wave" (think ripple in a pool) through the animal that causes massive tissue damage.

A broadhead slices veins and arteries which bleed and cause shock from blood loss and eventually death.
The more blood loss the quicker the death.

[b]A double lung[/b] shot deer has extreme difficulty getting oxygen to the blood and brain and quickly looses consciousness and death comes quickly. MOST of the time, you will likely see or hear the deer crash.

It is possible, in VERY RARE cases, (I have witnessed a few) that a deer can survive a double lung shot with both entry and exit wounds prevalent.

A thoraxic surgeon friend who has seen this himself in deer (and people), explains that IF a deer has the right mix of fat and hide, and has its body turned or twisted in such a way that upon returning itself to "normal" position this hair and hide "covers" the wounds, it is possible for the animal to survive for a length of time. Possibly even recovering from the wound.

In my line of work we call this an occlusive dressing.

more to come later

 

[catman529]

One of the members here, Gil, lost a doe a couple seasons ago that showed up on trail cam with huge scars from what appeared to be a double lung shot with a rage broadhead. Nobody could figure out how she survived.

 

[Hollar Hunter]

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[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

they will amaze you sometimes

 

[tickweed]

I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.

 

[102]

I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.

Trust me on this tickweed, I WAS completely certain you were right. Afterall, if a double lung deer does survive, chances are you won't know because you won't find it, RIGHT???

I just could not be convinced that a double lung hit deer could survive.

And then one day (and several hundred kills later) it happened.

I made the "perfect" double lung shot and it survived. Only to be killed later by a friend later.

Now I have seen this repeated.

And I have seen this on video and game cams.

RARE...but true!

 

[hunter0925]

I killed a 8 pt a few years ago that had been shot during bow season. This was toward the end of rifle so I would say it was late December. The buck had been hit hi but not out of the vitals. I would say it would have definitely hit lung and he was making it just fine.

 

[102]

I only made mention of the double lung survivor to emphasize this: when blood trailing deer, always remember there are no absolutes.
We have seen double lung shot deer survive, and gut shot deer die within seconds.

Speaking of gut shot deer:
These type wounds are probably the most challenging to recover. These wounds are also, IMO, completely unacceptable. I am not proud at all to say I have accidentally shot several deer through the guts. And I have also been with many others who also accidentally gut shot deer. I would never encourage gut shooting any animal. It is a painful, long, and suffering death.
When I started bow hunting, I did not know how to recover this type wound, and lost a few, only to find them days or weeks later, by the smell or by seeing buzzards.

In almost all cases, gut shot deer are DEAD deer. They simply can't survive the infection (septosis) caused by bowel and or stomach contents spilled out into the body cavity. The biggest problem with these animals is that they have no idea what is going on. And if need be, especially in the first few minutes of the injury, they can travel a long way in mere seconds, leaving behind little or no sign.

We generally classify a gut shot deer as any deer shot behind the diaphram. In fact, I believe it is a safer bet to consider a deer that has been hit in front of the diaphram, in the chest cavity, where the arrow exited out the guts affecting only one lung, as a gut shot deer.
Gut shot deer should be allowed to expire. Trying to get close enough for a second shot and risking jumping the animal, never to see it again, is probably not a good option for most of us.

I know of no one who is capable of trailing a deer through the woods and field without that animal leaving behind at least a little bit of blood. And I have seen MANY gut shot deer that do not leave behind any blood. Or bile.
I am certain there are those hunters/trackers who are very capable of trailing a wounded deer by track without the presence of blood. I have just never met this hunter yet.
I suspect John Sloan (bowriter)may be one of these rare individuals as he insists that gut shot deer be pursued much sooner than I.

Often times, when an arrow passes through a deer in the guts, it enters and exits through areas of the body that contain a lot of fat. This fat, skin, and hair will commonly cover these exit and entrance wounds, in essence closing the holes and preventing further fluid loss. This makes blood trailing much more difficult if not impossible. Especially when one considers that there may be very little major blood carrying arteries and veins cut by the broadhead in the first place.

We have seen gut shot deer live over 20 hours. I have recovered gut shot deer as long as 18 hours after the shot and still have to shoot the animal a second time.

As always, there are exceptions. The stomach has an artery running through it called the pyloric. Slice through this artery and you will likely see this deer fall. It is a RARE shot.

Also, there will often be blood at the exit wound site on the ground.

more to come!

 

[Winchester]

Good posts as always 102.

We have seen gut shot deer live over 20 hours. I have recovered gut shot deer as long as 18 hours after the shot and still have to shoot the animal a second time.

I shot a mature buck a couple years ago in ILL. about an hour before dark one afternoon. Shot looked good but his reaction after the shot and being able to watch him for a few mins before he left my sight told me to back out! 18 hours later I found his bed 70 yards from where I shot him, which at first glance didn't look like he had bled much. After close examination the leaves/ground under the top layer of leaves was actually saturated with blood, almost like a sponge effect. He had only went another 70 yards where I found him, still alive! Although very weak he could still lift his head and look at me anytime I got closer than 20 yards. Instead of turning it in to a dangerous situation, I called my Dad who was hunting not far on the opposite side of the deer, and had him sneak in and put another arrow in him in his bed while he was pre occupied with watching me.
My autopsy when field dressing him showed exactly what I thought, center of one lung and Liver, hole as big as a quarter through both with a complete pass through.
While not a perfect shot, this deer especially being left alone, should have been dead long before I got to him!
For reference I shot him with a 100 grn Slick trick magnum head, which was scary sharp and zipped right through this 215 lb field dressed deer.
Just reiterating 102's point that there is no guarantee with any shot and each situation has to be handled on its own.
For reference, I have never met the individual who can track a deer through the woods on tracks alone either! If they aren't bleeding or tearing up the leaves, you cant track them.

 

[catman529]

I shot this buck 7 yards from the tree while he was moving. Had I made a noise to get him to stop, the shot would not have been 5 inches too far back. I did not cut into him to see where the arrow went, because I could already smell the exit hole in the belly. Keith (geezer) helped me out the morning after I shot him, and recovered him 24 hours after the shot, stone dead. He probably did not live long after the shot, but I did not have the experience to head straight for water like the deer and Keith did so I spent 8 hours in grown up CRP type field losing the blood trail. There was liver blood on the ground and a blood-soaked arrow, and then it dried up and the trail was lost in the thicket. I suspect the arrow probably nicked the back of the right lung, went through the liver and stomach and out the belly. It was a 7 yard chip shot but the buck was moving and I did not even think to stop him before shooting (it was my first archery buck and blood was pumping).

Entry-



Exit-

 

[benellivol]

I double lunged a buck that never bled a drop. I saw and heard him fall about 20 yards from where I shot him.

No blood on the ground or in the truck, but when I hung him up by the hind legs, it looked like a water faucet of blood coming out of his nose and mouth.

While I was quartering him up (I start at the back and work my way around to the guts seeing as how it takes about 10 minutes to recover the animal before butchering) the lungs filled up like balloons with blood. It was strange.

 

[102]

Winchester,
Interesting how you used your dad to help recover your deer. We too, have had to use similar tactics to make certain terminal deer did not get "lost" after having been gut shot.

I will post more as the days go on closer to season opener.
There is much to be discussed and it is my hope that others, like have been so far, chime in to relate their experiences.

Here is a quick bit of info. If you are not doing post shot autopsies as Winchester described, you are missing out on GREAT info. Be involved with every blood trail you can. And then help with every autopsy you can. It is amazing to find out why and how that wound killed that deer.

It is my unpopular opinion that the fastest killing shot in a deer is the kidney shot. I have never shot a deer here on purpose and would never attempt to make this shot. But I have, during autopsy, discovered why that deer crashed and died so quickly. It was because I sliced the kidneys in half.

However, the kidneys are VERY small, about the size of 2 golf balls, and are very difficult to judge location at varying angles.

Another low percentage, yet VERY deadly shot is the femural artery shot. The aorta runs just under the spine and branches into two large arteries just in front of the hips. Here, these branches form two arteries called the femural arteries which run along the inside of the rear legs (femur bones). IMO, this is a lucky shot, like the spine shot or kidney shot or pyloric artery shot. ANd should never be attempted on purpose.
Often deer will not get out of sight with this shot.

Here is another observation we have concluded after hundreds of kills. It has become obvious that if a deer is "spooked" upon receiving a wound, it tends to run faster, farther, and harder than if it were shot while relaxed.

Examples of "spooking" a deer include but are not limited to:
deer watching you shoot it
deer hearing a loud bow or human sound upon release
deer being hit in the hard bone (often a "whack" sound associated with the arrow hitting the bone)
deer hearing a broadhead blade open loudly upon entry
arrow passing through and making a loud noise when arrow stops
arrow sticking out of deer and striking limbs etc as it runs off
other deer being around the shot deer and causing a "stampede" affect whereby deer keep running from fear

Remember, let this happen on a gut shot and you are in for a long, tough, trail.

 

[Winchester]

As always 102's info is on the money imo. A badly spooked deer will travel much greater distance in a much faster fashion most times after being shot. Totally relaxed deer seem to travel much less distance. Ive killed a few with complete pass thrus, that didn't even hit a rib, that never knew they were shot, and actually just fell over while still somewhat feeding!
I also agree the Femural artery is about as fast a death as they come from an arrow. I had one broadside at 15 yards once and my arrow struck an unseen tiny branch and hit him square in the ham angling down. I about threw up when the arrow hit, he didn't go 40 yards and was stone dead when he hit the ground. This was many yrs ago and I was bewildered, and upon getting down there was a blood trail literally 2 feet wide for the 40 yards he went, totally bleeding out from a clean cut of the Femural artery.
Spooked and even tense deer are much more likely to cause a bad shot as well when archery hunting, as they have a much higher tendency to 'jump the string' which is just a reaction to the noise of the shot, causing bad hits many times! I will make every effort to let a calm deer stop on his own for a shot vs trying to 'stop' him where I want to shoot him.
Learning when to draw and shoot is a huge link to consistent success with archery shots imo!

 

[MattR]

I've had a spine shot and it dropped him he didn't take 1 step, so we got out out of the stand, went to the truck, and gave him time to die because he was still struggling when we had walked away. When we got back about an I went to grab him, he was still alive but could only move from his front legs up. Needless to say he wasn't too happy and I ended up having to struggle like hell with him and cut his throat. I assume it barely got his spine. I hate that it happened, I don't like anything that isn't a clean kill. But the moral of the story is that it tought me first hand when I was a teen how careful you have to be with shot placement, and even when things go very well, they still might end up ugly.

 

[102]

Winchester wrote
"I will make every effort to let a calm deer stop on his own for a shot vs trying to 'stop' him where I want to shoot him.
Learning when to draw and shoot is a huge link to consistent success with archery shots imo!"

Point well made. The way I have seen many hunters stop the deer for that shot is one of those human sounds I was referring too. I can't tell you how many times I've had to stop a deer by a bleat that ended up being too loud, or hoarse, or just odd that ended up spooking the deer after the shot.

 

[102]

THE HEART SHOT DEER.

I do not understand why, but heart shot deer commonly take of like a bat out of hades.
And talk about a "stand up blood trail". I have color blind friends who can follow these. Not that much tracking is usually necessary. We almost always see, or hear, the deer fall.

When shooting a deer through the heart from an elevated position, it is not uncommon to also affect one or both lungs as well.

 

[Winchester]

The heart is pretty low and I agree, unless your shot is very low and or your stand isn't very high, you will hit other vitals with most heart shots. Heart shot deer will actually live a lil longer and travel a lil farther than most double lung hits IMO. Which both are very short trails and easy tracking as 102 said. I LOVE to bloodtrail deer and have learned a great deal about deer just from going on every tracking job I could since I was 12! Which is now in the hundreds of bloodtrails.

 

[catman529]

Heart shot deer... I had 2 perfect heart shots last year. One was a big doe at 5 yards from the tree. Hit one lung and straight through the middle of the heart. She went 50-60 yards.

The other was a doe fawn (late season) 10 yards from the tree. only hit the heart, I saw the blood coming out when it turned and ran, watched it run about 40 yards before stumbling and tipping over.

 

[DirtyBear0311]

I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.

 

[catman529]

I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.

I love blood trailing too. I almost prefer it if I don't see the deer drop, just so I can continue "the hunt" and track down the animal. But I guess it's cool watching them drop in sight too.

 

[bowriter]

I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.

They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.

 

[102]

I don't know, but it seems very unlikely to me that a deer could survive a double lung shot with an arrow. No calling you out 102, but with todays broadheads, not much chance. Maybe one lung yes, but both, the partys over.

They can and do. I am hoping for six decades of hunting experience. Next year will make 60-years I have been hunting deer. In addition, I can add almost 30-years of guiding experience. I will not be so bold as to say I have seen it all. However, this I have seen. I have seen more than one double lung hit survive to be killed at a later date and the DL verified. I have seen one pass-through heart shot with a 125gr Thunderhead, survive for three days. It was then killed by another hunter who said it showed no sign of any injury. That too was verified. I did a necropsy and closely examined the heart. It was without question a pass-through and healing well.

If animal is not pushed, i.e. shot and left alone to do as it wishes, many survive shots we would never think possible. I have conservatively blood trailed over 1,000 animals. I have seen a great deal, enough that nothing much surprises me anymore.

Thanks for the input John, your experience on this subject is invaluable.

 

[cozy23]

I almost wanna say that I'm more excited while blood trailing a deer than I am from the shot. I guess it's just the anticipation and wondering if ill find it or if the blood will just run dry.

I love blood trailing too. I almost prefer it if I don't see the deer drop, just so I can continue "the hunt" and track down the animal. But I guess it's cool watching them drop in sight too.

I like the trailing too but there is something so amazing about watching your arrow zip through and the deer never know what happened, then get to watch it topple over. I will take either situation, short trail or fall on sight.

 

[102]

The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.

 

[DirtyBear0311]

The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.

I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?

 

[102]

The liver shot deer:

The liver is not the biggest organ in the body. The skin is. (LOL)

But the liver shot is one of those areas that get my utmost scrutiny when I have a hunter in camp who suspects he has made that shot.

I have seen one lung and liver hit deer live and travel GREAT distance over considerable time. If there is any positive associated with this shot it would have to be that there is frequently a decent blood trail to follow. Not great, but decent.

With that being said, I have also seen strictly liver shot deer live a long time and leave extremely little blood trail behind, almost like a strictly gut shot deer.

On the other hand, I have also seen liver shot deer fall within sight.

It all depends on LUCK of wether the arrow hit an artery or not.

This blood is often dark, and smelly.

And since the liver lies very close to the stomach, there may be "coffee like" substance on the arrow or in the blood trail.

I've liver shot deer before and had that coffee bean like matter show up. What exactly is that?

It is the pre or partially digested food from the stomach. Sometimes you can tell that it is acorns or corn.

 

[102]

Next time you gut a deer, pay close attention to how the lungs kinda wrap around the heart. The heart hangs down below the lungs a bit, but the lungs are above the heart, and actually pretty far below the spine.

Right next to, and actually separating the chest cavity (where the lungs are) from the abdominal cavity (containing stomach, liver, intestines, kidneys, bladder, etc.) is a thin muscle stretching from side to side and top to bottom...the diaphram.

The stomach and liver are right next to this diaphram and actually lay upon each other.

Many times I have double lung shot a deer early in the morning after the deer had obviously gorged itself all night on either corn or acorns. (not uncommon when you are hunting pre-rut and deer are heavily feeding preparing for the distraction of the rut when feeding may be very random).
And even though my arrow obviously did pass through both lungs, at no angle, there would be this "coffee granular" matter all over the arrow.

Autopsy reveals that the arrow actually passed through both lungs AND the stomach, which was absolutely BLOATED with food and putting pressure on the diaphram and actually pushing up into what would normally be chest cavity area. (btw, I have felt like this many a time after a hearty, glutonous, Thanksgiving meal).

 

[102]

So what is the answer to "marginal" hits or shots on arrow shot deer?
After hundreds of blood trails, I am sure I have not "seen it all", but I do believe WE have seen MOST scenarios. And in so doing, there is a common thread. WHEN IN DOUBT,BACK OUT.

I can't say how many times I have said this, but it has been a BUNCH. "I am not sure where the arrow went in, but I KNOW where it came out." (usually guts) "So let's give this deer some time."

In all the years (combined in our group this is over 150 years experience) and all the blood trails, well over 500, probably closer to 1000, we have lost only a hanfull of deer to coyotes or spoilage.
But before we started backing out, our loss rate was much higher.

I always ask the hunter who I am helping, "would you rather take a CHANCE on spoiled or eaten (by coyotes) deer meat yet KNOW for certain what happened to your deer (where you hit it, etc.), or push the deer now and take a chance on NEVER knowing for sure what happened because you did not give the animal a chance to lie down and die?"

I have NEVER asked this question where a hunter answered he would rather push the deer and take a chance on losing it, when that deer was a big buck.
IMO, BOTH buck and doe should be treated equal when blood trailing.

 

[deerhunter10]

I shot an 8 last year with the muzzle loader perfect double lung shot at 50 yards and we found 1 little bitty drop of blood. He ran about 40 yards. I saw this happen with one of my buddies and uncle hunting with a muzzle loader and once with a rifle perfect shot little to no blood. I've learned every single feet acts a little different when you shoot them. Although I'm not a huge fan and a lot of other people on here aren't a huge fan. I do believe that hunting shows hav helped with deer recovery. By always emphasising if in doubt back out. And it is a great quote to track by. And certainly use it. As said before if you bump a gut hit or even liver hit deer your chances of recovering that deer is highly unlikely. You got to have patience trailing a deer as you do hunting them.

 

[102]

So many times I hear hunters say, "it was warm or even hot weather so we decided to keep looking".
Usually this is a HUGE mistake.

Remember, deer that are hit in marginal areas, (stomach, intestines, one lung, liver/stomach, even lung/liver), often do not die from blood loss, they die from septic shock or blood poisoning. And this take HOURS.
It is common for these animals to run off after the shot for a few yards, frequently less than 200, and lie down.
We rarely find these animals by tracking blood. Most often it is from walking grid patterns.

Here is a common mis-conception about the warm weather and gut shot deer.
"It is warm so the meat will spoil faster".

Actually, it is warm so the deer will live a lot longer than if it were freezing. The injured deer will often find a comfortable bed and lie down. It will most likely be watching its back trail. Approach this animal and it will see you and slip off long before you find its bed if you are early.

If the deer is alive, meat is NOT spoiling. It may be getting bacteria on it, but it is not spoiling. You do, however, need to toss the inside tenders on gut shot deer.

A few years ago, I was sitting over an intersection of trails in Illinois in January. It looked like a spider web from 20 feet up the tree. It was an antlerless hunt
There was still 6-8 inches of snow on the ground from a snow that occurred ten days prior to my hunt. IT WAS COLD. Deer were stressed and hungry. Food sources were scarce and deer were very nocturnal. I opted to hunt close to a road where I knew deer would be eating frozen honeysuckle, or what was left of it.

Right at dark, and against the white ground cover, I began to see movement all over the place. At eighteen yards I zipped an arrow through a small doe. I immediately knew it was a bad hit from the "watermelon" thump and arched back. She only ran about 40 yards and laid down. I watched her well past dark and climbed down taking care to be very quiet.
I walked out knowing coyotes were bad in the area and fully expected to find her stripped carcass the next morning.
(not making excuses here but 8 layers of clothing and a cold body really can have negative affects on your shooting accuracy)

Twelve hours later, I walked straight to the bed where I saw her lay down the eve before and there she was. Unconscious but breathing. I finished her off.
This was TWELVE hours later, a SMALL doe, in below freezing temps on SNOW covered ground.

This is not a pretty story but it demonstrates exactly what I am talking about. And I have seen this many times before, and since. Turns out the shot was side to side through the intestines. Poison killed this deer. The meat was fine however the insider tenders get tossed on all gut shot deer.

Had I not seen this deer, and opted for a night blood trail, I feel certain I would never have recovered this animal.

Again, a gut shot deer by bow, OR GUN, is a terrible thing that should be avoided. But occasionally it happens. Hunt long enough and kill enough deer and it will happen to you.

If it does, maybe you can learn from some of our mistakes. I know we have.